Help IDing my Mosin Nagant Sniper

pelaeon · December 13, 2009, 04:41 PM

Hi all,

I recently purchased a 1943 Izhevsk Mosin Nagant Sniper with PU Scope. I researched them a bit online and to the best of my recently acquired knowledge appears to be legitimate with a few exceptions.

I am pretty confident the scope is one of the Ukrainian after-market scopes. The soviet symbol, half moon and serial number look precisely milled, not stamped. The screws are flat headed, not rounded. The scope mount is made of steel and is either original or a spot-on reproduction. It looks nearly new. I noticed there is no grinding on the mount feet.

All numbers are matching and appear original. All pieces have the Izhevsk markings on them.

My biggest concern that i can't seem to resolve is the barrel. From the information i've gathered online, all post 1942 Iz Sniper rifles had scope numbers stamped on the woodline to the left of the receiver. Mine does not. I am hoping there were exceptions to this rule. The bolt appears original, looks worn with the rest of the gun, and the bent bolt is not sharp like all the aftermarket ones. It is stamped matching the barrel.

The stock has a uniform finish including around the cut-away for the scope mount. ie. the mount doesn't look like it was a recent hacksaw addition.

In Summary:

Points against Authentic Sniper:
- No Scope Number Stamped on Receiver
- Scope and possibly mount is not original

Points for Sniper
- Cosmoline on screw and lockscrews that hold scope mount to gun
- Bolt appears to be authentic drop-handle sniper bolt.
- Barrel number matches sniper bolt number
- Finish around scope mount cut-out on stock matches rest of stock. (doesn't look brushed on years afterwards)

James K · December 13, 2009, 05:33 PM

I am not an expert on those scopes, but the M91/30 on the rifle is clearly electric pencilled and is not original. The scope looks new and the numbers appear to be pantographed, a marking method not commonly used in wartime production.

Further, why would the Russians put that marking on either the rifle or the scope; the scope could have been used on any rifle (with the proper mounts) and they knew very well what the rifle was.

I think the scope and probably the mounts are post-war, "repros" if you will. They may work very well, but I would be against them being of WWII vintage.

I suspect the bolt also is new made or newly altered, and was numbered and installed at the same time as the mounts and scope. Note that the number fonts do not match.

Jim

tater134 · December 13, 2009, 08:58 PM

Judging by the bolt numbering and the lack of a scope number on the barrel this looks to be a repro.

pelaeon · December 14, 2009, 01:24 AM

I agree the scope and probably mount are post-war additions.

It looks like the bottom receiver and butt-plate have the same font at the bolt. They also appear to have been done by the same guy who can't manage to equally space his stamps.

Excuse the blurry butt photo. All of these have been taken from my cellphone camera.

There is a thin layer of black paint on the butt-plate. I found this same paint on the inside of the receiver near/over the scope mount bolts. It flaked off easily from the receiver during cleaning.

Is the lack of a scope number on the receiver pretty much a nail in the coffin?

I suppose if it is a pieced-together model i can be happy it appears to have been done 'well'

tater134 · December 14, 2009, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Is the lack of a scope number on the receiver pretty much a nail in the coffin?

Pretty much.Even if it was an ex-sniper that had a scope remounted on it there would be a lined out scope number on the barrel or a flat spot where the number was ground off.

30cal_Fun · January 22, 2010, 09:42 AM

Hi,

Its definitely a reproduction. all the comments above are dead on. I had some doubt about mine too, but a post here quickly made mince meat of that

Here's mine, it looks almost exactly the same:
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...osin+nagant+pu

Still, you have a nice rifle there! congratulations on the purchase, let us know how she shoots.

Take care,

December 13, 2009, 04:41 PM	#1
pelaeon Junior Member Join Date: December 13, 2009 Posts: 10	Help IDing my Mosin Nagant Sniper Hi all, I recently purchased a 1943 Izhevsk Mosin Nagant Sniper with PU Scope. I researched them a bit online and to the best of my recently acquired knowledge appears to be legitimate with a few exceptions. I am pretty confident the scope is one of the Ukrainian after-market scopes. The soviet symbol, half moon and serial number look precisely milled, not stamped. The screws are flat headed, not rounded. The scope mount is made of steel and is either original or a spot-on reproduction. It looks nearly new. I noticed there is no grinding on the mount feet. All numbers are matching and appear original. All pieces have the Izhevsk markings on them. My biggest concern that i can't seem to resolve is the barrel. From the information i've gathered online, all post 1942 Iz Sniper rifles had scope numbers stamped on the woodline to the left of the receiver. Mine does not. I am hoping there were exceptions to this rule. The bolt appears original, looks worn with the rest of the gun, and the bent bolt is not sharp like all the aftermarket ones. It is stamped matching the barrel. The stock has a uniform finish including around the cut-away for the scope mount. ie. the mount doesn't look like it was a recent hacksaw addition. In Summary: Points against Authentic Sniper: - No Scope Number Stamped on Receiver - Scope and possibly mount is not original Points for Sniper - Cosmoline on screw and lockscrews that hold scope mount to gun - Bolt appears to be authentic drop-handle sniper bolt. - Barrel number matches sniper bolt number - Finish around scope mount cut-out on stock matches rest of stock. (doesn't look brushed on years afterwards)

January 22, 2010, 09:42 AM	#6
30cal_Fun Senior Member Join Date: January 11, 2010 Posts: 109	Hi, Its definitely a reproduction. all the comments above are dead on. I had some doubt about mine too, but a post here quickly made mince meat of that Here's mine, it looks almost exactly the same: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...osin+nagant+pu Still, you have a nice rifle there! congratulations on the purchase, let us know how she shoots. Take care, __________________ Gun control: The theory that people who are willing to ignore laws against rape, torture, kidnapping, theft, and murder will obey a law which prohibits them from owning a firearm.

December 13, 2009, 05:33 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I am not an expert on those scopes, but the M91/30 on the rifle is clearly electric pencilled and is not original. The scope looks new and the numbers appear to be pantographed, a marking method not commonly used in wartime production. Further, why would the Russians put that marking on either the rifle or the scope; the scope could have been used on any rifle (with the proper mounts) and they knew very well what the rifle was. I think the scope and probably the mounts are post-war, "repros" if you will. They may work very well, but I would be against them being of WWII vintage. I suspect the bolt also is new made or newly altered, and was numbered and installed at the same time as the mounts and scope. Note that the number fonts do not match. Jim

December 13, 2009, 08:58 PM	#3
tater134 Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2009 Location: NE,PA Posts: 390	Judging by the bolt numbering and the lack of a scope number on the barrel this looks to be a repro.

December 14, 2009, 01:24 AM	#4
pelaeon Junior Member Join Date: December 13, 2009 Posts: 10	I agree the scope and probably mount are post-war additions. It looks like the bottom receiver and butt-plate have the same font at the bolt. They also appear to have been done by the same guy who can't manage to equally space his stamps. Excuse the blurry butt photo. All of these have been taken from my cellphone camera. There is a thin layer of black paint on the butt-plate. I found this same paint on the inside of the receiver near/over the scope mount bolts. It flaked off easily from the receiver during cleaning. Is the lack of a scope number on the receiver pretty much a nail in the coffin? I suppose if it is a pieced-together model i can be happy it appears to have been done 'well'