Need your help

Lord Byron · November 14, 2011, 05:57 PM

Hi everyone. I'm new to this forum. I've owned and shot many pistols and rifles in my life but this is the first cap and ball revolver I've ever owned.
Bought it cheep so I can go make smoke clouds.

Can anyone tell me what make this is? What you see is all there is.

Any help will be appreciated.

Thank you,

Byron

Andy Griffith · November 14, 2011, 06:11 PM

It's impossible to say without looking at some of the other markings, if there are any.

Take a look under the loading lever on the bottom on the barrel, or on the bottom of the frame near the serial number and show us some of the other markings if there are any.

Lord Byron · November 14, 2011, 06:22 PM

Here's the only other markings...
Hope it helps someone figure it out.

Byron

**Aguila Blanca** · November 14, 2011, 07:02 PM

Well, the barrel says "Made in Italy," so we can safely conclude that it's not an historic Colt in pristine condition. What caliber is it? Appears to be a clone of a .36 caliber 1851 Navy, but there are companies offering bastardized versions of that pistol in .44 caliber.

Most likely candidates for manufacturer would be Uberti and Pietta. Other possibilities after that might include Pedersoli, Armi San Marco, and Armi Sport. Is there anything on the barrel that might suggest any of those names?

mykeal · November 14, 2011, 07:26 PM

Armi San Marco, now defunct, based on the SM at the start of the barrel inscription. .44 cal 1851 Colt Navy pattern revolver. It's been partially defarbed, as all the frame markings (proof house logos, date code, etc.) are missing.

Doc Hoy · November 15, 2011, 12:21 AM

I have seen Armi San Marcos marked with SM (I presume for San Marco) on the side of the barrel.

They are reliable pistols but I would load it light. If you can get a .451 ball to shave a ring all the way around, I'd use those instead of .454s. Since it is brass, I would load it with a press and not with the lever. (Few agree with me on that point but I stick by it.)

I don't know what you paid for it but regardless....It was a good deal because it will have the desired outcome. You will soon have three more.

Hawg · November 15, 2011, 09:37 AM

If it was a kit gun that would explain the lack of frame and proof markings. It is a 51 Navy pattern but the wrong caliber to be a Navy. You can tell it's a .44 by the rebated cylinder. Light loads only in that brass frame. Heavy loads will beat it into a paper weight pretty quick

zullo74 · November 15, 2011, 09:53 AM

Doc Hoy wrote

Quote:

Since it is brass, I would load it with a press and not with the lever. (Few agree with me on that point but I stick by it.)

Doc,

I agree with you 100% on this point.

Hellgate · November 15, 2011, 12:08 PM

I "3rd" Hawh Hagan and Mykeal. The grip shape is consistant with the Uberti & ASM guns. One of my steel frame 44 "Navies" has the SM stamp on the barrel and is identical with the other ASMs I have.

Lord Byron · November 15, 2011, 06:27 PM

I thank you guys for steering me to the correct manufacturer. These reproductions are something new to me. It's the first time I ever heard of Armi San Marcos firearms.

If I load it with black powder, what would be the minimum and maximum load?

Again, thank you.

Byron

P.S.
Hellgate, could you post a few pics of one of your SM's please?

Hellgate · November 15, 2011, 06:37 PM

Minimum= 10-15 grains with a filler like corn meal or cream of wheat.
Maximum=25grs (pushing it if used frequently)
Recommended=20grains will last a long time (mine has)

Use dead, soft lead. Scrap or hard lead will strain the rammer and pull on the arbor (cylinder pin) to loosen it.

November 14, 2011, 06:11 PM	#2
Andy Griffith Senior Member Join Date: May 14, 2009 Location: Macon Co. NC Posts: 591	It's impossible to say without looking at some of the other markings, if there are any. Take a look under the loading lever on the bottom on the barrel, or on the bottom of the frame near the serial number and show us some of the other markings if there are any. __________________ Barney Fife: "Nip it, nip it, nip it!" Andy Griffith:"Oh now Barn'...."

November 15, 2011, 12:21 AM	#6
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I second the Honorable Mykeal on all accounts I have seen Armi San Marcos marked with SM (I presume for San Marco) on the side of the barrel. They are reliable pistols but I would load it light. If you can get a .451 ball to shave a ring all the way around, I'd use those instead of .454s. Since it is brass, I would load it with a press and not with the lever. (Few agree with me on that point but I stick by it.) I don't know what you paid for it but regardless....It was a good deal because it will have the desired outcome. You will soon have three more. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

November 15, 2011, 12:08 PM	#9
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	I "3rd" Hawh Hagan and Mykeal. The grip shape is consistant with the Uberti & ASM guns. One of my steel frame 44 "Navies" has the SM stamp on the barrel and is identical with the other ASMs I have. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

November 15, 2011, 06:27 PM	#10
Lord Byron Junior Member Join Date: November 14, 2011 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3	I thank you guys for steering me to the correct manufacturer. These reproductions are something new to me. It's the first time I ever heard of Armi San Marcos firearms. If I load it with black powder, what would be the minimum and maximum load? Again, thank you. Byron P.S. Hellgate, could you post a few pics of one of your SM's please? Last edited by Lord Byron; November 15, 2011 at 07:02 PM.

November 15, 2011, 06:37 PM	#11
Hellgate Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2010 Location: Orygun Posts: 869	Minimum= 10-15 grains with a filler like corn meal or cream of wheat. Maximum=25grs (pushing it if used frequently) Recommended=20grains will last a long time (mine has) Use dead, soft lead. Scrap or hard lead will strain the rammer and pull on the arbor (cylinder pin) to loosen it. __________________ With over 15 perCUSSIN' revolvers, I've been called the Imelda Marcos of cap & ball. SASS#3302 (Life), SASS Regulator, NRA (Life), Dirty Gamey Bastards #129 Wolverton Mtn. Peacekeepers (WA), former Orygun Cowboy (Ranger, Posse from Hell)

November 14, 2011, 07:02 PM	#4
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,468	Well, the barrel says "Made in Italy," so we can safely conclude that it's not an historic Colt in pristine condition. What caliber is it? Appears to be a clone of a .36 caliber 1851 Navy, but there are companies offering bastardized versions of that pistol in .44 caliber. Most likely candidates for manufacturer would be Uberti and Pietta. Other possibilities after that might include Pedersoli, Armi San Marco, and Armi Sport. Is there anything on the barrel that might suggest any of those names?

November 14, 2011, 07:26 PM	#5
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Armi San Marco, now defunct, based on the SM at the start of the barrel inscription. .44 cal 1851 Colt Navy pattern revolver. It's been partially defarbed, as all the frame markings (proof house logos, date code, etc.) are missing.

November 15, 2011, 09:37 AM	#7
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	If it was a kit gun that would explain the lack of frame and proof markings. It is a 51 Navy pattern but the wrong caliber to be a Navy. You can tell it's a .44 by the rebated cylinder. Light loads only in that brass frame. Heavy loads will beat it into a paper weight pretty quick