Primer packaging

spacecoast · September 13, 2011, 05:42 AM

Bought 6,000 Federal primers last week... looks like I'll need to rent a storage unit...

F. Guffey · September 13, 2011, 06:41 AM

R. Lee was not happy with Federal, seems they did not donate primers for testing? So, he refused to purchase Federal primers for testing?

In his book R. Lee claimed the Federal primers were more powerful, more powerful than what, I do not know.

After hearing all the scary stories about 'more powerful' primers, Federal redesigned the primer tray to make the more powerful safer to ship and it is only a coincidence the tray for shipping was too large for dumping primers into the Lee hand primer, the saddest part was the user of Lee hand primers could not figure a way to get the primers from the large tray to the smaller round tray, and I suppose if there is a moral to the story Federal did not care what Lee thought about their primers, Me? I still have friends tell me, "don't use Federal primers in a Lee hand primer because they are more powerful, back to me, More-powerful? That is what I want, I want the more powerful primer.

F. Guffey

CowTowner · September 13, 2011, 07:34 AM

I could be wrong because I have been before, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that the reason Lee did not recommend Federal primers for use in his equipment was due to the "softer" material they were made from. They reportedly detonate more often during the seating process than others. Hence one of the reasons for the "Explosion Shield" offered for the Load-Master. http://leeprecision.com/xcart/LM-EXPLOSION-SHIELD.html However, on Page 85 of "Modern Reloading - Second Edition" by Richard Lee, it states only "Do not use Federal primers in a Lee Auto-Prime! Any primer not listed above has not been tested, so you must assume they are unsafe."
It seems Mr. Lee only tested Winchester, CCI and Remington primers prior to publication. Which leaves more than just Federal off the list of tested primers.

I too have a couple thousand Federal primers because during the shortage they were all I could find. I'll be using them to load .45 ACP in the near future on my Lee Load-Master.

spacecoast · September 13, 2011, 07:57 AM

I was warned about using Federal primers in a Lee auto-prime, but I use a hand press anyway to load all mine (not pressing too hard of course). I like the added sensitivity of the hand press, it's easy to tell if a primer is crooked or if you have run into one of those cursed Blazer .45ACPs that use small primers. The Federal primers solved a severe light strike problem I was having with my light-action 686.

wncchester · September 13, 2011, 08:22 AM

Federal primers are no 'softer' than others, they do have a slightly more sensitive priming compoud. They do that to reduce misfires and hangfires - works too. But no good deed goes unpunished, it also inccurs a slightly higher risk of chain fires if one goes off accidentally in storage and use. That's why Fed puts each primer in individual holes in those boxes. I haven't found loading them into primer flippers or Lee's Autoprime tools to be complicated and I've loaded several thousands of Federal in Lee's AutoPrimes with no problem (but I'm not suggesting anyone else do it.)

I've actually found Federal's primer caps appear to be harder or thicker than most others. I have two rifles with slightly oversize firning pin holes and they tend to crater primers at normal pressures but I get no cratering at all with the same charge when using Federals.

Reloading greenhorns intuitively presume a "hot" primer will surely be 'best' but if hot primers had any consistant advantage the reloading manual makers would tell us to use them. Fact is, knowledgable reloaders know excessively "hot" primers usually degrade acccuracy and can induce unsual velocity variations. All the velocity we can attain and best accuracy comes from a proper balance of powder and ignition. Hot primers can be helpful but ONLY if they are needed to ignite the charge; few cartridges/powders need that.

BR shooters usually seek primers with the minimum fire that will still ignite the charge properly. Their match winning 6PPC case uses small primers and the winning cases usually have smaller than normal flash holes specifically to reduce excessive flash from the primers.

Charlie98 · September 13, 2011, 08:25 AM

If it's any consolation, my Lee hand prime tray is too small for CCI trays, too, so I don't think it's fair to just pick on Federal. Most of the hand primer trays have been redesigned to accomodate the trays now, I believe.

As far as Federal primers being more 'sensitive'... I've heard the same thing about Winchesters, too, so go figure.

Don P · September 13, 2011, 08:34 AM

A storage unit for 6,000 primers. Guess I should rent a warehouse for my 13,000 primers and 8# of powder and 3,500 bullets. That reminds me I need more bullets.

Spacecoast where you getting the primers and price?

Magnum Wheel Man · September 13, 2011, 09:14 AM

I like the primers in my cases, but don't like the primer cases

I also use a Lee hand primer... a Cool Whip lid has to work for an intermediary between the huge square primer trays & the lil round priming tool tray

but definately dislike taking up all that space on my shelves...

spacecoast · September 13, 2011, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Spacecoast where you getting the primers and price?

Ha ha, I've got you beat with my <undisclosed quantity> of primers, 8K bullets and <undisclosed quantity> of powder. This last bunch of Federals I found at Cabela's for $28 (on sale). Not a great price, but I wanted them fast. Beats the heck out of the $6.99 per 100 they were charging at SCB.

dickttx · September 13, 2011, 09:58 AM

Just push all the primers in the tray to one side, hold the box of primers upside down over the clear part of the tray, and pull the cover half way off. Repeat for the other half.

MGMorden · September 13, 2011, 10:20 AM

Before I knew any better I used Federal primers in a Lee hand-prime tool. I never had any issues at all (aside from being more of a pain to get them into the tray).

Nowadays I use CCI 90% of the time, but that's just because they tend to be cheap and readily available.

engineermike · September 13, 2011, 10:51 AM

Yea, I hate the ones that dimple when you run them back through the de-capping/sizing die so you can put them in the case head the right way. I wished they made those out of more durable material.

I too buy the ones that cost the least at the time of purchase.

azphx55 · September 13, 2011, 11:00 AM

I keep an old plastic bowl at my reloading station and dump Federal primers into the bowl, then pour them into my Lee Auto-Prime tray. "Normal" sized primer packages I just dump directly into the tray half at a time.

I recently filled my primer shelf and had to overflow into a broom closet, but my bigger concern at the moment is that the shelf where I keep my lead probably isn't really strong enough to hold the load.

lll Otto lll · September 13, 2011, 05:56 PM

@ Guffey
Lee upgraded their hand primer and it now accepts primers from all manufactures. http://leeprecision.com/xcart/Auto-Prime-XR.html

The DOT requires that Federal use large packaging.
That was the explanation I got when I emailed ATK two years ago.

dickttx · September 13, 2011, 07:03 PM

All my lead and bullets go on the floor. Just don't try to kick it out of the way!

Ouch!!!

praetorian97 · September 14, 2011, 09:00 AM

This brings up a question. Why do Federal Primers come in such a larger container for the same quantity of primers you find in the other manufacturers???

GWS · September 14, 2011, 11:26 AM

Because they can.

Marketing. Bigger package, same price, means more sales. Remington wins on the grab your attention colors. Federal boxes aren't much better than unmarked boxes. Bigger trumps on perceived value tho.

Reminds me of Prilosec boxes. they do jazzy color AND size. 10 pills in a box that could hold 200.

At least primers aren't addictive.........or are they?

Please DON"T try swallowing primers for heart burn......

chris in va · September 14, 2011, 04:56 PM

Guys be careful posting how many primers you have on hand. IIRC there is a limit of 10,000 per fire code.

engineermike · September 14, 2011, 10:13 PM

I was wondering when someone was going to bring that up... There is a max limit on this stuff.

1SOW · September 14, 2011, 10:38 PM

I load light strike pistols using Fed SPPs and like them. I don't much like the packaging either, but:

Federal packages their primers so if one were ignite, the others won't. This is because they use an older more sensitive formula.
I reload with the Lee Turret press and the primer system has been modified to prevent chain ignition of the primers. This was done many years ago. I have reloaded over 25K Fed primers and never had one go off in the press.

I think it was last year that someone posted a pic of the "Blue" press primer tube being fired into the ceiling due to a chain primer ignition. It wasn't Fed primers in the tube.

IMHO, Primers, any primers, are the most dangerous component in the reloaders' supply. They are 'explosive' instead of 'combustible'.

Jim Watson · September 14, 2011, 10:44 PM

Agreed.
Federal pistol primers ARE more sensitive than other brands.
I have a tuned Python that will reliably fire no other US brand. Winchester got close when they went to the unplated cups but still not 100% in that gun.

I think the cups are softer. I had some very ugly fired Federal primers from handbook loads in 9mm until I changed to WW or CCI for the auto calibers. The fired primers look normal now.

The Federal tray is larger to prevent gang firing of their more sensitive primers in case of accident. I read of a test in which they fired a .30-06 into a pallet of packaged primers. Only the ones directly hit by the bullet popped.

1SOW · September 14, 2011, 10:59 PM

I read an article on Fed primers that discussed their using an older more volatile formula. I went to the "MSDS" site for Fed primers and their formula is different than Win CCI etc. in that it contained a very small percentage of Nitroglycerin. http://www.federalpremium.com/pdf/ms...eandPistol.pdf

Brian Pfleuger · September 14, 2011, 11:07 PM

Federal primers are so thin that I can't use them at all for loading 357sig. They pierce with loads that would be starting loads in a 9mm, no where near even middle of the road for the Sig. Lots of guys swear by Federal rifle primers but the handgun stuff is unusable as far as I'm concerned.

1SOW · September 14, 2011, 11:16 PM

I run very light springs in my comp 9mm's, and the 'hits' on Win and Fed primers 'looked' identical. The Wins FTF 2/50 avg. The Feds fire 100% avg.
I've since gone to an extended firing pin. I fired one Win White Box of 50 with no FTFs. I still use Feds for a guaranteed bang.

Sevens · September 15, 2011, 06:58 AM

Quote:

The DOT requires that Federal use large packaging.
That was the explanation I got when I emailed ATK two years ago.

That's interesting... but ATK also produces CCI primers.

I'm not saying you aren't relaying exactly the info they told you, it's just odd since they produce both.

September 13, 2011, 05:42 AM	#1
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	Primer packaging Bought 6,000 Federal primers last week... looks like I'll need to rent a storage unit...

September 13, 2011, 07:34 AM	#3
CowTowner Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2007 Location: Cowtown of course! Posts: 1,747	I could be wrong because I have been before, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that the reason Lee did not recommend Federal primers for use in his equipment was due to the "softer" material they were made from. They reportedly detonate more often during the seating process than others. Hence one of the reasons for the "Explosion Shield" offered for the Load-Master. http://leeprecision.com/xcart/LM-EXPLOSION-SHIELD.html However, on Page 85 of "Modern Reloading - Second Edition" by Richard Lee, it states only "*Do not use Federal primers in a Lee Auto-Prime!* Any primer not listed above has not been tested, so you must assume they are unsafe." It seems Mr. Lee only tested Winchester, CCI and Remington primers prior to publication. Which leaves more than just Federal off the list of tested primers. I too have a couple thousand Federal primers because during the shortage they were all I could find. I'll be using them to load .45 ACP in the near future on my Lee Load-Master. __________________ NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, Home Firearms Safety, Pistol and Rifle Instructor *“Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life......”* President John F. Kennedy Last edited by CowTowner; September 13, 2011 at 07:40 AM.

September 13, 2011, 08:22 AM	#5
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	Federal primers are no 'softer' than others, they do have a slightly more sensitive priming compoud. They do that to reduce misfires and hangfires - works too. But no good deed goes unpunished, it also inccurs a slightly higher risk of chain fires if one goes off accidentally in storage and use. That's why Fed puts each primer in individual holes in those boxes. I haven't found loading them into primer flippers or Lee's Autoprime tools to be complicated and I've loaded several thousands of Federal in Lee's AutoPrimes with no problem (but I'm not suggesting anyone else do it.) I've actually found Federal's primer caps appear to be harder or thicker than most others. I have two rifles with slightly oversize firning pin holes and they tend to crater primers at normal pressures but I get no cratering at all with the same charge when using Federals. Reloading greenhorns intuitively presume a "hot" primer will surely be 'best' but if hot primers had any consistant advantage the reloading manual makers would tell us to use them. Fact is, knowledgable reloaders know excessively "hot" primers usually degrade acccuracy and can induce unsual velocity variations. All the velocity we can attain and best accuracy comes from a proper balance of powder and ignition. Hot primers can be helpful but ONLY if they are needed to ignite the charge; few cartridges/powders need that. BR shooters usually seek primers with the minimum fire that will still ignite the charge properly. Their match winning 6PPC case uses small primers and the winning cases usually have smaller than normal flash holes specifically to reduce excessive flash from the primers. Last edited by wncchester; September 13, 2011 at 12:07 PM.

September 13, 2011, 08:34 AM	#7
Don P Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2005 Location: Swamp dweller Posts: 6,187	A storage unit for 6,000 primers. Guess I should rent a warehouse for my 13,000 primers and 8# of powder and 3,500 bullets. That reminds me I need more bullets. Spacecoast where you getting the primers and price? __________________ *NRA Life Member, NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, NRA Certified Pistol Instructor,, USPSA & Steel Challange NROI Range Officer, ICORE Range Officer, ,MAG 40 Graduate* *As you are, I once was, As I am, You will be.*

September 13, 2011, 09:14 AM	#8
Magnum Wheel Man Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2006 Location: Southern Minnesota Posts: 9,333	I like the primers in my cases, but don't like the primer cases I also use a Lee hand primer... a Cool Whip lid has to work for an intermediary between the huge square primer trays & the lil round priming tool tray but definately dislike taking up all that space on my shelves... __________________ In life you either make dust or eat dust...

September 13, 2011, 06:41 AM	#2
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	R. Lee was not happy with Federal, seems they did not donate primers for testing? So, he refused to purchase Federal primers for testing? In his book R. Lee claimed the Federal primers were more powerful, more powerful than what, I do not know. After hearing all the scary stories about 'more powerful' primers, Federal redesigned the primer tray to make the more powerful safer to ship and it is only a coincidence the tray for shipping was too large for dumping primers into the Lee hand primer, the saddest part was the user of Lee hand primers could not figure a way to get the primers from the large tray to the smaller round tray, and I suppose if there is a moral to the story Federal did not care what Lee thought about their primers, Me? I still have friends tell me, "don't use Federal primers in a Lee hand primer because they are more powerful, back to me, More-powerful? That is what I want, I want the more powerful primer. F. Guffey

September 13, 2011, 07:57 AM	#4
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	I was warned about using Federal primers in a Lee auto-prime, but I use a hand press anyway to load all mine (not pressing too hard of course). I like the added sensitivity of the hand press, it's easy to tell if a primer is crooked or if you have run into one of those cursed Blazer .45ACPs that use small primers. The Federal primers solved a severe light strike problem I was having with my light-action 686.

September 13, 2011, 08:25 AM	#6
Charlie98 Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2006 Location: Great state of Texas Posts: 1,077	If it's any consolation, my Lee hand prime tray is too small for CCI trays, too, so I don't think it's fair to just pick on Federal. Most of the hand primer trays have been redesigned to accomodate the trays now, I believe. As far as Federal primers being more 'sensitive'... I've heard the same thing about Winchesters, too, so go figure.

September 13, 2011, 09:58 AM	#10
dickttx Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2011 Location: Fort Worth Posts: 500	Just push all the primers in the tray to one side, hold the box of primers upside down over the clear part of the tray, and pull the cover half way off. Repeat for the other half. __________________ Education teaches you the rules, experience teaches you the exceptions (Plagiarized from Claude Clay)

September 13, 2011, 10:20 AM	#11
MGMorden Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2006 Posts: 158	Before I knew any better I used Federal primers in a Lee hand-prime tool. I never had any issues at all (aside from being more of a pain to get them into the tray). Nowadays I use CCI 90% of the time, but that's just because they tend to be cheap and readily available.

September 13, 2011, 10:51 AM	#12
engineermike Junior member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Oklahaoma City Posts: 538	Yea, I hate the ones that dimple when you run them back through the de-capping/sizing die so you can put them in the case head the right way. I wished they made those out of more durable material. I too buy the ones that cost the least at the time of purchase.

September 13, 2011, 11:00 AM	#13
azphx55 Member Join Date: September 7, 2010 Posts: 85	I keep an old plastic bowl at my reloading station and dump Federal primers into the bowl, then pour them into my Lee Auto-Prime tray. "Normal" sized primer packages I just dump directly into the tray half at a time. I recently filled my primer shelf and had to overflow into a broom closet, but my bigger concern at the moment is that the shelf where I keep my lead probably isn't really strong enough to hold the load.

September 13, 2011, 05:56 PM	#14
lll Otto lll Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2008 Location: Lone Star State Posts: 295	@ Guffey Lee upgraded their hand primer and it now accepts primers from all manufactures. http://leeprecision.com/xcart/Auto-Prime-XR.html The DOT requires that Federal use large packaging. That was the explanation I got when I emailed ATK two years ago.

September 13, 2011, 07:03 PM	#15
dickttx Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2011 Location: Fort Worth Posts: 500	All my lead and bullets go on the floor. Just don't try to kick it out of the way! Ouch!!! __________________ Education teaches you the rules, experience teaches you the exceptions (Plagiarized from Claude Clay)

September 14, 2011, 09:00 AM	#16
praetorian97 Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2011 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 455	This brings up a question. Why do Federal Primers come in such a larger container for the same quantity of primers you find in the other manufacturers???

September 14, 2011, 11:26 AM	#17
GWS Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2010 Location: New Mexico Posts: 688	Because they can. Marketing. Bigger package, same price, means more sales. Remington wins on the grab your attention colors. Federal boxes aren't much better than unmarked boxes. Bigger trumps on perceived value tho. Reminds me of Prilosec boxes. they do jazzy color AND size. 10 pills in a box that could hold 200. At least primers aren't addictive.........or are they? Please DON"T try swallowing primers for heart burn...... Last edited by GWS; September 14, 2011 at 11:33 AM.

September 14, 2011, 04:56 PM	#18
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Guys be careful posting how many primers you have on hand. IIRC there is a limit of 10,000 per fire code.

September 14, 2011, 10:13 PM	#19
engineermike Junior member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Oklahaoma City Posts: 538	I was wondering when someone was going to bring that up... There is a max limit on this stuff.

September 14, 2011, 10:38 PM	#20
1SOW Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: South TX Posts: 269	I load light strike pistols using Fed SPPs and like them. I don't much like the packaging either, but: Federal packages their primers so if one were ignite, the others won't. This is because they use an older more sensitive formula. I reload with the Lee Turret press and the primer system has been modified to prevent chain ignition of the primers. This was done many years ago. I have reloaded over 25K Fed primers and never had one go off in the press. I think it was last year that someone posted a pic of the "Blue" press primer tube being fired into the ceiling due to a chain primer ignition. It wasn't Fed primers in the tube. IMHO, Primers, any primers, are the most dangerous component in the reloaders' supply. They are 'explosive' instead of 'combustible'.

September 14, 2011, 10:44 PM	#21
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	Agreed. Federal pistol primers ARE more sensitive than other brands. I have a tuned Python that will reliably fire no other US brand. Winchester got close when they went to the unplated cups but still not 100% in that gun. I think the cups are softer. I had some very ugly fired Federal primers from handbook loads in 9mm until I changed to WW or CCI for the auto calibers. The fired primers look normal now. The Federal tray is larger to prevent gang firing of their more sensitive primers in case of accident. I read of a test in which they fired a .30-06 into a pallet of packaged primers. Only the ones directly hit by the bullet popped.

September 14, 2011, 10:59 PM	#22
1SOW Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: South TX Posts: 269	I read an article on Fed primers that discussed their using an older more volatile formula. I went to the "MSDS" site for Fed primers and their formula is different than Win CCI etc. in that it contained a very small percentage of Nitroglycerin. http://www.federalpremium.com/pdf/ms...eandPistol.pdf

September 14, 2011, 11:07 PM	#23
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	Federal primers are so thin that I can't use them at all for loading 357sig. They pierce with loads that would be starting loads in a 9mm, no where near even middle of the road for the Sig. Lots of guys swear by Federal rifle primers but the handgun stuff is unusable as far as I'm concerned.

September 14, 2011, 11:16 PM	#24
1SOW Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: South TX Posts: 269	I run very light springs in my comp 9mm's, and the 'hits' on Win and Fed primers 'looked' identical. The Wins FTF 2/50 avg. The Feds fire 100% avg. I've since gone to an extended firing pin. I fired one Win White Box of 50 with no FTFs. I still use Feds for a guaranteed bang.