Who made it?

Uncle Buck · February 3, 2010, 09:27 AM

I have what appears to be a Model 1851 Navy, Cap and Ball revolver. It is in extremely poor condition and will never be fired again. The brass frame is stretched so that when the pistol is put together (I took it apart to clean it) the barrel assembly has a lot of play in it. There are three screws on the side of the frame, and looks just as in the picture I saw located in the Blue Book of Gun Values, 13th edition, page 46.

Anyway, the only markings I can find are:

One the bottom of the grip: Italy and what appears to be an EG inside of a double circle with a line going through side to side and top to bottom. and what appears to be part of a proof mark BN I believe. Italy ((EG)) BA

The hand-grip is one piece, with a slot cut in it so it will accept the brass strip and attach to the pistol.

On the loading lever is the number 53.

On the bottom of the pistol, where it attaches to the brass frame is the number, which I believe is the serial number: 33186

The cylinder is marked with Italian Proof Marks.

The brass frame has three marks on it: Two Italian proof marks and the number XXV (I believe the number means manufactured in 1969)

I believe it is .36 caliber (My dial calipers show the bore to be .359")

This gun has no shooting value and is dirtier than a coal miners cheek. I bought it from a lady who found it in a box from an estate auction.

I have no way of posting pictures, but any help would be greatly appreciated. I paid $80.00 for it and intend to make it a wall hanger.

pvt.Long · February 3, 2010, 01:45 PM

Pietta or ubritti. Reproduction. what kind of play are you talking about?

Hawg · February 3, 2010, 02:40 PM

Not Pietta or Uberti. There were a lot of small gun makers turning out repros during the time period that are now gone. EG is the manufacturers stamp but I don't know who's it is but it's not one of the more common ones.

To3T@g · February 3, 2010, 03:18 PM

look under the barell! from what u discribed it sound like an 1851 navy that i have(only mine is in good condition and perfectly shootable) mine is an ASM built in early 90s! stands for ARMY SAN MARCO! there is also ASP ARMY SAN PAOLO! both makers are out of buisness now,but i think ASM is owned by euro arms now if im not mistaken. but check under the loading lever on the bottom side of the barell and see if theres not an ASM or ASP under there! Ill bet there is. Hope this helps some.

Major 2 · February 3, 2010, 07:28 PM

1969 is correct....
I think it may be Enrico Grassi ( one of the founders of ARMY SAN PAOLO and one of the G's in DGG for Grassi, Doninelli & Gazzola
ARMY SAN PAOLO became part Euro-Arms in 2001 (not Army San Marco)
ARMY SAN PAOLO used DGG in a circle and began production in 1970.

Uberti has used the same stamp since 1959 a Capital U in octagon shape
Pietta uses a diamond with FAP within.
Pedersoli uses lower case dp in an oval. (there are 2 earlier symbols however)
Palmetto a palm tree in a circle.
and AC in circle is Armi Chiappa

So those are out....

Gardone VT will have two Proof Marks - a Star over PN since 1950 - and an a Star over a Hammer & Anvil for Gardone & Bresica ( a BP proof ) black powder arms will have both marks.

Uncle Buck · February 4, 2010, 09:35 AM

Under the patina of rust on the barrel, I have also found EIG NAVY, along with what is mentioned in my original post, that is it for the markings.

I will have to break down and get the Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Arms and do a little more research. So I know it was made by EIG Italy and now I am curious about the company. Another reference manual will never hurt anyone.

Pvt. Long: The deflection of the barrel is .030", I can rock the barrel back and forth. The bar which holds the cylinder can be screwed in a little more, but then the wedge will not line up and I can not secure the barrel to the rest of the gun.

I have never owned a black powder handgun before (although I have shot a few) and believe this is what they are talking about when people mention the brass frame stretching. I do not know what is considered dangerous when it comes to frame stretch, but do not want to fool around with something like this.

Thanks for everyone's help with this.

madcratebuilder · February 4, 2010, 10:04 AM

I have a first ed. and sixth ed. bp blue book and EIG is not in either edition. There is a discussion on EIG going on over at voy. http://www.voy.com/60048/

You might find something here.
http://rprca.tripod.com/

Uncle Buck · February 4, 2010, 07:28 PM

Thanks Madcratebuilder, I'll check them out.

Major 2 · February 4, 2010, 07:28 PM

The EIG Navy helps...

EIG Importers Miami, Florida.

February 3, 2010, 09:27 AM	#1
Uncle Buck Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 2,592	Who made it? I have what appears to be a Model 1851 Navy, Cap and Ball revolver. It is in extremely poor condition and will never be fired again. The brass frame is stretched so that when the pistol is put together (I took it apart to clean it) the barrel assembly has a lot of play in it. There are three screws on the side of the frame, and looks just as in the picture I saw located in the Blue Book of Gun Values, 13th edition, page 46. Anyway, the only markings I can find are: One the bottom of the grip: Italy and what appears to be an EG inside of a double circle with a line going through side to side and top to bottom. and what appears to be part of a proof mark BN I believe. Italy ((EG)) BA The hand-grip is one piece, with a slot cut in it so it will accept the brass strip and attach to the pistol. On the loading lever is the number 53. On the bottom of the pistol, where it attaches to the brass frame is the number, which I believe is the serial number: 33186 The cylinder is marked with Italian Proof Marks. The brass frame has three marks on it: Two Italian proof marks and the number XXV (I believe the number means manufactured in 1969) I believe it is .36 caliber (My dial calipers show the bore to be .359") This gun has no shooting value and is dirtier than a coal miners cheek. I bought it from a lady who found it in a box from an estate auction. I have no way of posting pictures, but any help would be greatly appreciated. I paid $80.00 for it and intend to make it a wall hanger. __________________ Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen.

February 3, 2010, 07:28 PM	#5
Major 2 Member Join Date: December 6, 2009 Posts: 47	1969 is correct.... I think it may be Enrico Grassi ( one of the founders of ARMY SAN PAOLO and one of the G's in DGG for Grassi, Doninelli & Gazzola ARMY SAN PAOLO became part Euro-Arms in 2001 (not Army San Marco) ARMY SAN PAOLO used DGG in a circle and began production in 1970. Uberti has used the same stamp since 1959 a Capital U in octagon shape Pietta uses a diamond with FAP within. Pedersoli uses lower case dp in an oval. (there are 2 earlier symbols however) Palmetto a palm tree in a circle. and AC in circle is Armi Chiappa So those are out.... Gardone VT will have two Proof Marks - a Star over PN since 1950 - and an a Star over a Hammer & Anvil for Gardone & Bresica ( a BP proof ) black powder arms will have both marks. Last edited by Major 2; February 3, 2010 at 07:48 PM.

February 4, 2010, 09:35 AM	#6
Uncle Buck Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 2,592	Under the patina of rust on the barrel, I have also found EIG NAVY, along with what is mentioned in my original post, that is it for the markings. I will have to break down and get the Blue Book of Modern Black Powder Arms and do a little more research. So I know it was made by EIG Italy and now I am curious about the company. Another reference manual will never hurt anyone. Pvt. Long: The deflection of the barrel is .030", I can rock the barrel back and forth. The bar which holds the cylinder can be screwed in a little more, but then the wedge will not line up and I can not secure the barrel to the rest of the gun. I have never owned a black powder handgun before (although I have shot a few) and believe this is what they are talking about when people mention the brass frame stretching. I do not know what is considered dangerous when it comes to frame stretch, but do not want to fool around with something like this. Thanks for everyone's help with this. __________________ Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen.

February 4, 2010, 07:28 PM	#8
Uncle Buck Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 2,592	Thanks Madcratebuilder, I'll check them out. __________________ Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen.

February 3, 2010, 01:45 PM	#2
pvt.Long Senior Member Join Date: March 7, 2009 Posts: 433	Pietta or ubritti. Reproduction. what kind of play are you talking about?

February 3, 2010, 02:40 PM	#3
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Not Pietta or Uberti. There were a lot of small gun makers turning out repros during the time period that are now gone. EG is the manufacturers stamp but I don't know who's it is but it's not one of the more common ones.

February 3, 2010, 03:18 PM	#4
To3T@g Member Join Date: January 10, 2010 Location: Auburn Alabama Posts: 65	look under the barell! from what u discribed it sound like an 1851 navy that i have(only mine is in good condition and perfectly shootable) mine is an ASM built in early 90s! stands for ARMY SAN MARCO! there is also ASP ARMY SAN PAOLO! both makers are out of buisness now,but i think ASM is owned by euro arms now if im not mistaken. but check under the loading lever on the bottom side of the barell and see if theres not an ASM or ASP under there! Ill bet there is. Hope this helps some.

February 4, 2010, 10:04 AM	#7
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	I have a first ed. and sixth ed. bp blue book and EIG is not in either edition. There is a discussion on EIG going on over at voy. http://www.voy.com/60048/ You might find something here. http://rprca.tripod.com/