Freud and Firearms?

[VaughnT]

I've often seen Siggie Freud quoted as saying something to the affect that the fear of firearms was a sign of "sexual immaturity", but I can't figure out what he means from that single, out-of-context quote. Can anyone elaborate?

I understand that fearing a tool, which a firearm is, would indicate a general lack of maturity because it's not logical to fear an inanimate object. Nobody fears a hammer or a nail, do they?

But, why does he bring sex into the equation? Am I misinterpreting his use of the word "sexual"?

Anyhow, it's been bugging me for some time. If anyone could offer some insight (is there a doctor in the house?), I would be most appreciative.

[raz-0]

freud decided pretty much everything was about sex. But then again I believe he had a nasty coke habit too, so you might want to take some of his ideas with a grain of salt.

As far as sexual maturity, he basically proposed humans as sexual beings from birth, and that along with the body, ones sexuality matures as well. Except many people get stuck at a developmental stage of sexuality rather than

Go to

http://oldsci.eiu.edu/psychology/Spencer/Freud.html

and search for psychosexual.

As a side note, almost all of his theories are regarded as wrong these days.

[m16a2223]

VaughnT, Nobody understands what Freud was saying......Freud didnt even understand.

[Dusty Miller]

There's a very good reason why the words "Freud" and "fraud" look so much alike!!

[fyrestarter]

Well, a few of us actually do understand Freud.

In General Introduction to Psychoanalysis , Freud wrote, "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"

Freud is specifically making reference to the male phallus with his use of the word "weapon", as his Tenth Lecture on the subject of dreams labels swords, sabers, pistols and rifles as symbols of the male gentalia. A fear of a weapon, in a dream, mind you, simply suggests a neurosis towards the male phallus. For instance, if a female were to have a dream in which a man with a gun startled her, it would point towards an innate fear of sex, and perhaps lead to the discovery of said fear.

The quote has nothing to do with firearms. It is merely a comment on dreams and symbolism.

[VaughnT]

Fyrestarter, thanks for shedding some light on that. All this time, I was thinking that he was speaking literally and never considered that it might be a metaphor. Kinda sucks that he didn't find something actually wrong with people that actually fear guns, in and of themselves.

Did Jung cover this territory any?

While I agree with Freud that humans do things for reasons of procreation (not plain sexual pleasure), I think Freud missed a big bit by not including the other two factors in human behavior, namely Feeding and Fighting.

FYI, Desmond Morris, I believe, postulated that the Rule of the Three "F's" is what motivated all human behavior just like it does in other mammals. The three are intertwined and often hard to separate or identify, but they are there.

Thanks again.

[fyrestarter]

Kinda sucks that he didn't find something actually wrong with people that actually fear guns, in and of themselves

Well, Vaughn, I suppose in actuality he did. A dream is just a symbolic manifestation of a neurosis, which in turn is a fear based on a traumatic incident, or perceived incident.

A conscious fear of a gun represents a subconcious fear of that which a gun symbolizes, which is the male phallus. Any person who fears a gun in real life makes a unconscious reference to their subconscious fear of, well, penis.

According to Freud, therefore, a man who fears a gun, subconsciously questions his own sexuality, fearing he might be a homosexual. A woman who fears a gun is fearing penetration, or rape. In either case, the neurosis sometimes manifests itself as a phobia -- an irrational fear of the object symbolizing the fear and not the fear itself. Other times, neuroses cause people to compensate by battling for control over the object. For instance, pyromaniacs become obsessed with firefighters, simply because they live in awe of those who can control the object they fear.

A strictly Freudian analysis of an anti-gun advocate, therefore, is that, if male, he wishes to get rid of guns simply because he fears that he is a homosexual; if female, it is because she lives in terror of being controlled by a man. Pretty much explains Rosie O'Donnell, doesn't it?

[mec]

Playboy used freudian symbolism to make fun of shooters saying that the gun made up for their little, short, impotent wee-wees. They hadn't read the opening chapters of " Introduction to P..A..." ( or much of anything else for that matter.) Freud was a member of the Austrian Militia/Army and guns were a commonplace for him. He was also a resounding quackeroo although it took the smart set about a century to figure that out.

Freud had a developmental scheduel he called "Polymorphous Perversity" that other psychoanalist liked to call the "Psycho-sexual stages of development." The early primary femal psychoanalist, Karen Hornay thought they were a bunch of crap-she resented the 'Penis Envy' thing and came up with something not so sexual- "Psycho Social Stages of Development"

G.C. Jung started his own school of psychology and though everybody had inborn memories he called " Archetypes." He was heavy into sexual symbolism too and came up with a nasty called the "Vagina Dentata"- the inborn fear that a female organ will grow teeth and bite off your privy member. Thus, irrational fear of Lorena Bobbett could be a sign of sexual immaturity.

The psychoanalytical school of quackery has largely been replaced by newer and equally phantasmagoric crocks of snake oil.

[JackVigdor]

Fyrestarter, you wrote that 'In General Introduction to Psychoanalysis , Freud wrote, "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity"'

I actually just downloaded a PD version of that book and no where in it does Freud say that. Freud does imply that a fear off weapons in dreams is a sign of a fear of adult sexuality.

The idiot who was trying to make a joke about how Freud and fraud sound alike and that therefore must mean something, is an idiot. Freud is not all that hard to understand. Many people have read him and understand him. I am a believer in private gun ownership, so my criticism here is not against owning guns, but is a criticism of some of the stupid people who have posted in this thread. I do believe you must have good impulse control and be responsible to own a gun. Too bad some of you own weapons.

By the way, MEC, analytic theory is far from quackery. There is plenty of current research which validates much of Freud's work.

Mec, you are like someone who criticizes a gun he has never used.

[KMAX]

Lighten up, Jack. No need to get nasty.

[Sparks1957]

Is Jack aware that he's responding to the post that is almost 9 years old?

[geetarman]

According to some. . .guns are phallic symbols. For that matter so are guitars.

I play bass also

[KMAX]

Don't start in on trombones.

[12GaugeShuggoth]

The psychoanalytical school of quackery has largely been replaced by newer and equally phantasmagoric crocks of snake oil.

.......freaking awesome. Also, zombie thread

[Brian Pfleuger]

I see nothing here worthy of resurrecting an 8 year old thread.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Sorry - the Freud path is not one we will go down. Psychoanalysis and weapons - bah. The quote may not be real also.

Closed for necromancy.