Mosin Nagant questions

Kyle7 · June 21, 2012, 10:33 PM

Hello, I have been the proud owner of a Russian Mosin Nagant for a little more than a year now, and I have a few questions regarding cleaning. I heard that the primers of the 7.62x54R had some sort of corrosive salt in them, and that the best way to clean the barrel was simply boil water, pour it down the barrel and swab until the patches come out clean. This coincides with the second question, I was cleaning it today, and I noticed that the laminated stock was becoming cloudy in areas water had touched, so I am curious if there is another way to clean the barrel, and if I should sand the stock with very fine paper to get the laminate finish off, or if I should take another approach to stripping and refinishing. Thank you!

tahunua001 · June 21, 2012, 11:12 PM

I usually take the stock off and throw all the metal parts in the bath tub and soak them in the hottest water I can get. that way I never have to worry about messing up the wood. is it an aftermarket stock or factory? if it's factory then it shouldn't be laminated, it should be stuffed full of cosmoline. if it's aftermarket then I have no idea how to deal with peeling laminate.

jsmaye · June 22, 2012, 08:14 AM

Boiling hot water is not necessary, and will blemish or even remove the shellac with which these rifles are finished. Regular water is fine.

Quote:

...if it's factory then it shouldn't be laminated...

There were indeed factory-laminated stocks. However, I don't think the boiling water is de-laminating the wood; rather, it's just clouding the finish.

troopcom · June 22, 2012, 10:27 AM

I always thought you had to use boiling hot water and that Amonia was not necessary

At any rate I've used boiling hot water on a couple of mausers with good results. I saw on Youtube where Sturmgewher used a spray bottle of water on a semi auto ak and he said that was sufficient as long as you get the water where the corrosive particles have touched. I really like this guys videos, very informative!

Here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcFKCTfKENc

doofus47 · June 22, 2012, 01:29 PM

I filled an old contact lens saline bottle with 1/2 ammonia and 1/2 water. After shooting, while the barrel was still hot, I would put a patch wet (but not sopping, dripping wet) of this solution down the barrel and rub off the bolt/chamber. I then ran a dry patch to pick up the water/salts.
Any residual water dried fast b/c of the barrel heat. I then went home and and cleaned as I would regularly using Hoppe's 9. I never had a problem with rust or corrosion or de-laminated stocks.

About 3 mins extra time all told.

boostedtt91 · June 22, 2012, 06:03 PM

i just use cheap glass cleaner that has ammonia in it. Its the best way to clean it out. Just spray it on your patches and saturate the bore with it and then clean like you would any other time

Scimmia · June 22, 2012, 06:23 PM

Quote:

i just use cheap glass cleaner that has ammonia in it. Its the best way to clean it out.

Pure water is better at dissolving salt than ammonia. It's also cheaper than glass cleaner. The ammonia can help with any copper fouling, but it would take longer than people let it work for normal cleaning.

MikeG · June 22, 2012, 07:42 PM

Quote:

if it's factory then it shouldn't be laminated

The Soviet Union started making laminated stocks towards the end of WWII. Usually found on carbines, some were made for M91/30s. I've got one.

As to the original post, take the action out of the stock or use windex or other milder methods.

the rifleer · June 24, 2012, 12:25 AM

you don't even have to boil the water, just water running down the barrel and all over the bolt parts (take the bolt apart, its fairly easy), then clean like you would any other rifle with oil and patches.

Josh Smith · June 25, 2012, 01:08 AM

Hello,

The primers contain potassium chlorate. This deflagrates into potassium chloride, a salt. Being a salt, it is hygroscopic (attracts moisture).

What will remove table salt from a surface? Pure water, right?

Reckon Hoppes might remove it too?

Here's the thing: Lots of folks swear by soap and water. Problem being, soap is hygroscopic as well and a bunch of Dawn down the tube will rust it out surely as any salt.

When I shot corrosively-primed ammo, before I began to handload for this cartridge, I would make up some dishwater and dip ONE patch in it. I'd follow that by four or five tepid-water-soaked patches to make sure the soap was clear.

I'd then clean as normal.

I shoot out back. If you have to go to a range, just do this... and it's the same as I'd do now: Run a patch full of Hoppes or CLP or whatever down the barrel and let it soak on the drive home. The petroleum-based products won't let the metal oxidize even if it weren't cleaning it out!

Think about this: I shoot black powder. If I recall correctly, the residue is actually slightly corrosive, bonding with O2 and forming a weak acidic solution.

The best cleaning for those is just tepid, soapy water pumped through the barrel. Let dry and run some organic grease down the tube. (I use beeswax.)

A lot of folks get so uptight about a few salts that they don't stop to think about how this was handled back in the days of black powder and corrosive primers.

Usually they were just washed out in a convenient creek.

Regards,

the rifleer · June 25, 2012, 01:27 AM

I just run water from a hose down the barrel for about a minute and all over the bolt (taken apart), then clean and oil like any other rifle. Works great.

Hardcase · June 25, 2012, 03:50 PM

I clean mine the same way that I clean my black powder rifles: water-soaked patches. I run a few through the barrel, then a couple of dry patches. I'll wet a rag and scrub a bit around inside the action, then dry it off and oil like normal.

No rust, no problems.

DE Shooter · June 25, 2012, 09:00 PM

I usually plug the bore with a pipette bulb, pull the bolt, place barrel down in a plastic container, then fill the barrel to the chamber with hot tap water. Use a squirt bottle like for adding water to a battery. While the barrel is soaking, I run hot tap water over the bolt components and wipe them dry. Go back, drain the barrel, run a couple patches thru to dry, then do standard cleaning with Hoppes #9. I seldom get any water on the wood and if I do, I just wipe it off. All I shoot is corrosive spam can ammo...no rust problems.

Chuckusaret · June 25, 2012, 10:06 PM

I have a 6" PVC pipe about 40" long capped on one end that I fill with water and soak just the gun barrel. Then clean as normal.

Scimmia · June 25, 2012, 10:54 PM

Quote:

I clean mine the same way that I clean my black powder rifles: water-soaked patches. I run a few through the barrel, then a couple of dry patches. I'll wet a rag and scrub a bit around inside the action, then dry it off and oil like normal.

No rust, no problems.

I do the same thing. It's amazing to see the extremes some people go through because of a minute amount of salt.

Heavy Metal 1 · July 5, 2012, 10:44 AM

Also wipe off the bolt face w/ one damp patch, dry then oil. Some of the extreme measure offered above have the likelihood of causing a lot more wear & tear than is necessary.

m&p45acp10+1 · July 5, 2012, 04:53 PM

I just use a water bottle with the squirt cap. Pull the bolt. Point the barrel at the ground. Turn the water bottle, insert it into the breach area. Squirt some water in. Wait a couple of seconds and repeat. Then I run a water soaked patch down the barrel. Then give it a few minutes to dry out some. Run dry patches till they come out dry. Follow with a lightly oiled patch. Then finish with running a dry patch to remove the excess oil. Wipe the bolt with some oil, and remove the excess. Reassemble then call it done.

Total time is about 10 minutes. If I am brushing to remove copper fouling then add another 15 to 30 minutes.

Cheapshooter · July 5, 2012, 11:49 PM

All of my milsurps are cleaned well with Hoppe's N0. 9 solvent. Well soaked patches through the bore, then a bore brush dipped in Hoppe's. Beushes dipped in the solvent to clean the bolt, and actions. I let the Hoppe's soak a bit in the bore, then run dry patches through them. Last I coat everything with a light coat of Remoil. I have shot all kinds of surplus ammo for years, and have never had a rust problem.

Don P · July 6, 2012, 07:16 AM

Quote:

All of my milsurps are cleaned well with Hoppe's N0. 9 solvent. Well soaked patches through the bore, then a bore brush dipped in Hoppe's. Beushes dipped in the solvent to clean the bolt, and actions. I let the Hoppe's soak a bit in the bore, then run dry patches through them. Last I coat everything with a light coat of Remoil. I have shot all kinds of surplus ammo for years, and have never had a rust problem.

I concur 110%. It's all I do. Trying to convince the masses that this will work will not happen

. Remember, Windex is the cure all in stopping corrosion from primers

Cheapshooter · July 6, 2012, 12:09 PM

Actually, I used to carry a bottle of ammonia and water in my range bag to clean the bore, and wipe down the actions of my milsurps right after shooting corrosive ammo. I forgot one day that I didn't have it in the bag, and without immediate cleaning, by the time I got home all my guns had turned into a pile of rust like in an old junk yard.....NOT! That's when I started just giving them a good cleaning when I got home. In fact, on some rare occasions I couldn't get to them ASAP for a thorough cleaning so I just ran some patches well soaked in Hoppe's through the bore, and wiped down the bolt, and frame. When I did get to do the complete cleaning the next day everything was fine. No rust anywhere!

biganimal · July 26, 2012, 09:46 PM

I eliminated the problem by reloading everything I shoot in my milsurps

steidle2131 · July 26, 2012, 11:04 PM

I just clean mine with Hoppes #9 when I get home. Seems to work fine. I started off using windex, but I guess I got lazy and stopped. No problems yet. But then again I've only had mine a year. I think the most important thing is if you shoot corrosive ammo, don't wait a while to clean it. Do it that day. Just my opinion.

emcon5 · July 26, 2012, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Reckon Hoppes might remove it too?

One of the previous times this came up, a guy on Calguns ended up calling Hoppes to get the straight answer. Which was: "No"

The old formula worked fine, the current formula, not so much.

Hoppes No9 plus is formulated for Black powder, and should work fine on corrosive primers. http://www.hoppes.com/products/no9_plus.html

That being said, unless you shoot black powder, buying a special solvent just to do the same job as water you get from the tap for free, seems silly.

troopcom · July 27, 2012, 11:45 PM

I want to try to disolve salt in a small amount of Hoppes #9. If that works then I don't see why that's not enough to clean with after shooting corrosive ammo.
I can't remember where I heard it, but somebody said back during the war they used to pee down the barrel before cleaning it. Has anyone else ever heard of that?

emcon5 · July 29, 2012, 10:55 AM

Quote:

I want to try to disolve salt in a small amount of Hoppes #9. If that works then I don't see why that's not enough to clean with after shooting corrosive ammo.

So the manufacturer stating that it does not remove corrosive salts is not enough for you?

The old SurplusRifle site had an excellent test of a bunch of different cleaners on how they removed salts. Thanks the the wayback machine, the PDFs of the tests are still available. Hoppes #9 is at the bottom of file 2. Here is a preview: "Probably one of the worst test strips seen with very heavy rust formation on the treatment areas."

http://web.archive.org/web/200611130...ittlesalt1.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/200611131...ittlesalt2.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/200611131...ittlesalt3.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/200611131...ittlesalt4.pdf

http://web.archive.org/web/200611131...ittlesalt5.pdf

But hey, it is your rifle, if you want to use Hoppes #9, knock yourself out.

June 21, 2012, 10:33 PM	#1
Kyle7 Junior Member Join Date: June 21, 2012 Location: South Dakota Posts: 1	Mosin Nagant questions Hello, I have been the proud owner of a Russian Mosin Nagant for a little more than a year now, and I have a few questions regarding cleaning. I heard that the primers of the 7.62x54R had some sort of corrosive salt in them, and that the best way to clean the barrel was simply boil water, pour it down the barrel and swab until the patches come out clean. This coincides with the second question, I was cleaning it today, and I noticed that the laminated stock was becoming cloudy in areas water had touched, so I am curious if there is another way to clean the barrel, and if I should sand the stock with very fine paper to get the laminate finish off, or if I should take another approach to stripping and refinishing. Thank you!

June 21, 2012, 11:12 PM	#2
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	I usually take the stock off and throw all the metal parts in the bath tub and soak them in the hottest water I can get. that way I never have to worry about messing up the wood. is it an aftermarket stock or factory? if it's factory then it shouldn't be laminated, it should be stuffed full of cosmoline. if it's aftermarket then I have no idea how to deal with peeling laminate. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

June 22, 2012, 01:29 PM	#5
doofus47 Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2010 Location: live in a in a house when i'm not in a tent Posts: 2,483	My suggestion from experience. I filled an old contact lens saline bottle with 1/2 ammonia and 1/2 water. After shooting, while the barrel was still hot, I would put a patch wet (but not sopping, dripping wet) of this solution down the barrel and rub off the bolt/chamber. I then ran a dry patch to pick up the water/salts. Any residual water dried fast b/c of the barrel heat. I then went home and and cleaned as I would regularly using Hoppe's 9. I never had a problem with rust or corrosion or de-laminated stocks. About 3 mins extra time all told.

June 25, 2012, 01:27 AM	#11
the rifleer Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2008 Location: Sunny California Posts: 1,281	I just run water from a hose down the barrel for about a minute and all over the bolt (taken apart), then clean and oil like any other rifle. Works great. __________________ There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people.

June 25, 2012, 03:50 PM	#12
Hardcase Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Location: Sunny Southern Idaho Posts: 1,909	I clean mine the same way that I clean my black powder rifles: water-soaked patches. I run a few through the barrel, then a couple of dry patches. I'll wet a rag and scrub a bit around inside the action, then dry it off and oil like normal. No rust, no problems. __________________ Well we don't rent pigs and I figure it's better to say it right out front because a man that does like to rent pigs is... he's hard to stop - Gus McCrae

June 22, 2012, 10:27 AM	#4
troopcom Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2011 Posts: 230	I always thought you had to use boiling hot water and that Amonia was not necessary At any rate I've used boiling hot water on a couple of mausers with good results. I saw on Youtube where Sturmgewher used a spray bottle of water on a semi auto ak and he said that was sufficient as long as you get the water where the corrosive particles have touched. I really like this guys videos, very informative! Here is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcFKCTfKENc

June 22, 2012, 06:03 PM	#6
boostedtt91 Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2011 Location: Danville, Pa Posts: 520	i just use cheap glass cleaner that has ammonia in it. Its the best way to clean it out. Just spray it on your patches and saturate the bore with it and then clean like you would any other time

June 24, 2012, 12:25 AM	#9
the rifleer Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2008 Location: Sunny California Posts: 1,281	you don't even have to boil the water, just water running down the barrel and all over the bolt parts (take the bolt apart, its fairly easy), then clean like you would any other rifle with oil and patches. __________________ There is no such thing as a stupid question, only stupid people.

June 25, 2012, 01:08 AM	#10
Josh Smith member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wabash IN Posts: 740	Hello, The primers contain potassium chlorate. This deflagrates into potassium chloride, a salt. Being a salt, it is hygroscopic (attracts moisture). What will remove table salt from a surface? Pure water, right? Reckon Hoppes might remove it too? Here's the thing: Lots of folks swear by soap and water. Problem being, soap is hygroscopic as well and a bunch of Dawn down the tube will rust it out surely as any salt. When I shot corrosively-primed ammo, before I began to handload for this cartridge, I would make up some dishwater and dip ONE patch in it. I'd follow that by four or five tepid-water-soaked patches to make sure the soap was clear. I'd then clean as normal. I shoot out back. If you have to go to a range, just do this... and it's the same as I'd do now: Run a patch full of Hoppes or CLP or whatever down the barrel and let it soak on the drive home. The petroleum-based products won't let the metal oxidize even if it weren't cleaning it out! Think about this: I shoot black powder. If I recall correctly, the residue is actually slightly corrosive, bonding with O2 and forming a weak acidic solution. The best cleaning for those is just tepid, soapy water pumped through the barrel. Let dry and run some organic grease down the tube. (I use beeswax.) A lot of folks get so uptight about a few salts that they don't stop to think about how this was handled back in the days of black powder and corrosive primers. Usually they were just washed out in a convenient creek. Regards,

June 25, 2012, 09:00 PM	#13
DE Shooter Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Posts: 215	I usually plug the bore with a pipette bulb, pull the bolt, place barrel down in a plastic container, then fill the barrel to the chamber with hot tap water. Use a squirt bottle like for adding water to a battery. While the barrel is soaking, I run hot tap water over the bolt components and wipe them dry. Go back, drain the barrel, run a couple patches thru to dry, then do standard cleaning with Hoppes #9. I seldom get any water on the wood and if I do, I just wipe it off. All I shoot is corrosive spam can ammo...no rust problems.

June 25, 2012, 10:06 PM	#14
Chuckusaret Junior member Join Date: December 5, 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 708	I have a 6" PVC pipe about 40" long capped on one end that I fill with water and soak just the gun barrel. Then clean as normal.

July 5, 2012, 10:44 AM	#16
Heavy Metal 1 Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2012 Posts: 247	^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Also wipe off the bolt face w/ one damp patch, dry then oil. Some of the extreme measure offered above have the likelihood of causing a lot more wear & tear than is necessary.

July 5, 2012, 04:53 PM	#17
m&p45acp10+1 Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2009 Location: Central Texas Posts: 3,930	I just use a water bottle with the squirt cap. Pull the bolt. Point the barrel at the ground. Turn the water bottle, insert it into the breach area. Squirt some water in. Wait a couple of seconds and repeat. Then I run a water soaked patch down the barrel. Then give it a few minutes to dry out some. Run dry patches till they come out dry. Follow with a lightly oiled patch. Then finish with running a dry patch to remove the excess oil. Wipe the bolt with some oil, and remove the excess. Reassemble then call it done. Total time is about 10 minutes. If I am brushing to remove copper fouling then add another 15 to 30 minutes. __________________ No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.

July 5, 2012, 11:49 PM	#18
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	All of my milsurps are cleaned well with Hoppe's N0. 9 solvent. Well soaked patches through the bore, then a bore brush dipped in Hoppe's. Beushes dipped in the solvent to clean the bolt, and actions. I let the Hoppe's soak a bit in the bore, then run dry patches through them. Last I coat everything with a light coat of Remoil. I have shot all kinds of surplus ammo for years, and have never had a rust problem. __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

July 6, 2012, 12:09 PM	#20
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	Actually, I used to carry a bottle of ammonia and water in my range bag to clean the bore, and wipe down the actions of my milsurps right after shooting corrosive ammo. I forgot one day that I didn't have it in the bag, and without immediate cleaning, by the time I got home all my guns had turned into a pile of rust like in an old junk yard.....NOT! That's when I started just giving them a good cleaning when I got home. In fact, on some rare occasions I couldn't get to them ASAP for a thorough cleaning so I just ran some patches well soaked in Hoppe's through the bore, and wiped down the bolt, and frame. When I did get to do the complete cleaning the next day everything was fine. No rust anywhere! __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

July 26, 2012, 09:46 PM	#21
biganimal Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2001 Location: south carolina Posts: 435	I eliminated the problem by reloading everything I shoot in my milsurps __________________ Other than That, Mrs Lincoln, How was the play?

July 26, 2012, 11:04 PM	#22
steidle2131 Member Join Date: July 25, 2012 Location: North Carolina Posts: 19	I just clean mine with Hoppes #9 when I get home. Seems to work fine. I started off using windex, but I guess I got lazy and stopped. No problems yet. But then again I've only had mine a year. I think the most important thing is if you shoot corrosive ammo, don't wait a while to clean it. Do it that day. Just my opinion.

July 27, 2012, 11:45 PM	#24
troopcom Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 2011 Posts: 230	I want to try to disolve salt in a small amount of Hoppes #9. If that works then I don't see why that's not enough to clean with after shooting corrosive ammo. I can't remember where I heard it, but somebody said back during the war they used to pee down the barrel before cleaning it. Has anyone else ever heard of that?