need loading recipes for 38 short and long colt in smokeless

coonan357 · May 14, 2002, 02:43 AM

My female friend mentioned to one of her friends husands that I reloaded ammo and was asked if I would reload .38 short or long colt shells , this person is willing to pay for the dies and supplies as he cannot find preloaded ammo in this caliber . I found starline brass in the sizes I need now I need to find reloading info on these 2 cartridges , I looked in all my books (lee,lyman ,speer, cartridge Id book ) and haven't found any listings . does someone have any recipes to use ? or a source for these recipes ? I understand to release you of all liabilitys, these are NOT .38 special loads, but colt loads . thanks in advance

Jim Watson · May 14, 2002, 09:39 AM

I would sure be curious and cautious about loading .38 LC and especially .38 SC for the husband of a friend of a friend. Just what is he shooting? It has been a long time since they made .38 Colts.

Anyhow, Ten-X sells .38 LC
www.ten-x.com

I don't know a source for .38 SC ammo at all. The guns built for it were really dinky.

Cartridge Conversions by Maj George C. Nonte lists the calibers, but I'd rather not quote him for fifth-hand use, the loads were not likely pressure tested. See if you can round up the book.

Pigshooter · May 14, 2002, 10:04 AM

Lee shows dies for 38 New Police, 38 short colt and 38 long colt. If you are going to order dies from them, it would be worth it to see if they come with the standard load data sheet that their dies usually contain. They tend to be pretty up-front and prompt about these inquiries.

Did anyone on loadyourown.com know?

For the 38 New Police, Vihta shows a max of 3.5gr N340 ynder a 146gr LRN, OAL 1.181, but this is a whole different bullet (also called the 38S&W). I include it so you can compare to be sure that is not what he has.

Here is a discussion of the short colt loading, take it with a grain of salt:

http://talk.shooters.com/room_34/772.cfm

And this site raises a question about what the diameter really should be, before you start getting components together:

http://www2.whidbey.com/deadeye/38&357.htm

I would definitely slug the chambers and the barrel. Starline brass for 38LC I think is just 38spl brass that is shortened, but I have read where it needs a taper in some chambers, as does the 38SC.

Here is another discussion that deals with the two, but they are talking about using 9mm and 38SA data, sounds fishy to me:

http://talk.shooters.com/room_34/Mar032002.cfm

Wassup man? Sniff any nitro fumes lately? I'll shoot you an email later.

**Mike Irwin** · May 14, 2002, 11:44 AM

The Colt New Police is NOT the correct die set for .38 Short/Long Colt. Just want to emphasize that so the wrong die set isn't ordered...

The .38 Colt New Police casing is dimensionally the same as the .38 S&W. Colt gave it their name when they started chambering that round instead of the .38 Short Colt.

I THINK .38 Long Colt can be loaded using .38 Spl. dies, as the case dimensions are identical other than length. I THINK that the same is true for the Short Colt.

Bullet seating, though, may be a problem, and crimping would be out of the question, of course.

And I thought that someone was still loading the .38 Short Colt? Or am I thinking of the .32 Short Colt?

C.R.Sam · May 14, 2002, 04:17 PM

Jim Watson has extremely valid point.
Loading for friend of friend can be hazardous to your liability insurance.

Caution.

I have bullseye loads for both cartridges but the data dates from when the cartridges were currant. Guns are older and the power has changed over the last 80+ years.

Sam

coonan357 · May 14, 2002, 04:56 PM

well the person might back out when they see the price of the new brass,dies and ect .. I think remington still sells the .38 short but it is hard to find. I haven't seen .38 long sold since I was a kid for one of my grandfathers guns , he's still has it and the ammo . and if i remember its blackpowder loads that he has .oh well thanks for the help , and P.shooter after 3 inches of rain in 24 hours I think its going to be awhile before the smell of nitro fills the air around here .

**Mike Irwin** · May 14, 2002, 05:27 PM

OK,

Remington is still cataloging the .38 Short Colt.

http://www.remington.com/ammo/ballis...r/38shcbal.htm

You'll probably have to special order it and pay for it in advance.

Wouldn't be surprised to find out that it's bringing $20 a box of 50 or more.

Pigshooter · May 15, 2002, 10:53 AM

Thanks, Mike, I didn't stress that enough. I know Coonan357 is pretty careful, though. I just posted it to remind him there is a similar but different cartridge.

I would definitely slug the barrel and the cylinders. Add a slug sizing kit from beartooth to the price.

But the first thing might be simplest; get the firearm appraised. It may not be worth taking a chance with, if it is valuable.

coonan357 · May 16, 2002, 02:51 AM

after talking on one of the other boards I belong to I found a bunch of info on this gun and found out that there is 2 different types of bullets used and 4 styles of cases and I have put this project on hold with the guy due to some serious expenses that might incur .I am recommending he make it into a wall hanger .

C.R.Sam · May 16, 2002, 08:42 AM

Sounds like a good idea all round.

Nice hanging box with gun, old magazine ad for backing and maby the face of an old ammo box. Just thinkin.

Sam

**Mike Irwin** · May 16, 2002, 10:43 AM

Coonan,

What gun does the guy have?

coonan357 · May 16, 2002, 08:13 PM

its a old colt revolver I have to look at in person again to find out , I am going to get the serials off it and give it a real good once over. I am not to familair with old colts or any colts for that matter . I will let you know as soon as I can look at it . but like I said it's not looking too good . and Sam I like your Idea can almost picture it , from what i understand it was a hand me down.

May 14, 2002, 02:43 AM	#1
coonan357 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2002 Location: in a state of confusion and disbelief ! Posts: 726	need loading recipes for 38 short and long colt in smokeless My female friend mentioned to one of her friends husands that I reloaded ammo and was asked if I would reload .38 short or long colt shells , this person is willing to pay for the dies and supplies as he cannot find preloaded ammo in this caliber . I found starline brass in the sizes I need now I need to find reloading info on these 2 cartridges , I looked in all my books (lee,lyman ,speer, cartridge Id book ) and haven't found any listings . does someone have any recipes to use ? or a source for these recipes ? I understand to release you of all liabilitys, these are NOT .38 special loads, but colt loads . thanks in advance __________________ N.R.A. Lifer and proud of it ! You can't argue with a .357 Mag. Well, you can try, but you'll end up bleeding an aweful lot. -GEORGE HILL 4-08-2002 My Coonan is Not For Sale please do not ask!

May 14, 2002, 11:44 AM	#4
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,379	The Colt New Police is NOT the correct die set for .38 Short/Long Colt. Just want to emphasize that so the wrong die set isn't ordered... The .38 Colt New Police casing is dimensionally the same as the .38 S&W. Colt gave it their name when they started chambering that round instead of the .38 Short Colt. I THINK .38 Long Colt can be loaded using .38 Spl. dies, as the case dimensions are identical other than length. I THINK that the same is true for the Short Colt. Bullet seating, though, may be a problem, and crimping would be out of the question, of course. And I thought that someone was still loading the .38 Short Colt? Or am I thinking of the .32 Short Colt? __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

May 14, 2002, 04:56 PM	#6
coonan357 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2002 Location: in a state of confusion and disbelief ! Posts: 726	well the person might back out when they see the price of the new brass,dies and ect .. I think remington still sells the .38 short but it is hard to find. I haven't seen .38 long sold since I was a kid for one of my grandfathers guns , he's still has it and the ammo . and if i remember its blackpowder loads that he has .oh well thanks for the help , and P.shooter after 3 inches of rain in 24 hours I think its going to be awhile before the smell of nitro fills the air around here . __________________ N.R.A. Lifer and proud of it ! You can't argue with a .357 Mag. Well, you can try, but you'll end up bleeding an aweful lot. -GEORGE HILL 4-08-2002 My Coonan is Not For Sale please do not ask!

May 14, 2002, 05:27 PM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,379	OK, Remington is still cataloging the .38 Short Colt. http://www.remington.com/ammo/ballis...r/38shcbal.htm You'll probably have to special order it and pay for it in advance. Wouldn't be surprised to find out that it's bringing $20 a box of 50 or more. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

May 16, 2002, 02:51 AM	#9
coonan357 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2002 Location: in a state of confusion and disbelief ! Posts: 726	after talking on one of the other boards I belong to I found a bunch of info on this gun and found out that there is 2 different types of bullets used and 4 styles of cases and I have put this project on hold with the guy due to some serious expenses that might incur .I am recommending he make it into a wall hanger . __________________ N.R.A. Lifer and proud of it ! You can't argue with a .357 Mag. Well, you can try, but you'll end up bleeding an aweful lot. -GEORGE HILL 4-08-2002 My Coonan is Not For Sale please do not ask!

May 14, 2002, 09:39 AM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,529	I would sure be curious and cautious about loading .38 LC and especially .38 SC for the husband of a friend of a friend. Just what is he shooting? It has been a long time since they made .38 Colts. Anyhow, Ten-X sells .38 LC www.ten-x.com I don't know a source for .38 SC ammo at all. The guns built for it were really dinky. Cartridge Conversions by Maj George C. Nonte lists the calibers, but I'd rather not quote him for fifth-hand use, the loads were not likely pressure tested. See if you can round up the book.

May 14, 2002, 10:04 AM	#3
Pigshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2001 Location: Euless, TX Posts: 334	Lee shows dies for 38 New Police, 38 short colt and 38 long colt. If you are going to order dies from them, it would be worth it to see if they come with the standard load data sheet that their dies usually contain. They tend to be pretty up-front and prompt about these inquiries. Did anyone on loadyourown.com know? For the 38 New Police, Vihta shows a max of 3.5gr N340 ynder a 146gr LRN, OAL 1.181, but this is a whole different bullet (also called the 38S&W). I include it so you can compare to be sure that is not what he has. Here is a discussion of the short colt loading, take it with a grain of salt: http://talk.shooters.com/room_34/772.cfm And this site raises a question about what the diameter really should be, before you start getting components together: http://www2.whidbey.com/deadeye/38&357.htm I would definitely slug the chambers and the barrel. Starline brass for 38LC I think is just 38spl brass that is shortened, but I have read where it needs a taper in some chambers, as does the 38SC. Here is another discussion that deals with the two, but they are talking about using 9mm and 38SA data, sounds fishy to me: http://talk.shooters.com/room_34/Mar032002.cfm Wassup man? Sniff any nitro fumes lately? I'll shoot you an email later.

May 14, 2002, 04:17 PM	#5
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Jim Watson has extremely valid point. Loading for friend of friend can be hazardous to your liability insurance. Caution. I have bullseye loads for both cartridges but the data dates from when the cartridges were currant. Guns are older and the power has changed over the last 80+ years. Sam

May 15, 2002, 10:53 AM	#8
Pigshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 2001 Location: Euless, TX Posts: 334	Thanks, Mike, I didn't stress that enough. I know Coonan357 is pretty careful, though. I just posted it to remind him there is a similar but different cartridge. I would definitely slug the barrel and the cylinders. Add a slug sizing kit from beartooth to the price. But the first thing might be simplest; get the firearm appraised. It may not be worth taking a chance with, if it is valuable.

May 16, 2002, 08:42 AM	#10
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Sounds like a good idea all round. Nice hanging box with gun, old magazine ad for backing and maby the face of an old ammo box. Just thinkin. Sam

May 16, 2002, 10:43 AM	#11
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,379	Coonan, What gun does the guy have? __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

May 16, 2002, 08:13 PM	#12
coonan357 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2002 Location: in a state of confusion and disbelief ! Posts: 726	its a old colt revolver I have to look at in person again to find out , I am going to get the serials off it and give it a real good once over. I am not to familair with old colts or any colts for that matter . I will let you know as soon as I can look at it . but like I said it's not looking too good . and Sam I like your Idea can almost picture it , from what i understand it was a hand me down. __________________ N.R.A. Lifer and proud of it ! You can't argue with a .357 Mag. Well, you can try, but you'll end up bleeding an aweful lot. -GEORGE HILL 4-08-2002 My Coonan is Not For Sale please do not ask!

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