What would you have done?

Timulator · January 17, 2005, 12:29 AM

Some years ago in rural Los Angeles county, I was alone in my car driving along a quiet, curvy road that sees perhaps one car drive by every couple to five minutes. During the middle of the day at an area near a curve in the road I saw a pickup with a service bed pulled off on my the side of the road and one white male in his upper-20s dressed in construction clothes (painter?) stepping into the road from the other side to wave me down. Doors locked, I stopped and cracked my window (farther than I should have) to see what he had to say.

He said a motorcyclist had just crashed and wanted me to get out to check him out. I looked, but saw no motorcyclist (but with the dips in the sandy terrain and sage bushes, there very well could have been). The man emphasized the need for me to "get out" of my vehicle in a suspicious way. It really smelled like a set-up to me. The conversation went something like:

Man: "Hey! A motorcycle just crashed! Can you get out and help me? I think he's hurt!"

Me, not seeing a motorcycle: "I'll go call 911." (no cell phone--this was 1987).

Man: "Someone else already called. Can you get out and look at him?"

Me, as I started driving off: "I'll call 911."

I was unarmed (Kalifornia, after all), but had this happened today while armed and with a cell phone on me, I've often thought of how I would have approached that situation differently.

As it was, I finally got to a phone booth several miles away and phoned it in. They did not claim to have received an earlier report. I told them I wasn't sure if it was legitimate or not. Never heard from them about it, but I did read in the paper a day or two later that a motorcyclist had died from injuries sustained when he crashed off that road that day. So I think it probably was legit after all. And with all the First Aid training I'd received, maybe I could have helped the guy. It still bugs me, but given the situation (primarily me unarmed), I think my actions were the only sensible ones to take.

Assuming you were armed, with or without a cell phone, what would you have done?

joab · January 17, 2005, 12:56 AM

Quote:

I was unarmed (Kalifornia, after all), but had this happened today while armed and with a cell phone on me, I've often thought of how I would have approached that situation differently.

My actions would have been the same and still would be.
But then I have no special skills in first aid or CPR beyond the basics. If the proper personnel had been called what more could you really have done that the other guy didn't.

That's how the criminals work they prey on the fact that people want to help.

Of the situations that I know of that fit your scenario most have been legit. The ones that weren't turned out horribly for the good Samaritan

InToItTRX · January 17, 2005, 01:05 AM

I would not of stopped. You can't take the risk. With a cell phone and a gun or without one, its not worth my life. I only stopped for someone when it was clear they were hurt, their pickup truck rolled over and the guy was trapped inside, I had no gun at this time, I was only 18, and I called 911 on my cell phone, even though it was not a trap I yelled at myself later on for helping. If it were clear someone was hurt and I could see them, now I would probably help due to my gun, however if I could not see anything like you, forget it.

riverkeeper · January 17, 2005, 01:15 AM

often carry when it's OK to do so.
If armed, drive on down (or backup) the road about 50 yds - to provide some distance. Get out get my EMT bag, lock the car, look over the side for the accident or perps before approaching. Carry the EMT stuff weak side.

In any situation the most important issue is your safety. You did fine.

djw6611 · January 17, 2005, 01:24 AM

As an EMT I can say that 99% of the time when someone dies in a motor vehicle accident, there really wasnt much anyone could have done for them. Chances are the person was dead the second they crashed, moreover having only basic firstaid skills with no equipment limits your options big time. Especially in a motorcycle crash the cause of death is usually from a huge trauma to the head/neck, something that cannot be remedied so easily.

Making sure 911 was called was the best thing to do because probably the only thing that would have saved that person was a quick trip to the hospital and some emergency surgery. I stopped at an accident once (off-duty) along with a paramedic (mind you paramedics have over 1000 hours of training, much more than just an EMT) and the most we could do for one guy was to just perform cpr until the rescue arrived. Obviously he was dead and there was nothing we could have done, so we wouldnt let it bother us, this is something you learn to do in this field. Keep in mind too that most people wouldnt have even stopped for that truck, much less gone on to call 911.

But dont get me wrong, having those first aid skills is much like carrying a firearm, you hope that you may never have to use them but if you do you will be ready and it could very well save your life or that of another.

Drop-Shot · January 17, 2005, 01:38 AM

I would have called for backup,you did the right thing.You had no way of knowing what would have happened.Drop-Shot

FrankDrebin · January 17, 2005, 06:20 AM

Quote:

The man emphasized the need for me to "get out" of my vehicle in a suspicious way

Why was it so important to him that you get out of your vehicle in a suspicious way?

ahenry · January 17, 2005, 06:41 AM

Gun or no gun, suspicious way of asking me for help or not, visible accident or not, I would have checked things out. Of course that puts me at a little bit greater risks, but then life is full of tradeoffs.

1BadF350 · January 17, 2005, 08:50 AM

Honestly, I would have pulled over to help in any way I could. I wouldn't have thought about "Is this a setup?". I'm not that paranoid....yet. My initial reaction would have been to get out and help. This action would have sealed my fate if it was in fact a setup, but it's just my nature to run to someone in need of help. If buster wanted to rob or shoot me then I guess I would have paid that price. I would have been on the express elevator to heaven though. Can't go through life worrying about that stuff.

BTW, my above comment about paranoia was just my .02 cents and not meant as an insult to anyone.

Derius_T · January 17, 2005, 09:21 AM

It is somewhat disturbing how many people have the attitude of not helping.
Are people that timid? Are they that scared that the boogie man will get them that they have lost sense of morality and compassion? I have been in alot of situations, both personal, and in service to my country, in which I have put my life in danger for another human being without a seconds thought. It is just something you do. To the people that say they wouldn't help, what if it was one of your loved ones trapped in that car, or that building, or whatever, and nobody would stop to help cuz they were scared, or it wasn't their problem? Just another sad, sad problem with americans who have forgotten what it means to BE americans......

mvpel · January 17, 2005, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Are people that timid? Are they that scared that the boogie man will get them that they have lost sense of morality and compassion?

In a state where the public is disarmed by force of law, this is a legitimate concern. Putting yourself into a vulnerable situation with no means of defending yourself can have dire consequences:

Quote:

The Warren County teenager says she was almost raped on the side of the road by a man who offered to help with her car trouble. ... Authorities say the woman's injuries are significant.

Quote:

A man reportedly got out of the vehicle and asked if Wortinger needed help. He said no, and was then hit over the head with an unknown object.

I've also seen situations where feigned car trouble is a pretext for robbing a good samaritan, but those don't seem to happen much any more because of cell phones and stories like these.

Things are different, generally speaking, here in New Hampshire (a shall-issue state), where you're likely to have several people competing to help you out and lend you a spare tire. Every so often the newspaper publishes thank-you letters from stranded motorists addressed to their anonymous benefactors.

Timulator · January 17, 2005, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Why was it so important to him that you get out of your vehicle in a suspicious way?

Busted by the grammar police!

Timulator · January 17, 2005, 11:10 AM

Quote:

I wouldn't have thought about "Is this a setup?". I'm not that paranoid....yet. My initial reaction would have been to get out and help....

My initial reaction was to get out to help too. But given the same situation, you may well have thought it to be a setup too.

In situations such as that it is a bunch of subtle things that you pick up on that may not translate well into a post like this. The story on another thread about the guy who came to the door saying he needed the phone is a fine example of this. Subtle things such as the way the man positioned himself and his hands, the way his eyes moved, things like that. The way this guy repeatedly emphasized "get out of the car" seemed unnatural to me and was a signal that something just wasn't right. Besides, this wasn't the safest part of town either. I chose the prudent move to call for help. Many would have chosen to expose themselves to the risk. I did not.

The story of the Good Samaratin did not include him exposing himself to the dangers of the robbers.

Quote:

BTW, my above comment about paranoia was just my .02 cents and not meant as an insult to anyone.

No offense taken.

Timulator · January 17, 2005, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Are people that timid? Are they that scared that the boogie man will get them that they have lost sense of morality and compassion? I have been in alot of situations, both personal, and in service to my country, in which I have put my life in danger for another human being without a seconds thought. It is just something you do. To the people that say they wouldn't help, what if it was one of your loved ones trapped in that car, or that building, or whatever, and nobody would stop to help cuz they were scared, or it wasn't their problem? Just another sad, sad problem with americans who have forgotten what it means to BE americans......

Had I stopped to help and it turned out to be a setup where I knelt down to help the "injured" motorcyclist and got slammed in the head by a pipe and left to die, I would expect we'd all be asking "Are people that stupid? Are they that naive that they would walk right into an obvious setup?"

Just to clear things up here, if I had actually seen the motorcyclist, I probably would have gotten out while prudently keeping "buster" in sight and at a distance. It wouldn't matter one bit if it is someone I know or a complete stranger who is injured. And I did not dismiss this as "not my problem." I did the next best thing which was to summon help.

What I did was take in the facts available to me at the time--lonely stretch of road where some character is urging me to get out of my car to check on an alledged downed motorcyclist that I could not see. It was the perfect setup for a robbery or car-jacking.

That was my decision then and I stand by it now. But given different circumstances where I know someone needs help, stranger or loved one, I have no problem exposing myself to risk to help them. I suspect most who say they wouldn't have stopped feel this way as well.

We are, after all, Americans! Prudent and tactically-minded Americans!

InToItTRX · January 17, 2005, 12:44 PM

Screw helping, people are killed all the time like that in Arizona. I can recall several stories in the last year alone in this State. Until I get my full peace officer status I am not required to help anyone. That will all change in a few months however, but hopefully I will have better training to deal with those situations. Just call 911, if you can't then get to a phone and do it. Like I said before if I could see the person in need of help, and had my gun with me, then yes I would most likely stop. But I would not stop in the situation talked about.

MrBill · January 17, 2005, 04:42 PM

I believe you did just fine. If you felt uncomfortable with the situation, keep on driving and call for help. Given the circumstances. Alot of people would stop and help, done it myself, usually with other people around..situation looks legit. But you are not obligated. Those that think everyone should jump in blindly..are idiots. Wish they and theirs to run into that one in a million serial killer..and then hear them whine and cry. To hell with those bleeding hearts. Go home to your family, safe and sound...I'm more confounded by anyone riding a motorcycle in the first place...just asking for major damage.

FrankDrebin · January 17, 2005, 05:46 PM

Don't cry though when you or a family member are injured in a ditch and all you see are tail lights......You can't screw with the cosmic balance and not have it come back around.........You don't really see too many people dressed like a tradesman at the side of the road holding people up like that....

Derius_T · January 17, 2005, 07:11 PM

Mr. Bill wrote:

Quote:

Wish they and theirs to run into that one in a million serial killer..and then hear them whine and cry. To hell with those bleeding hearts.

You know man....you need serious help. That is one of the lowest comments I have ever heard. Just because you don't agree with someone's opinion you hope that they are killed? What a jackass.

InToItTRX · January 17, 2005, 07:31 PM

Thats why this world needs help, someone does not agree with someone and they wish them dead. I don't expect others to help me, if you want something done right do it yourself.

Drop-Shot · January 17, 2005, 07:59 PM

Derius T if I see an obvious wreck I will stop and I'm disabled,I'll do anything I could.But if im told there is a wreck and I don't see anything I'm not stoping.In the great state of Florida a young women in my youth waved me down in my 65 mustang,while talking to her some friends tried to break in to my car and broke the windshield.If you are that gullable we will read about you in the paper one day,there are people that need help and people that will kill for help.I'm old and have seen alot of good hearted folks taken advantage of,I wish you the best but it don't sound good.Make sure there is a problem before you expose yourself.You deserve to be alive too.Drop-Shot

Dwight55 · January 17, 2005, 09:19 PM

Timmulator, . . . a very wise man one day explained to me a very significant piece of information about decisions we make.

He said that if the decision was a good one when it was made, . . . it is still a good one the next day, the next week, the next month, the next year, and so on. No one knows the future, . . . we must just do what we can in this present tense in which we are imprisoned. You made the best decision, that day, . . . for that time, . . . in those circumstances, . . . you could have made.

As another opined, a motorcyclist off the road in any kind of accident is either going to survive with or without basic first aid, . . . or die, . . . with or without basic first aid. Your best help was what you did, . . . went after the pro's.

To assuage any guilt you may feel, . . . go get a police report of that accident, take time to go over it in detail, drive out to the spot and see if it is where you were stopped. Though I am not a betting man, . . . I would probably put my money on "setup" for you, . . . "coincidence" for the motorcycle accident.

Would I have gotten out of my vehicle, . . . yes, I probably would have in years past. But then again, . . . my nature is normally observant and trusting until I see reason to be otherwise. Under most circumstances it has served me well, . . . but sometimes I think my guardian angel will rub his bandages, wipe his brow, and let out a big grin when I enter heaven and say, "Man, I'm glad that's over. He's finally here."

May God bless,
Dwight

CarlosDJackal · January 18, 2005, 12:24 AM

I'm with you on this. If someone tells me to get out of my car to help some motorcyclist thata I cannot see, I woul dnot have done it either.

I think you did fine and chances are, the motorcyclist who died in a crash that day was a just a coincidence. JM2CW.

riverkeeper · January 18, 2005, 03:46 AM

If you do stop near an accident scene -- park well away from it to leave road space for a few cop cars, a wrecker, Lookie Lou safety, an ambulance and a traffic diversion. As posted before this also provides a measure of personal safety for those who carry, or can make quick get a ways.

The other EMT's post reveals what I hope you all know - an EMT can do a FEW things most of you do not know how to do or have the Gear for BUT the REAL MAGIC is in a trauma center or hands of the medic. Get the 911 call made above almost anything else!

Been there and done bloody vehicle accidents 3 times solo during the past 26 years and don't like it one bit. My decision to carry and maintain a Wilderness EMT cert provides a better sense of security for me and spouse in some situations and has made it possible to help others too. That is my decision -- it may not be yours and that is OK.

Good topic and I'm glad the original poster was humble enough to bring it up.

Derius_T · January 18, 2005, 10:07 AM

Now, I'm not saying that anyone should skip blindly into danger whistling a happy tune.....you need to be aware, and take precaution in any given situation. Stupid = Dead. But, there are some people that take it to the extreme. To be that paranoid and fearful must make for a terrible existence.

I have lived in a few of the most dangerous cities in the US, and was always prepaired for the worst, and paid attention to the situation, but always tried to help if I could. I always tried to think, what if the situation were reversed, as it has been before, and people just drive by like they don't even see you and your kids freezing to death at the side of the road.......

Now, drive on home, watch TV, and think about what a great person you are.
Doesn't that make you feel all warm and fuzzy? :barf:

dick_tracy1953 · January 18, 2005, 10:37 AM

I was trying to make a right hand turn out of the grocery store parking lot onto a four lane road. There was quite a bit of traffic so I had to wait. It was a hot Summer night just after ten pm in early August. I had my window down for comfort. Out of the corner of my eye I saw a black guy approaching my car. He grabbed at his member then quickly closed the distance to my car. He reached in and started punching me. I was seatbelted with my door locked so I had to take the beating. The first blow chipped one of my teet. I thought that the second one had broken my nose because there was blood all over my shirt and the front seat of the car. I caught a break, the traffic cleared and I was looking for an escape. I darted my car across the street to a gas station. Maybe he had hit me three or four times. There were other people that saw this assualt happen and most of them came to my aid. The police were called but the bad guy got away. Two guys tried to chase down the bad guy in thier car but lost him. Two women and a guy helped clean me up. They iced down my face compliments of the gas station attendant. Maybe there were only five good guys that helped me out. I was seeing double. They even helped clean up the car. The scarry thing that I remembered was that I had a difficult choice to make with little time to think. When I pulled my car out on to the road, for a moment, I thought turn back into the parking lot and turn that bugger into splat. Instead I went across the street to the gas station not knowing what to do next.

After getting help and the police arrived (too late) the situation was pieced together. It must have been that the black guy was with two others in a car. They had stopped in the parking lot to shout at each other. The guy that hit me was fighting with a girl and she must have smacked him a few times then hopped back in the car before driving to the other side of the parking lot. He was trying to catch up with them but took out his anger on me. I was not armed. The only protection that I had were the people that stepped up to help. My bible was under my front seat stored in a plastic bag. At the time it served no purpose but then again maybe just knowing that it was there helped me make the right choice.

Aside from feeling helpless at the time I have no regrets about how things played out that night. Some of my friends had some good ideas about what I should have done. Maybe the idea about trying to grab the guy's arm before pulling out onto the road was the best one. The other one was to quickly roll your window up if you see any one approaching your car. This method has served me well except in one instance it may have provoked a response. After I rolled up my window a guy threw a rock that hit the glass but I did not get hurt.

January 17, 2005, 12:29 AM	#1
Timulator Member Join Date: December 31, 2004 Location: Kitsap County, Washington state Posts: 48	What would you have done? Some years ago in rural Los Angeles county, I was alone in my car driving along a quiet, curvy road that sees perhaps one car drive by every couple to five minutes. During the middle of the day at an area near a curve in the road I saw a pickup with a service bed pulled off on my the side of the road and one white male in his upper-20s dressed in construction clothes (painter?) stepping into the road from the other side to wave me down. Doors locked, I stopped and cracked my window (farther than I should have) to see what he had to say. He said a motorcyclist had just crashed and wanted me to get out to check him out. I looked, but saw no motorcyclist (but with the dips in the sandy terrain and sage bushes, there very well could have been). The man emphasized the need for me to "get out" of my vehicle in a suspicious way. It really smelled like a set-up to me. The conversation went something like: Man: "Hey! A motorcycle just crashed! Can you get out and help me? I think he's hurt!" Me, not seeing a motorcycle: "I'll go call 911." (no cell phone--this was 1987). Man: "Someone else already called. Can you get out and look at him?" Me, as I started driving off: "I'll call 911." I was unarmed (Kalifornia, after all), but had this happened today while armed and with a cell phone on me, I've often thought of how I would have approached that situation differently. As it was, I finally got to a phone booth several miles away and phoned it in. They did not claim to have received an earlier report. I told them I wasn't sure if it was legitimate or not. Never heard from them about it, but I did read in the paper a day or two later that a motorcyclist had died from injuries sustained when he crashed off that road that day. So I think it probably was legit after all. And with all the First Aid training I'd received, maybe I could have helped the guy. It still bugs me, but given the situation (primarily me unarmed), I think my actions were the only sensible ones to take. Assuming you were armed, with or without a cell phone, what would you have done?

January 17, 2005, 01:05 AM	#3
InToItTRX Registration in progress Join Date: December 8, 2004 Posts: 304	I would not of stopped. You can't take the risk. With a cell phone and a gun or without one, its not worth my life. I only stopped for someone when it was clear they were hurt, their pickup truck rolled over and the guy was trapped inside, I had no gun at this time, I was only 18, and I called 911 on my cell phone, even though it was not a trap I yelled at myself later on for helping. If it were clear someone was hurt and I could see them, now I would probably help due to my gun, however if I could not see anything like you, forget it. __________________ \

January 17, 2005, 01:15 AM	#4
riverkeeper Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2004 Location: Tacoma, Washington Posts: 214	I'm an EMT and often carry when it's OK to do so. If armed, drive on down (or backup) the road about 50 yds - to provide some distance. Get out get my EMT bag, lock the car, look over the side for the accident or perps before approaching. Carry the EMT stuff weak side. In any situation the most important issue is your safety. You did fine. __________________ "A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." -- Bertrand de Jouvenel ........ 'All the wooly-headed thinking explains the happy howling.' -- r

January 17, 2005, 01:38 AM	#6
Drop-Shot Member Join Date: January 17, 2005 Location: Washington now,moving to Montana Posts: 19	Drop-Shot I would have called for backup,you did the right thing.You had no way of knowing what would have happened.Drop-Shot

January 17, 2005, 06:41 AM	#8
ahenry Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 1,764	Gun or no gun, suspicious way of asking me for help or not, visible accident or not, I would have checked things out. Of course that puts me at a little bit greater risks, but then life is full of tradeoffs. __________________ Doing what you've done, gets you what you've got.

January 17, 2005, 01:24 AM	#5
djw6611 Member Join Date: December 3, 2004 Posts: 43	As an EMT I can say that 99% of the time when someone dies in a motor vehicle accident, there really wasnt much anyone could have done for them. Chances are the person was dead the second they crashed, moreover having only basic firstaid skills with no equipment limits your options big time. Especially in a motorcycle crash the cause of death is usually from a huge trauma to the head/neck, something that cannot be remedied so easily. Making sure 911 was called was the best thing to do because probably the only thing that would have saved that person was a quick trip to the hospital and some emergency surgery. I stopped at an accident once (off-duty) along with a paramedic (mind you paramedics have over 1000 hours of training, much more than just an EMT) and the most we could do for one guy was to just perform cpr until the rescue arrived. Obviously he was dead and there was nothing we could have done, so we wouldnt let it bother us, this is something you learn to do in this field. Keep in mind too that most people wouldnt have even stopped for that truck, much less gone on to call 911. But dont get me wrong, having those first aid skills is much like carrying a firearm, you hope that you may never have to use them but if you do you will be ready and it could very well save your life or that of another.

January 17, 2005, 08:50 AM	#9
1BadF350 Senior Member Join Date: January 15, 2005 Location: Ashburn, VA Posts: 915	Honestly, I would have pulled over to help in any way I could. I wouldn't have thought about "Is this a setup?". I'm not that paranoid....yet. My initial reaction would have been to get out and help. This action would have sealed my fate if it was in fact a setup, but it's just my nature to run to someone in need of help. If buster wanted to rob or shoot me then I guess I would have paid that price. I would have been on the express elevator to heaven though. Can't go through life worrying about that stuff. BTW, my above comment about paranoia was just my .02 cents and not meant as an insult to anyone.

January 17, 2005, 09:21 AM	#10
Derius_T Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2004 Location: South West OHIO (boondocks) Posts: 1,337	It is somewhat disturbing how many people have the attitude of not helping. Are people that timid? Are they that scared that the boogie man will get them that they have lost sense of morality and compassion? I have been in alot of situations, both personal, and in service to my country, in which I have put my life in danger for another human being without a seconds thought. It is just something you do. To the people that say they wouldn't help, what if it was one of your loved ones trapped in that car, or that building, or whatever, and nobody would stop to help cuz they were scared, or it wasn't their problem? Just another sad, sad problem with americans who have forgotten what it means to BE americans......

January 17, 2005, 12:44 PM	#15
InToItTRX Registration in progress Join Date: December 8, 2004 Posts: 304	Screw helping, people are killed all the time like that in Arizona. I can recall several stories in the last year alone in this State. Until I get my full peace officer status I am not required to help anyone. That will all change in a few months however, but hopefully I will have better training to deal with those situations. Just call 911, if you can't then get to a phone and do it. Like I said before if I could see the person in need of help, and had my gun with me, then yes I would most likely stop. But I would not stop in the situation talked about. __________________ \

January 17, 2005, 04:42 PM	#16
MrBill Junior member Join Date: January 8, 2005 Posts: 91	I believe you did just fine. If you felt uncomfortable with the situation, keep on driving and call for help. Given the circumstances. Alot of people would stop and help, done it myself, usually with other people around..situation looks legit. But you are not obligated. Those that think everyone should jump in blindly..are idiots. Wish they and theirs to run into that one in a million serial killer..and then hear them whine and cry. To hell with those bleeding hearts. Go home to your family, safe and sound...I'm more confounded by anyone riding a motorcycle in the first place...just asking for major damage.

January 17, 2005, 05:46 PM	#17
FrankDrebin Junior member Join Date: May 21, 2004 Posts: 1,101	Don't cry though when you or a family member are injured in a ditch and all you see are tail lights......You can't screw with the cosmic balance and not have it come back around.........You don't really see too many people dressed like a tradesman at the side of the road holding people up like that....

January 17, 2005, 07:31 PM	#19
InToItTRX Registration in progress Join Date: December 8, 2004 Posts: 304	Thats why this world needs help, someone does not agree with someone and they wish them dead. I don't expect others to help me, if you want something done right do it yourself. __________________ \

January 17, 2005, 07:59 PM	#20
Drop-Shot Member Join Date: January 17, 2005 Location: Washington now,moving to Montana Posts: 19	Drop-Shot Derius T if I see an obvious wreck I will stop and I'm disabled,I'll do anything I could.But if im told there is a wreck and I don't see anything I'm not stoping.In the great state of Florida a young women in my youth waved me down in my 65 mustang,while talking to her some friends tried to break in to my car and broke the windshield.If you are that gullable we will read about you in the paper one day,there are people that need help and people that will kill for help.I'm old and have seen alot of good hearted folks taken advantage of,I wish you the best but it don't sound good.Make sure there is a problem before you expose yourself.You deserve to be alive too.Drop-Shot

January 17, 2005, 09:19 PM	#21
Dwight55 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 2,568	Timmulator, . . . a very wise man one day explained to me a very significant piece of information about decisions we make. He said that if the decision was a good one when it was made, . . . it is still a good one the next day, the next week, the next month, the next year, and so on. No one knows the future, . . . we must just do what we can in this present tense in which we are imprisoned. You made the best decision, that day, . . . for that time, . . . in those circumstances, . . . you could have made. As another opined, a motorcyclist off the road in any kind of accident is either going to survive with or without basic first aid, . . . or die, . . . with or without basic first aid. Your best help was what you did, . . . went after the pro's. To assuage any guilt you may feel, . . . go get a police report of that accident, take time to go over it in detail, drive out to the spot and see if it is where you were stopped. Though I am not a betting man, . . . I would probably put my money on "setup" for you, . . . "coincidence" for the motorcycle accident. Would I have gotten out of my vehicle, . . . yes, I probably would have in years past. But then again, . . . my nature is normally observant and trusting until I see reason to be otherwise. Under most circumstances it has served me well, . . . but sometimes I think my guardian angel will rub his bandages, wipe his brow, and let out a big grin when I enter heaven and say, "Man, I'm glad that's over. He's finally here." May God bless, Dwight __________________ www.dwightsgunleather.com If you can breathe, . . . thank God! If you can read, . . . thank a teacher! If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran!

January 18, 2005, 12:24 AM	#22
CarlosDJackal Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 2004 Location: Central Virginia Posts: 109	I'm with you on this. If someone tells me to get out of my car to help some motorcyclist thata I cannot see, I woul dnot have done it either. I think you did fine and chances are, the motorcyclist who died in a crash that day was a just a coincidence. JM2CW.

January 18, 2005, 03:46 AM	#23
riverkeeper Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2004 Location: Tacoma, Washington Posts: 214	Footnote-- If you do stop near an accident scene -- park well away from it to leave road space for a few cop cars, a wrecker, Lookie Lou safety, an ambulance and a traffic diversion. As posted before this also provides a measure of personal safety for those who carry, or can make quick get a ways. The other EMT's post reveals what I hope you all know - an EMT can do a FEW things most of you do not know how to do or have the Gear for BUT the REAL MAGIC is in a trauma center or hands of the medic. Get the 911 call made above almost anything else! Been there and done bloody vehicle accidents 3 times solo during the past 26 years and don't like it one bit. My decision to carry and maintain a Wilderness EMT cert provides a better sense of security for me and spouse in some situations and has made it possible to help others too. That is my decision -- it may not be yours and that is OK. Good topic and I'm glad the original poster was humble enough to bring it up. __________________ "A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves." -- Bertrand de Jouvenel ........ 'All the wooly-headed thinking explains the happy howling.' -- r

January 18, 2005, 10:07 AM	#24
Derius_T Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2004 Location: South West OHIO (boondocks) Posts: 1,337	Now, I'm not saying that anyone should skip blindly into danger whistling a happy tune.....you need to be aware, and take precaution in any given situation. Stupid = Dead. But, there are some people that take it to the extreme. To be that paranoid and fearful must make for a terrible existence. I have lived in a few of the most dangerous cities in the US, and was always prepaired for the worst, and paid attention to the situation, but always tried to help if I could. I always tried to think, what if the situation were reversed, as it has been before, and people just drive by like they don't even see you and your kids freezing to death at the side of the road....... Now, drive on home, watch TV, and think about what a great person you are. Doesn't that make you feel all warm and fuzzy? :barf:

January 18, 2005, 10:37 AM	#25
dick_tracy1953 Member Join Date: January 16, 2005 Posts: 15	I remembered 10 good guys and one bad guy.... I was trying to make a right hand turn out of the grocery store parking lot onto a four lane road. There was quite a bit of traffic so I had to wait. It was a hot Summer night just after ten pm in early August. I had my window down for comfort. Out of the corner of my eye I saw a black guy approaching my car. He grabbed at his member then quickly closed the distance to my car. He reached in and started punching me. I was seatbelted with my door locked so I had to take the beating. The first blow chipped one of my teet. I thought that the second one had broken my nose because there was blood all over my shirt and the front seat of the car. I caught a break, the traffic cleared and I was looking for an escape. I darted my car across the street to a gas station. Maybe he had hit me three or four times. There were other people that saw this assualt happen and most of them came to my aid. The police were called but the bad guy got away. Two guys tried to chase down the bad guy in thier car but lost him. Two women and a guy helped clean me up. They iced down my face compliments of the gas station attendant. Maybe there were only five good guys that helped me out. I was seeing double. They even helped clean up the car. The scarry thing that I remembered was that I had a difficult choice to make with little time to think. When I pulled my car out on to the road, for a moment, I thought turn back into the parking lot and turn that bugger into splat. Instead I went across the street to the gas station not knowing what to do next. After getting help and the police arrived (too late) the situation was pieced together. It must have been that the black guy was with two others in a car. They had stopped in the parking lot to shout at each other. The guy that hit me was fighting with a girl and she must have smacked him a few times then hopped back in the car before driving to the other side of the parking lot. He was trying to catch up with them but took out his anger on me. I was not armed. The only protection that I had were the people that stepped up to help. My bible was under my front seat stored in a plastic bag. At the time it served no purpose but then again maybe just knowing that it was there helped me make the right choice. Aside from feeling helpless at the time I have no regrets about how things played out that night. Some of my friends had some good ideas about what I should have done. Maybe the idea about trying to grab the guy's arm before pulling out onto the road was the best one. The other one was to quickly roll your window up if you see any one approaching your car. This method has served me well except in one instance it may have provoked a response. After I rolled up my window a guy threw a rock that hit the glass but I did not get hurt.