What's in your Bug Out Bag?

[butch50]

Coleman, try answering my questions, out of courtesy and to show that you are actually interested in the discussion as opposed to enjoying a bit of baiting, and then I will try answering yours.

Thanks

Butch

[buzz_knox]

That's because the answers don't make any sense. Why would you prepare for something that has a extremely miniscule chance of happening, but not prepare for something that is several thousands times more likely to kill you?

They don't make sense or don't make sense to you? That is a very major distinction. On this thread, people have discussed conerns they have involving earthquakes, tornadoes, tsunamis, etc. These events occur far more frequently than once in a life time, and if you spend some time on the forums, you'll actually find people who have used bug out bags and gear in the course of surviving said event. So, the answer there makes perfect sense, if you're willing to get out of the "these people are paranoid 'cause this stuff doesn't happen" box.

As for your response to my statement concerning the asteroid concern, I based it on the public statements of those charged with searching the skies. If you have an issue with that or information superior to theirs, please contact them. They would be glad to know their concerns are overrated.

As for the discussion of the gov't failing, you asked a question and I answered it. If that answer doesn't make sense, please contact the federal gov't who has ordered all agencies to carry out Continuity of Operations preparation for many of the reasons I've stated.

[buzz_knox]

First off, what do you mean by the "government collapsing"? Explain to me what would cause this, since you seem to think it's possible and could be in your life time. History is important, but everything is relative. Government isn't the same as it was in the 16th century, nore is anything else.

Asked and answered. But since you won't accept those answers, try this.

Yes, gov't isn't the same as it was. It's more vulnearable because nothing is the same. The gov't isn't based on the power of a ruling class which controls via either divine right and (more typically) by virtue of its historical control of wealth. It's based on a very delicate interconnection of beliefs (i.e. paper money has value, and giving money to Washington provides some form of return) which have no value except that which we give them, and which is merged into an incredibly complex structure. That structure is vulnearable to the effects of natural and artificial disasters. And once one part of the structure fails, the others will be crippled. This doesn't require contemplation of meteor strikes or rogue comets; it just requires an understanding of how delicate and fragile things are.

Gov't fall in the 21st century just like they did in the 16th . . or the 20th. Take a look at how many gov'ts fell in the last century, despite being less vulnearable to technological attack.

[joab]

2001 Argentine government collapsed due to economic crisis sparking massive public unrest

recently Iraq,s government collapse rather dramatically the new one will collapse within 10 years (personal prediction)

Many people predict an economic collapse in the US in the next 10 to 20 years

Elements within the Irish government are threatening an orchestrated collapse now

In 1975 Pnomh Phen was emptied in an afternoon by militaristic zealots and the people forced into rural agrarian lifestyles despite the existence of modern cities, which also were forcefully evacuated

The Japanese Yen recently weakened due to fears of the Japanese governments imminent collapse over the issue of nationalizing the postal system

And again I ask you what every day imminent disasters are we overlooking in preparing a BOB

[Topthis]

Dude, the post about the ripped dollar to coordinate GPS etc.....was a joke! Hooooo boy!!!

[butch50]

NEWS BRIEF: "It Is Time To Cast a Worried Eye Towards Yellowstone", 22-August-2003, Larry Park and Marshall Masters


"Yesterday afternoon, a 4.4 magnitude earthquake occurred just 9 miles southeast of the south entrance to Yellowstone National Park ... given the shallow depth of this quake, the volcanism model developed by Larry Park has suddenly lurched us a huge step towards a worst-case eruption event. Simply put, anyone living within 600 miles of Yellowstone could be sitting in a modern day Pompeii. In addition, for those living outside this area and West of the Mississippi River, there could be grievous consequences as well, because systemic processes are now building beneath Yellowstone that paint a very clear picture of a major eruption event in its early stages."

What specific signs convinced these authors that the Yellowstone Super-Volcano is about ready to blow, and may actually be in the beginning stages? The huge land deformation in this area is the major sign that a "Slow Earthquake" of enormous size and devastation may actually now be under way. What is a "land deformation"? When a volcano is building hot magma within its crater, the magma will push against the rock from the inside; at the weakest part of the rock formation comprising the crater walls, the magma will begin to push upward and/or outward, creating a "rock or land deformation". When Mt. St. Helens blew up May, 18, 1980, that explosion was preceded by some months of a visible rock deformation that extended outward about 450 feet.

"By May 17, more than 10,000 earthquakes had shaken the volcano and the north flank had grown outward at least 450 feet to form a noticeable bulge. Such dramatic deformation of the volcano was strong evidence that molten rock (magma) had risen high into the volcano." ["Mount St. Helens – From the 1980 Eruption to 2000", USGS,

From this USGS document, you can see them admit that the rock deformation on the crater "was strong evidence that molten rock (magma) had risen high into the volcano." Indeed, this is the opinion of a professor of Geology. Listen:

"Volcanos are an awesome display of Nature's power ... It is, therefore, necessary to closely monitor the volcanoes in order to mitigate the hazards arising from an eruption. Ground surface deformation can give clues to magmatic processes at depth and is a reliable indicator of an impending eruption." ["GPS On The Web: GPS Volcano Deformation Monitoring", Volker Janssen, School of Surveying and Information Systems, The University of South Wales ]

Once again, the key point: "Ground surface deformation ... is a reliable indicator of an impending eruption."

Now, let us turn toward the rock deformation of the Yellowstone Super-Volcano to see how large the rock deformation is in Yellowstone Park.

NEWS BRIEF: "Park lake hints at buildup to huge blast', DenverPost.com, Sunday, August 10, 2003.

"YELLOWSTONE NATIONAL PARK, Wyo. - The mystery of the deep at picturesque Yellowstone Lake is a bulge that rises 100 feet from the lake floor, stretches the length of seven football fields, and has the potential to explode at any time. Of all the life-threatening events that could happen at Yellowstone - from volcanic eruptions to massive earthquakes - this type of hydrothermal explosion is likely the most immediate, serious hazard in the park ... Denver-based geologists have discovered a towering mound that has swollen to the size of seven football fields at the bottom of Yellowstone Lake."

Thus, we have a rock deformation that absolutely dwarfs the maximum deformation at Mt. St. Helens (450 feet). The dimensions of this rock deformation at the bottom of Yellowstone Lake are 100 feet high by 2,100 feet wide! But, this is not the only rock deformation bulging upward and outward in the Yellowstone Park Super-Volcano! Going back to our Denver Post article, we learn:

"Just south of Norris basin is a bulge in the earth about 28 miles across and 7 miles deep that has pushed the ground up more than 5 inches since 1996, according to research by Chuck Wicks, a geophysicist with the U.S. Geological Survey in Menlo Park, California ... This summer already has shown signs that the caldera remains wide awake. Norris Geyser Basin, the hottest thermal area in Yellowstone, sprouted new mud pots. Ground temperature on the trail soared to 200 degrees Fahrenheit, too hot to touch. Porkchop Geyser, dormant since 1989, erupted on July 16. Park officials responded by barring access to half of the 2 miles of Norris Geyser trails." [Ibid.] These two "mud pots" are approximately 70 feet high and 2,300 feet long!

Thus, these two huge rock deformations are clear indications that a potentially massive movement of magma that will cause a Super-Volcano explosion is already underway! Remember the insight from this professor: "Ground surface deformation ... is a reliable indicator of an impending eruption."

In our subtitle, above, we stated that this Yellowstone Super-Volcano was 20,000 years past due. Let us review that story:

NEWS BRIEF: "Super Volcanoes: Satellites Eye Deadly Hot Spots", Space.com, 07 August 2001

"... no one can say if or when it might become dangerously active. If a volcano is like a hibernating bear, however, then it may well be volcanic springtime in Yellowstone. Super explosions, about 1,000 times more material erupted than Mt. St. Helens in 1980, happen about every 600,000 years at Yellowstone,' Wicks says. 'And it's been about 620,000 years since the last super explosive eruption there."

This article then describes the effects of the blow-up of a Super Volcano:

"... Likewise, the eruption of Mt. St. Helens in 1980 was a volcanic sneeze compared to what scientists say America will experience one day. And a mysterious four-inch-high bulge in the ground of central Oregon is, so far, little more than a conversation piece. Sooner or later, geologists warn, a 'super volcano' will strike. The eruption of pent-up energy will cover half the United States in ash, in some places up to 3 feet (1 meter) deep. Earth will be plunged into a perpetual winter that would last years. Some plant and animal species will disappear forever. Even humans could be pushed to the edge of extinction." [Ibid.]

An excerpt from an article on super-volcanoes.

[buzz_knox]

Yellowstone doesn't worry me. A lot of the concerns about it are overblown. And if it does go off, a bug out bag won't help much. Being in the Southern hemisphere might, but I don't think a bag would help me make it down there.

[Topthis]

Now...this event would take a very well thought out, not to mention HUGE BoB!!

[butch50]

On the other hand, why surrender? Some people somewhere will survive, who will they be? Down here in Texas I think I can be one of the survivors, I sure would try to be.

But, that is meant to be just a concrete example of what can happen in our lifetimes.

[butch50]

Buzz, check this out:

The western part of Tennessee was shaken strongly by the New Madrid, Missouri, earthquake of 1811 - 1812 and by earthquakes in 1843 and 1895. The area has also experienced minor shocks. Additional activity has occurred in the eastern part of the State, near the North Carolina border.

The three great earthquakes that occurred in the Upper Mississippi region near New Madrid in 1811 - 1812 rank among the most significant events in U.S. history. maximum intensity for each of the large shocks is estimated at XII. Topographic changes were noted over an area of 75,00 to 130,00 square kilometers; the total area shaken was at least 5 million square kilometers. Damage was very small for such great earthquakes because of sparse population. Chimneys were knocked down in many places in Tennessee, Kentucky, and Missouri. The most seriously affected area was characterized by raised and sunken lands, fissures, sinks, sand blows, and large landslides. The most typical sunken land is Reelfoot Lake in Tennessee. This lake is from 12 to 16 kilometers in length and from 3 to 5 kilometers in width. The submergence ranged from 1.5 to perhaps 6 meters, although greater depths were reported.

On January 4, 1843, a severe earthquake (intensity VIII) affected Memphis and other places in western Tennessee. The shock was reported to have laster 2 minutes, though this is probably exaggerated. Walls were cracked, chimneys fell, and windows were broken. The total felt area was about 1 million square kilometers. The shock was strongly felt in Knoxville and caused considerable alarm but did no damage. It was also sharply felt in Nashville. Another tremor on November 28, 1844, caused some bricks to fall from chimneys in Knoxville (VI). Windows and dishes rattled and sounds like distant thunder were heard. Memphis experienced additional damage from a July 19, 1895, earthquake. Walls and chimneys cracked, and people were in panic (VI).

A strong shock centered at Knoxville on March 28, 1913, was felt over an area of 7,000 square kilometers in eastern Tennessee. Two shocks were felt in many places. Movable objects were overthrown, and bricks fell from chimneys (VII). A number of false alarms were set off at fire stations.

Buildings throughout the city shook violently. The Knox County Courthouse, a massive brick structure, trembled noticeably. People outdoors experienced a distinct rise and fall in the ground; there were some cases of nausea.

Another earthquake in the Mississippi Valley region caused damage in Tennessee and Arkansas on May 7, 1927. It was strongest at Jonesboro, Arkansas, where some chimneys fell (VII). However, the felt area indicated that the epicenter was farther to the east, in Tennessee. Damage there was limited to the shattering of window panes and breaking of dishes in the Memphis area. Many people were awakened by the early morning (2:28 AM) rapid rocking motion; in addition, surface and subterranean sounds were heard. The shock was also felt in parts of Alabama, Illinois, Kentucky, Mississippi, and Missouri, an area of about 337,000 square kilometers.

A sizable area in western Tennessee was affected by a fairly strong earthquake centered near Covington on November 16, 1941. Cracks appeared in the courthouse at Covington, where the tremor was noticed by everyone (V-VI). At Henning, it was felt by many, and an explosive noise preceded the trembling. The shock was also felt at Dyersburg, Frayser, Memphis, Millington, Pleasant Hill, and Ripley.

Dyersburg was the center of another disturbance on July 16, 1952. The press reported numerous cracks in a concrete-block structure. The earthquake was felt by nearly all, and many persons were frightened (VI). It was also felt at Finley and Jenkinsville. A weak aftershock was felt by a few people.

An earthquake centered near the Arkansas - Tennessee border (near Finley) awakened many residents on January 25, 1955. The 1:24 AM shock broke windows and damaged plaster walls at Finley, where it was felt by all (VI). The total felt area, including points in Illinois and Kentucky, covered about 75,000 square kilometers.

An early morning shock (3:02 AM) on March 29, 1955, was felt by everyone in Finley (VI). Plaster was cracked in one home. A roaring noise and violent shaking were reported. The tremor was felt by many at Caruthersville, Missouri.

Minor damage occurred at Covington from a January 28, 1956, earthquake. Chimneys and walls were cracked (VI). Many were awakened at Covington, and the press reported some residents left their homes at Henning. The shock was also felt in Arkansas and Missouri. Two tremors about 13 minutes apart were felt over a broad area of eastern Tennessee and adjoining parts of Kentucky, North Carolina, and Virginia on September 7, 1956. At Knoxville, both shocks were felt by nearly all, many of whom were alarmed (VI). Windowpanes shattered, dishes broke, objects were shaken from shelves, pictures fell, and some plaster was knocked from walls. The total felt area covered approximately 21,500 square kilometers.

An earthquake sequence consisting of one foreshock, a magnitude 4.6 main shock, and more than 30 aftershocks occurred south of Knoxville during the latter part of 1973. The foreshock, magnitude 3.4, on October 30, was felt over an area of 2,100 square kilometers, with a maximum intensity of V. The main shock cause minor damage (VI) in several towns in eastern Tennessee, Georgia, Kentucky, and North Carolina. Minor cracks in walls at the University of Tennessee Hospital at Knoxville were reported. Minor damage to walls, windows, and chimneys occurred in the Maryville - Alcoa area. The shock disrupted relay contacts at the Alcoa switching station, causing a temporary loss of power. The total felt area, including parts of South Carolina, Virginia, and West Virginia, as well as the region mentioned above, covered about 65,000 square kilometers. A network of eight portable seismographs was installed in the main epicentral area. This network was operational from December 2 through December 12 and recorded 30 small magnitude aftershocks. Additional aftershocks were reported felt on December 13, 14, and 21.

California may be safer than Tennessee from earthquakes, California has them frequently which may relieve the stresses and prevent the big one, but Tennessee and Missouri, when they go they go big, very big because of the lack of periodic stress relief.

Most people do not realize that other portions of the USA besides California are subject to severe earthquakes.

[Topthis]

Hey Butch, you got any of this "great" news on other countries?? I would like to know that it is not just the U.S. that is going to sink into the Ocean, be covered in a giant cloud of dust, melted with oceans of lava, swallowed up by the Earth...etc. Maybe something about the Middle East being turned into a Sea of Glass first...

[butch50]

The middle east will sink into the region of Hades as it pumps out all of the oil beneath it .

Super Volcanoes are scattered out all around the globe.

When I was 8 years old we lived in Arizona, not far from Phoenix. I used to dig up fossilized sea shells all the time, the type that looks like the shell on the shell gas station logo. I would dig them up and then try to imagine that desert as the bottom of an ocean. I learned at an early age that the earth is not a static thing, that it changes and changes in extremely radical ways.

I don't know what the odds are of the next big catastrophe striking during my life time and affecting my life, and I don't really expect anything to happen to me - but do you think the people who recently were struck by that tsunami felt any different the day before it struck, than I feel today? In all reality my bug out bag is set up for a 3 day emergency because anything longer than that is going to be too much to be prepared for. 3 days will get me to a place in the country that has the potential for subsistence survival.

Can you begin to imagine what will happen in the cities if the food supplies were cut off for only a week? When/where people depend entirely upon supermarkets for their most basic survival material?

[News Shooter]

of most of the suggested items that the original poster intended. I'm ignoring all the survivalist/troll stuff. If the economy/government does collapse you're going to need a hell of a lot more than a duffle bag. I'm assuming the "survival" will be for just a few days, maybe in a snowstorm or something like that

Here's what I was able to pick up from the threads. I may have missed something. The first one on the list is my add:

An AM/FM radio that can be operated by a crank dynamo ($50 at Brookstone)
Flashlights (LED) extra batteries
Money in some form, preferably small bills
Small propane backpacking propane stove/propane
MRE's
Vacum sealer
Leatherman
Hunting knife/sharpener
Various thermal blankets
plastic garbage bads
zip lock bags
First aid kit
Bic Lighters/Zippo
Matches, waterproof and regular
binoculars
small tool kit
toothbrush
soap
sleeping bag
sewing kit
glow sticks
mirror
duct tape
fishing kit
shoes/socks
whistle
shop towels
compass
candles
water/water filter
flares
reflectors
safety vest
tp
rope
pistol/firearm/ammuition
whiskey

Now, let's get on track. How does this list look to everyone?

[joab]

Can you begin to imagine what will happen in the cities if the food supplies were cut off for only a week?

Food? you should have been here last year for the quadcanes.
People were lined up at the mobile aid stations like Russians in a toilet paper line for water.
In Florida where you can't go a mile without falling in a lake or dig more than 30 or 40 feet without hitting underground rivers.

If food ever got shut off they would just wring their hands and watch the squirrels and coons play in the backyard and wonder what to do

[joab]

Great, you're not fitting all that into a duffle bag, though. Carrying all that with you would be more of a hassle than it would ever help you. You would need 2 gigantic duffle bags to carry all of that.

I see your back to tell us what we're doing wrong but still will not address the questions asked of you.
And yes most of that would fit into a small Alice pack, excluding the items that are for BOB prep such as the vacuum sealer.
Besides that, it is a list to choose from not mandatory carry gear

[News Shooter]

This is a tough room

[joab]

News Shooter
You forgot shelter.
And yes ,Josh, that will fit in there too

News Shooter
Check your PM

[butch50]

Actually, except for the vacuum sealer (which I don't think he meant to be carried) the amount of items Newshooter is discussing is less than the gear that we carried every day in the infantry. We carried all of that, and some more, inside of and strapped on packs with a total weight of about 70 lbs.

[News Shooter]

I was just compiling all the suggestions made on this thread. I personally wouldn't use a vacumn sealer.
I agree that soldiers probably carry this and a lot more. Even in Boy Scouts I had most of this stuff.

[Dave R]

My church--the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons)--advises its members to have a "72-hour kit", which is essentially a Bug-Out Bag. So sure, I have one. My "bag" is actually 3 bug Rubbermaid tubs, since I have a wife and kids to provide for.

The lists here are all pretty good. Nothing to add to contents. Excpet maybe to recommend going camping once in a while to make sure all the stuff works. You don't want to find out it doesn't work when you really need it.

To those who think you are paranoid for having a BOB--California has earthquakes and wildfires. Places near rivers flood. The southeast has hurricanes. Any city could have riots, etc.

[joab]

Lets say there was a wildfire in CA, why would this require you to have a bag of such contents?

So are you saying that because a BOB would not perceivably help you in particular in a certain situation that we should not be prepared for other situations where it would definetly come in handy.
A BOB is not a majic talisman that will guarantee your safety it's simply something that might

And what about those questions asked of you?

[joab]

Unless you live in the woods or move slower than the fire, aka you're a moron,

Have you ever been in a forest fire?
How fast do you think they move and how much time do you really think you will have to evacuate. And where do you think you're gonna go.

No offense here but you sound like someone with very little real life experience and a whole lot of advice to give based on it

And how about those questions asked of you earlier?

[Bravo25]

What questions?

I'm still waiting for 1 scenario that is likely to happen in which all these supplies are going to come in handy. So far nobody has posted anything relevant to that. A forest fire? Give me a break.

Sometimes I wish we didn't have to cross the bridges. Then we could just avoid the trolls. I really hope that you never plan to have children.
My daughter also has a challenge question that requires a specific reply. But that only makes me paranoid right. Cause children don't get abducted in a Republic like ours. It just can't happen.

coleman27 I am glad you get so much amusement from showing your education level. You throw around words like "moron" to everyone, and you cannot offer one piece of insightful advice yourself. Let me clue you in to something. A forest fire burns faster, and longer than you can ever run! But I guess those fire shelters the parajumpers carry only make them paranoid huh?

Would you at least put forth some effort to contribute instead of only insult.
Thank you
Have a good day then
Bye-bye now
Wipe, flush, and wash will ya?

[Duxman]

Guys - thanks for this interesting start - it will certainly help me put together my BOB. Lots of good suggestions and info here.

You never know when the next terrorist attack / natural disaster / other world shattering event might occur.

Like Robert Redford said in Spy Game: When did Noah build the Ark Gladys? Before the storm. Before the storm.

[butch50]

Coleman, you have crossed the line with your insulting behavior. I am putting you on my ignore list, and I suggest that everyone else do the same.

That makes you the only one on my ignore list.