It worked for me

Ben Dover · May 22, 2013, 02:03 PM

As old age advanced, it began to take longer to assume kneeling and sitting positions to shoot from. About 15 years ago, arthritis made kneeling impossible.

Since prone is usually impractical in the field, and sitting was taking longer to into, I decided that perhaps it was time to expend serious effort in standing offhand.

I purchased a full case (5,000) Remington standard velocity .22 LR rounds and confined my shooting to off hand only. My .22 is an Anschutz 1416 with a 10X Leupold target scope.

I tried to fire a minimum of 100 well aimed shots per week. On warm weather camp outs, I often fired 250 per day for a week. First at 50 yards then 75, then 100.

I wish that iI could say that it was easy, but it wasn't. When the case of ammo ran out, I purchased another. after a year, I could see a great imptovement.

I then began to limit all rifle pracrice, to offhand, regardless of caliber. The AR-15 equiupped with a Trijicon ACOG is truly a joy to shoot offhand.

I niow feel comfortable shooting at game out to 200 yards offhand. If I have time to overcome the arthritis and assume a sitting position, it's almost as good as having a solid rest! Skill in offhand translates to skill in every position.

I know everyone has heard "practice-practice-practice" until you're sick of hearing it.

But my friends, it worked for me.

ThatBeardedGuy · May 22, 2013, 05:00 PM

I've given off-handed shooting and one-handed shooting with an AR a go a few times, but I really should apply some more practice to it. Useful techniques if you sustain an injury.

Jammer Six · May 23, 2013, 02:15 AM

Well done!

I'm a firm believer that rounds downrange is what matters, and a few dozen rounds per week over the course of a year will do you a lot more good than a thousand rounds twice a year.

Constant, steady training works "miracles".

kraigwy · May 23, 2013, 09:32 AM

Two things one mustn't neglect in off hand shooting is the value of a good coach to refine your position and don't underestimate the value of dry firing.

Having attended the NG MTU Coaches Clinic and coaching the AK NG rifle team for many years I thought I had the technique down.

Then I attended the CMP GSM Master Instructor's Course taught by Gary Anderson (Olympic Gold Medalist and still holds the Off Hand Record he set a long time ago) where I really learned proper technique of off hand.

Apply that technique with tons of dry firing and live fire.

Captain Edward C. Crossman has a great section in his book, "Military and Sporting Rifle Shooting" on Off Hand shooting.

Crossman has quite a background in International, High Power Rifle shooting, and coaching US International teams. His book was originally published in 1932 and when I compare it to the instruction by Gary Anderson, I realize they teach the same techniques when it comes to Off Hand.

Both stress the value of dry firing.

But like the OP stresses, it takes practice and lots of hard work.

Also you can't learn offhand (or any other venue of shooting) today and expect to do it tomorrow, you have to keep up you're work or what you gained will be lost.

Rifle matches are won and lost in the off hand position.

To the OP: Good post and congrats on your progress.

Venom1956 · May 23, 2013, 12:20 PM

I've been trying off hand. Everything just feels bizarre.

Epd230 · May 23, 2013, 02:02 PM

I find that I can shoot better with my off hand. Probably has alot to do with me placing my ego aside and concentrating on the basics.

Ben Dover · May 23, 2013, 03:14 PM

Captain Stuart,

Your points are very well taken. Crossman's book is excellent. I have yet to read Anderson's book. but I look forward to it.

There was one thing that I failed to mention in the first post. Once you've learned the basics of offhand, it's also a lot of fun!

But I would caution that when dry firing a rimfire, either use a target rifle designed for dry fire or use snap caps.

Erno86 · May 23, 2013, 03:32 PM

Ben D. - I also tend to shoot offhand quite a bit at our range. I love the Zen of shooting a rifle or pistol offhand --- though I have to much scope wobble when it is set around the 10x range --- so I prefer to set my scope power in the 4x range for a steadier sight picture; while shooting offhand.

Old Grump · May 23, 2013, 03:44 PM

Ben, I am happy to hear you joined the club and I bet you are a better shooter for it no matter what type or caliber gun you shoot.

I guess it's easier when you learn that way first.

Old codger status means kneeling is out because of two bad knees and prone is doable but takes 3 hours to get up, back hips and a bum shoulder make than an interesting experience. I try to get everybody to shoot offhand first before I teach position shooting.

My nephew was getting almost sick of shooting but in spite of everything he became adequate. My kids never did get beyond offhand but they could shoot expert by the time they were 12. Now they live in the Chicago area and don't shoot anymore, tis a shame.

Ben Dover · May 23, 2013, 10:14 PM

Grumpy.

I do believe we have much in common!:

One other little aside. Since starting the truly serious offhand practice, I have found that my ability to "snap shoot" very quickly has improved considerably.

Of course, snap shooting isn't as precise as deliberate shooting, but it has been putting rabbits in the freezer!

Dwight55 · May 24, 2013, 06:42 AM

Just a big "Thank You" to all who posted. If no one else needed the encouragement, . . . I did.

It takes me longer now to get down in the prone position than it used to take me to get down, shoot 5 and get up

Offhand and one knee down are about my only options now, . . . that's where my practice is going.

Also, just picked up a new press, . . . came with free bullets, . . . now I have a real good reason to shoot more, . . . (can't keep free bullets just laying around you know

).

May God bless,
Dwight

Ben Dover · May 24, 2013, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Just a big "Thank You" to all who posted. If no one else needed the encouragement, . . . I did

Dwight, the thought that a thread I started has encouraged another shooter has made my day!

Good luck in your enderavor.

Blue Duck · May 25, 2013, 08:22 AM

Yes, I agree. I have always practiced off hand a lot. I sight a gun in from the bench, then I practice from then on, mostly off hand, because I believe in practicing like I will probably shoot in the field.

I use a rest when I can, and I envy anyone who can get into a solid sitting position in the field, and I remember seeing pictures of Jack O'Conor in a sitting positon, shooting at long range. But a man has to know his limitations, as Eastwood would say.

And I never could get into a solid sitting position in the field, unless on a steep hill side or something, and Prone is usually not practical, due to brush, etc, not to mention sometimes it's wet and muddy.

I have killed deer at 200yds off hand, on several occasions, but I probably can't do as well now days as I was capable of when younger, because I don't practice as much. But as far as I am concerned Off hand shooting is your most important practice position.

Lost Sheep · May 25, 2013, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jammer Six

Well done!

I'm a firm believer that rounds downrange is what matters, and a few dozen rounds per week over the course of a year will do you a lot more good than a thousand rounds twice a year.

Constant, steady training works "miracles".

Amen and a second to that!

I recall reading in a gun magazine a while back of on guy who fired 366 rounds a year out of his lever action 30-30. One shot every morning from his front door at a rock 150 yards away on the hillside plus the one that he took his deer with on the first day of each annual hunting season.

For most of us, daily dry firing will have to do, maybe with one of those laser practice devices (that cost about half the price of a new gun). But once a week or two suffices for me.

Lost Sheep

May 22, 2013, 02:03 PM	#1
Ben Dover Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2013 Location: High up in the Rocky Moun Posts: 665	It worked for me As old age advanced, it began to take longer to assume kneeling and sitting positions to shoot from. About 15 years ago, arthritis made kneeling impossible. Since prone is usually impractical in the field, and sitting was taking longer to into, I decided that perhaps it was time to expend serious effort in standing offhand. I purchased a full case (5,000) Remington standard velocity .22 LR rounds and confined my shooting to off hand only. My .22 is an Anschutz 1416 with a 10X Leupold target scope. I tried to fire a minimum of 100 well aimed shots per week. On warm weather camp outs, I often fired 250 per day for a week. First at 50 yards then 75, then 100. I wish that iI could say that it was easy, but it wasn't. When the case of ammo ran out, I purchased another. after a year, I could see a great imptovement. I then began to limit all rifle pracrice, to offhand, regardless of caliber. The AR-15 equiupped with a Trijicon ACOG is truly a joy to shoot offhand. I niow feel comfortable shooting at game out to 200 yards offhand. If I have time to overcome the arthritis and assume a sitting position, it's almost as good as having a solid rest! Skill in offhand translates to skill in every position. I know everyone has heard "practice-practice-practice" until you're sick of hearing it. But my friends, it worked for me. __________________ The soldier's pack is not so heavy a burden as the prisoner's chains. Dwight Eisenhower It is very important what a man stands for. But it is far more important what a man refuses to stand for.

May 22, 2013, 05:00 PM	#2
ThatBeardedGuy Member Join Date: May 16, 2013 Posts: 86	I've given off-handed shooting and one-handed shooting with an AR a go a few times, but I really should apply some more practice to it. Useful techniques if you sustain an injury. __________________ TXARNG: 2007 - Present "We're gonna turn left!!" - NASCAR, in a nutshell.

May 23, 2013, 02:15 AM	#3
Jammer Six Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 827	Well done! I'm a firm believer that rounds downrange is what matters, and a few dozen rounds per week over the course of a year will do you a lot more good than a thousand rounds twice a year. Constant, steady training works "miracles". __________________ "Huh?" --Jammer Six, 1998

May 23, 2013, 09:32 AM	#4
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Two things one mustn't neglect in off hand shooting is the value of a good coach to refine your position and don't underestimate the value of dry firing. Having attended the NG MTU Coaches Clinic and coaching the AK NG rifle team for many years I thought I had the technique down. Then I attended the CMP GSM Master Instructor's Course taught by Gary Anderson (Olympic Gold Medalist and still holds the Off Hand Record he set a long time ago) where I really learned proper technique of off hand. Apply that technique with tons of dry firing and live fire. Captain Edward C. Crossman has a great section in his book, "Military and Sporting Rifle Shooting" on Off Hand shooting. Crossman has quite a background in International, High Power Rifle shooting, and coaching US International teams. His book was originally published in 1932 and when I compare it to the instruction by Gary Anderson, I realize they teach the same techniques when it comes to Off Hand. Both stress the value of dry firing. But like the OP stresses, it takes practice and lots of hard work. Also you can't learn offhand (or any other venue of shooting) today and expect to do it tomorrow, you have to keep up you're work or what you gained will be lost. Rifle matches are won and lost in the off hand position. To the OP: Good post and congrats on your progress. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

May 23, 2013, 12:20 PM	#5
Venom1956 Senior Member Join Date: October 4, 2008 Location: WI Posts: 3,656	I've been trying off hand. Everything just feels bizarre. __________________ E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system.- Yeah I can do that. I guarantee you will know it if a bicyclist hits your house going 1000 mph. -Smaug

May 23, 2013, 02:02 PM	#6
Epd230 Junior Member Join Date: May 22, 2013 Posts: 1	I find that I can shoot better with my off hand. Probably has alot to do with me placing my ego aside and concentrating on the basics.

May 23, 2013, 03:14 PM	#7
Ben Dover Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2013 Location: High up in the Rocky Moun Posts: 665	Captain Stuart, Your points are very well taken. Crossman's book is excellent. I have yet to read Anderson's book. but I look forward to it. There was one thing that I failed to mention in the first post. Once you've learned the basics of offhand, it's also a lot of fun! But I would caution that when dry firing a rimfire, either use a target rifle designed for dry fire or use snap caps. __________________ The soldier's pack is not so heavy a burden as the prisoner's chains. Dwight Eisenhower It is very important what a man stands for. But it is far more important what a man refuses to stand for.

May 23, 2013, 03:32 PM	#8
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,739	Ben D. - I also tend to shoot offhand quite a bit at our range. I love the Zen of shooting a rifle or pistol offhand --- though I have to much scope wobble when it is set around the 10x range --- so I prefer to set my scope power in the 4x range for a steadier sight picture; while shooting offhand. __________________ That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." --- George Orwell

May 23, 2013, 03:44 PM	#9
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	Ben, I am happy to hear you joined the club and I bet you are a better shooter for it no matter what type or caliber gun you shoot. I guess it's easier when you learn that way first. Old codger status means kneeling is out because of two bad knees and prone is doable but takes 3 hours to get up, back hips and a bum shoulder make than an interesting experience. I try to get everybody to shoot offhand first before I teach position shooting. My nephew was getting almost sick of shooting but in spite of everything he became adequate. My kids never did get beyond offhand but they could shoot expert by the time they were 12. Now they live in the Chicago area and don't shoot anymore, tis a shame. __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

May 23, 2013, 10:14 PM	#10
Ben Dover Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2013 Location: High up in the Rocky Moun Posts: 665	Grumpy. I do believe we have much in common!: One other little aside. Since starting the truly serious offhand practice, I have found that my ability to "snap shoot" very quickly has improved considerably. Of course, snap shooting isn't as precise as deliberate shooting, but it has been putting rabbits in the freezer! __________________ The soldier's pack is not so heavy a burden as the prisoner's chains. Dwight Eisenhower It is very important what a man stands for. But it is far more important what a man refuses to stand for.

May 24, 2013, 06:42 AM	#11
Dwight55 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 2,568	Just a big "Thank You" to all who posted. If no one else needed the encouragement, . . . I did. It takes me longer now to get down in the prone position than it used to take me to get down, shoot 5 and get up Offhand and one knee down are about my only options now, . . . that's where my practice is going. Also, just picked up a new press, . . . came with free bullets, . . . now I have a real good reason to shoot more, . . . (can't keep free bullets just laying around you know ). May God bless, Dwight __________________ www.dwightsgunleather.com If you can breathe, . . . thank God! If you can read, . . . thank a teacher! If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran!

May 25, 2013, 08:22 AM	#13
Blue Duck Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 2006 Posts: 402	Yes, I agree. I have always practiced off hand a lot. I sight a gun in from the bench, then I practice from then on, mostly off hand, because I believe in practicing like I will probably shoot in the field. I use a rest when I can, and I envy anyone who can get into a solid sitting position in the field, and I remember seeing pictures of Jack O'Conor in a sitting positon, shooting at long range. But a man has to know his limitations, as Eastwood would say. And I never could get into a solid sitting position in the field, unless on a steep hill side or something, and Prone is usually not practical, due to brush, etc, not to mention sometimes it's wet and muddy. I have killed deer at 200yds off hand, on several occasions, but I probably can't do as well now days as I was capable of when younger, because I don't practice as much. But as far as I am concerned Off hand shooting is your most important practice position.

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