44/45 Magnum VS. 45-70 Do_All-Levergun

[tahunua001]

I am faced with the limitations of the State of Indiana as to what calibers/rounds can be used for hunting .

that sounds outrageous, why would you limit the amount of power you can hunt with while many other states are putting minimums on it?

are you sure that those aren't just for pistols? in which case a lever action would make the 357, 44 mag, 45 LC, and 45/70(especially since it was never a pistol cal to begin with). legal to hunt with.

[wilkup]

Tell me more about this round...? I realize this was considered state-of-the-art at the turn of the century and I'm sure it killed every animal in North America the year it was released, but I don't know much about it. There is a lot of history behind this caliber, which has me at least a little curious after so many recommendations now.
What would be the advantages vs disadvantages compared to the other calibers I listed and the 35 Remington and 444 Marlin?

[2500ak]

Today I undertook the frustrating task of pulling my Rossi M92 apart for cleaning.

While I had it apart I swaped in one of these:

http://store.stevesgunz.com/index.ph...&products_id=1

At the same time I stoned all of the burrs off the ejector itself, and stoned all the burrs off the bottom of the hammer where it contacts the trigger. Also shaved a little off the sides of the hammer because I noticed it contacted the bolt upon release.

I highly recommend this to anyone who has one of these rifles. The ejector spring especially. The M92 action is slick until it has to eject the shell upon opening the bolt, and then in slick until it has to squeeze the ejector back into the bolt when the lugs slide into position.

It's that spring that makes the first and last part of the racking so jerky and tight. Swapping it out makes the Rossi action about as smooth as the marlin is factory. Also stops it from launching the spent casings into orbit. Snap caps go a little less than a foot up, then land at my feet.

[B.L.E.]

Tell me more about this round...? I realize this was considered state-of-the-art at the turn of the century and I'm sure it killed every animal in North America the year it was released, but I don't know much about it. There is a lot of history behind this caliber, which has me at least a little curious after so many recommendations now.
What would be the advantages vs disadvantages compared to the other calibers I listed and the 35 Remington and 444 Marlin?

It's most likely the most underestimated round in America. The .35 Remington is a bigger .30-30.
You can get the ammo for a .30-30 at just about any store that sells ammo and the ammo is not super expensive.

A lot of seasoned hunters stick with the .30-30 for the same reason a lot of experienced motorcycle riders choose a 250cc motorcycle for off road riding, it's "enough already".

[tahunua001]

It's most likely the most underestimated round in America. The .35 Remington is a bigger .30-30.
You can get the ammo for a .30-30 at just about any store that sells ammo and the ammo is not super expensive.

A lot of seasoned hunters stick with the .30-30 for the same reason a lot of experienced motorcycle riders choose a 250cc motorcycle for off road riding, it's "enough already".

I must say that I have to agree with that statement. it is very underrated and has been ever since the nonsense squad started hailing the 300 winchester magnum as "the greatest deer round ever invented". it has it's limitations just like any other round but is still capable of hunting accuracy out past 200 yards which is more than many shooters like to attempt in the first place. as a teenager my best friend and I hunted a lot and since he knew all the farmers in the area we usually had pretty good hookups for hunting. I was there when he got his first buck, a 200 pound, 3x3 whitetail at well over 200 yards. I would not recommend it for anything larger than a black bear but it definitely has a place as a deer caliber.

[wilkup]

I know my great grandfather hunted with a M94 30-30 and grandfather used it too but favored his M70 Featherweight in 30-06 for the added power.
I have been reading up on the 30-30 and from what I can find, the ammo is cheaper to buy and the performance on game up to Black Bear (even the big ones 600+lbs!) is great! The availability of 30-30 at just about any sporting goods store is also a HUGE advantage.
This thread has got me rethinking my choices and looking into so many other options! Too many choices! The only thing I'm still sure about is that I want a Marlin or Winchester 92 clone at this point! I love forums for the simple reason it's so easy to gather large amounts of knowledge =) Thanks for all the help and advice!

[Noreaster]

I guess it depends on where your hunting. In my neck of the woods anything over 100yds is really far, others consider 250-300yds normal. I wouldn't want to hunt long distance (say over 125yds,) with a 30/30. For black bear hunting your mostly over bait or maybe a treed bear by hounds, either shot is well under 50yds. Many people would shoot anything with a 300 win mag at 300 yds, including a black bear. The 150 grain 30/30 at 50 yards and it's about the same ft. lbs and velocity as the 300 mag at 300 yds.

[Big Shrek]

Yerp, I'll agree with the 6 above me

I had a Marlin 1895-SBL in .45/70, and it was FUN!!

But I found myself going to ye olde rifle...a 1953 Marlin 336-RC WaffleTop...
maybe because it reminds me of my grandpa...can't discount the memories...
and its just easy to shoot...kick's practically nothing with a good recoil pad on it...

So the .45/70 got sold off one day at the range when a guy with more money than sense offered me too much for it

But the old 336 will get passed down to my twins...as will a few more items

[batmann]

The .30-30 is my choice and I voted 'other'. Why? It has a better range than the .44M, is easier on the shoulder than a .45-70 plus ammo is cheaper.
My Winchester M94 is a great all a round rifle and has taken many a Deer and one Elk.
Range? No shot over 200 yards (one Deer) with Hornady Leverevolution and the Elk (small bull) was approx 75 and I had a clear broadside shot with 190 gr HC hand load.
The charts shown earlier are good---up to a point. The charts shown are both biased toward heavier bullets, but the .30-30 will do a pretty good job on most North American game, it just takes a little patience to get the right shot, but both the .44M and the .45-70 do too.

[2500ak]

The general sentiment seems to be for the 30-30, but my thoughts are that it's too much of a compromise for someone who plans to load their own rounds.

The 30-30 still has the ballistics of a brick compared to most modern hunting rounds like 30-06, or 7mm.

The 45-70 does too, but it can take down any game you'll find on this continent with relative ease.

The .44/.45/.454 M92's or 1894's all can be loaded to meet or -in the case of the .454- exceed the muzzle energy of the 30-30, and you've got a gun that makes a hole that lets in more daylight. Also, far more rounds in the tube, and if you ever decide you want to carry a companion revolver you're limited to a BFR for 45-70 and 30-30 (in which case you might as well get the 45-70).

[Kreyzhorse]

The 45-70 can get wild or mild and offers a wider range of offerings than your other options.

[B.L.E.]

The .30-30 is to deer hunting what Baby Bear's bed was to Goldilocks, just right.

[RevGeo]

In the poll I voted 'other' because to me a great all-around lever action would be a Savage 99 in .300 Sav, .308 Win or .358 Win. I wouldn't hesitate to hunt anything here in Idaho with any of those calibers.
I'm a fan of the 30-30 as well. Way underrated, as has been correctly pointed out in some of the above posts. The Savage 99 is, IMHO, one of the finest rifles ever made, anywhere, by anybody.

[mavracer]

Being able to have just one gun makes it all worthwhile though.

Surely you jest lol.

[Shotgun693]

I loved the .45/70 until my right shoulder was rebuilt. They took all the padding off . I could take the butt on bone with the .45/70 so tried the .38/55 and just love it. A 250 gr bullet at 1700+fps will kill anything in Texas I can afford to shoot.

[budd]

I hunt mainly in WVa. and Maryland, but I do hunt in Indiana on my Dad's farm on occasions. In Indiana, you can hunt with a carbine/rifle in 44 mag and 45 colt, but not in 45-70 Gvmt. But some of 45 colt hand loads can be almost as powerful as some low and medium rangs 45-70 loads, and still stay within factory safty limits of both the Marlin and Winchester and Rossi Carbines. You don't need 454 casouls in a carbine for bear or deer east of the BIG MUDDY. Even the 357 is good powerful short range deer and vermin gun especially in a 24 inch Levergun in any brand of carbine/rifle.

J Budd

[wilkup]

For black bear hunting your mostly over bait or maybe a treed bear by hounds, either shot is well under 50yds.

I live in Washington State and as far as I know, it's illegal to hunt over bait or with hounds. I still wouldn't plan on taking more than a 100 yard shot at one though.

[wilkup]

Alright, I know I said I wasn't interested in anything but Marlins and the Rossi 92, but I was at the store this afternoon and couldn't help but walk over to the gun counter and ask to check the different guns they had.

Well, I looked at a Marlin GBL 45-70, Rossi Rio Grande 30-30 and Rossi M92 357.
I was a little disappointed and shocked to see how poor the fit/finish on the Marlin was and listen to the shop guy talk it up. The stock was about 1/8-1/4'' above the tang on either side on top and the screws going into the bottom stuck out so far they had apparently already scratched the lever were it touches. This was the same with 2 other ones I asked to look at as well. One of them had tooling marks when I worked the lever to look into the chamber as well.

The next gun I checked out was the M92 which I don't really have anything negative to say about, other than not really liking the wood very much.

I decided to look at the Rio Grande just out of curiosity and ended up comparing the 4 they had (1 stainless, 3 blued) just to compare their quality. I can't say enough about this gun after handling the other ones. The fit and finish was very impressive on all of them! 3 of the 4 cycled smoothly and with a little work (clean/lube) I'm sure would be even better. The wood's not great, but it fit the rifle exactly how it's supposed to. It has barrel bands, which I'm not too excited about, but for a brand new rifle that will cost about $400 OTD I can get over that.

Does anyone have experience with these Rossi RG models? I've been cruising the net looking for anything I can on these after seeing them and haven't been able to turn up too much, unfortunately. I'd love some perspective from owners =) Thanks for listening and the continued advice.

[Infidel08]

I have a 444 Marlin and it or a 45/70 would make a great all around rifle.

[tahunua001]

I live in Washington State and as far as I know, it's illegal to hunt over bait or with hounds. I still wouldn't plan on taking more than a 100 yard shot at one though.

usually there are bait and hound exceptions for bears. unlike deer, elk and other large game, bears are loners that tend to have very large territories and do not keep the same schedules from day to day unless they have a very predictable food source so the only real way to hunt them are with bait or hounds. I haven't read about the washington laws but idaho has separate black bear seasons, spring is bait only, fall is hound only. of course you can hunt without either of these but your odds of a harvest are slim.

[K1500]

You have a bunch of responses, and the truth is any of the choices would do. A .44 and a .30-30 would both be better for your purposes than the .45-70 EXCEPT when it comes to elk or big bear. Even then they will work.

Someone mentioned the .454, which essentially combines the attributes of the .45 Colt/.44 Mag with the power of the .47-70. It looks like a great choice as well.

If I were you, I would buy a .30-30. If not a .30-30 I would go for a .44 magnum. I would anticipate buying a larger caliber bolt gun in the future, such as a .30-06 to cover the larger game/longer ranges.

I believe you will have more fun and save money with the smaller calibers at the range. Both the .30-30 and .44 mag cost about the same to shoot in factory ammo, and both are substantially cheaper than the .45-70.

[wilkup]

Hey guys, thanks for all your help on this. Turns out I didn't get any of the calibers I asked about! Go figure =)
I found a Marlin 336ER for a deal I couldn't say no to. Great condition and under $500!!! Now to find some ammunition...

[Sport45]

In .356 Winchester? You certainly strayed off the beaten path with that one.

Have you found any brass for it? Once you get set up for your reloads you should really like it.

Enjoy!

[tahunua001]

congrats on the 336. it will serve you well. be sure to post a range review.

[wilkup]

Found some ammunition =)
Took it to the range and got it sighted in.
Got my tags for this season.
Heading out to find some bears this weekend!
Hope you like the pics =) and thanks for the help everyone!