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Old March 22, 2013, 05:59 PM   #1
Rigmarol
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Black Powder and Progressive presses

I want to use my Dillon 550b to load up black powder .45colt cartridges for CAS.
I've loaded up a couple hundred by hand on a single stage and I don't want to do it that way if I can do it on my progressive.

I read that Dillon says not to use their powder system with black powder and I hear of reloaders who say "pish-posh I've been doing it for a hunerd years and I ain't blowed up yet!"

I don't like to go contrary to the manufacturers' warnings so I'm asking if anyone has a suggestion on how to use the progressive with black powder.

Does anyone make an approved powder system that can be used on the Dillon 550b?

Thanks.
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Old March 23, 2013, 05:18 PM   #2
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Bump

130+ views and no replies.... Maybe the progressive and black powder isn't a good idea after all?

I was hoping someone knew of a sparkless non static inducing powder system for the Dillon...
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Old March 23, 2013, 05:33 PM   #3
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I believe,don't quote me, that rcbs came out and said BP could beused in their powder hopper, but I haven't seen any statement from Dillon. Why not call them?
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Old March 23, 2013, 05:36 PM   #4
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Static wont set bp off. The problem as I see it is getting enough powder in the case. Traditionally bp is loaded with a drop tube so powder settles uniformly. Some vibrate the case to settle powder.
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Old March 23, 2013, 05:59 PM   #5
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Where I live, we have very low humidity (4% out right now) so I won't risk static setting the powder off, which is why I use a Lee Turret press. Quicker to use than a single stage press.
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Old March 23, 2013, 06:11 PM   #6
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I'm with Hawg, I don't think that a modern powder thrower is going to load up the case properly. I suppose that if you could rig up some kind of drop tube and stand for the thrower, you could get it to work. We know that static won't set black powder off.

I load mine on a turret press and just pull the case out right before seating the bullet and add powder.
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Old March 23, 2013, 06:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
Traditionally bp is loaded with a drop tube so powder settles uniformly. Some vibrate the case to settle powder.
Long range BPCR maybe; but drop tubes and vibrators are wholly unnceessary for pistol caliber loads. They are dispensed by a powder measure or dipping with Lee or other powder dippers.

I've been using a Hornady L-N-L progressive press to load BP using smokeless and BP powder measures for years. Also load my shotgun shells on a MEC Sizemaster with an adjustable powder/shot bar.
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Old March 23, 2013, 07:14 PM   #8
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That's good to know. Thanks Fingers. Guess I've been doing it the hard way.
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Old March 23, 2013, 07:20 PM   #9
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Thanks guys, I was beginning to think you were out doing other things, lol.

I load BP rifle cartridges for my Sharps and use a drop tube. But I don't see the need for my CAS .45Colt loads. They load fine with a Lee dipper, so I believe, if safe, a powder measure would be good too. I'm just worried about blowing up my shop.

I want to speed up the process. I'm also using a turret Press right now. It's nice but why not speed things up if possible, and safe of course.
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Old March 23, 2013, 08:00 PM   #10
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I think I may have found my answer.

I think I'm going to get the RCBS Black Powder measure:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/837...powder-measure

And Dillon's powder measure adapter:
http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/con...easure_Adapter
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Old March 24, 2013, 01:24 PM   #11
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I load45-70 with my 550B but I pull the pin at station two so I can remove the case and charge the powder with a Lyman 55 and a drop tube, if I was using less powder I'd used the Dillon powder measure. Lots of folks over at cast bollets use the Dillon powder measure without problems.
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Old March 24, 2013, 06:28 PM   #12
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I guess I can drop over there and see what they have to say too. Thanks.

It's all about going against the manufacturer's warning that has me all doubtful and such. I'm curious if anyone has actually ignited a powder measure with black powder. The warning has to come from somewhere... doesn't it?

Thanks, I go take a look over on Castboolits.
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Old March 24, 2013, 06:33 PM   #13
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They had the same discussion over there, I don't believe you can set BP off via static electricity.
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Old March 24, 2013, 07:16 PM   #14
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Check it out.

http://youtu.be/-5Z5yAeO3dw
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Old March 24, 2013, 07:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rigmarol
It's all about going against the manufacturer's warning that has me all doubtful and such. I'm curious if anyone has actually ignited a powder measure with black powder. The warning has to come from somewhere... doesn't it?
If you read the instruction manual of a lot of firearms made today, you will see a warning not to use reloaded ammo too.
A lot of it is defensive CYA for this litiguous society.
It's extremely unlikely that a powder measurer will ignite black powder but if it ever does happen, you know who will be sued, even if the guy doing the reloading was drunk and had a lit cigarette in his mouth.
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Old March 24, 2013, 07:57 PM   #16
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Nice video, I've seen a half dozen or more videos similar.
All claim you can't ignite BP with static electricity.

I understand CYA procedures and warnings but I would sure like to hear of an actual detonation to hang this on.

I went to Castboolits and searched on black powder and dillon and variation on this and came up with nothing. I got tired of trying searches and scanning for the info. I'll try again another time.

In the mean time, I sent off an email to dillon asking if they can give me a good reason not to use BP in their power system.
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Old March 25, 2013, 07:25 AM   #17
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I was looking into a BP powder measure. I'm tired of loading all my N-SSA cartridges by weighing each load on a scale.

You've got the Lyman #55 powder measure for $83, and then the Lyman #55 for black powder for about $140. The only difference I can see is that the one for BP is made with an aluminum powder hopper.

Goex just recently switched from metal cans to plastic.

I would really like to know if the whole thing is about static and if the plastic is the only difference.

I've heard people say they've measured BP with the plastic powder measure but they have to clean it after every use. Why?

Steve
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Old March 25, 2013, 10:57 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maillemaker
I've heard people say they've measured BP with the plastic powder measure but they have to clean it after every use. Why?
The reason for cleaning the Hornady, Lyman and RCBS powder measures after each use is not the plastic hopper. It's the hygroscopic or corrosive nature of BP and substitutes that freezes the rotors. APP being the worst - it'l lock up a rotor while in use -, and real BP being the most forgivng.

I've never used a Lee powder measure so cannot speak to the necessity of cleaning them after use.
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Old March 25, 2013, 11:13 AM   #19
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But I thought I remembered "hearing" that BP is not hygroscopic - only burned BP residue is?

Edit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunpowder

Talks about being hygroscopic.

Steve

Last edited by maillemaker; March 25, 2013 at 11:19 AM.
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Old March 25, 2013, 05:43 PM   #20
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From your Wiki link.

Because corned black powder grains made with saltpeter are less affected by moisture in the air, they can be stored unsealed without degradation by humidity.

the residue from burnt black powder is hygroscopic and with the addition of moisture absorbed from the air, this residue forms a caustic substance.
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Old March 25, 2013, 09:55 PM   #21
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From what I have found, the BP measure is not only non plastic hopper but the drum is brass not steel.

At least with the RCBS model I'm looking at.
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Old March 26, 2013, 10:38 AM   #22
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maillemaker.
A simple device that you can make. Weigh a powder charge. Dump into an empty case a little larger than the caliber you are using. Mark the empty and cut it off to that mark. Solder a piece of heavy copper wire onto the cut off case and VOILA you have a custom made powder measure. Dip it into the selected powder and fill your cases.
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Old March 26, 2013, 12:08 PM   #23
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According to the GOEX MSDS

"When dry, black powder is compatible with most metals; however, it is hygroscopic and when wet, attacks all common metals except stainless steel.

http://goexpowder.com/images/LoadCha...A-Blasting.pdf
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Old March 26, 2013, 12:36 PM   #24
maillemaker
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Quote:
A simple device that you can make. Weigh a powder charge. Dump into an empty case a little larger than the caliber you are using. Mark the empty and cut it off to that mark. Solder a piece of heavy copper wire onto the cut off case and VOILA you have a custom made powder measure. Dip it into the selected powder and fill your cases.
I've done this already - I have a little plastic vial that I have cut at just the right size for 48 grains of powder. Problem is, as you shake it around you get inconsistent results. Probably +/- 2 grains? I try to keep my charges +/- .2 grains.

I think a mechanical dispenser would be fairly repeatable once you set it up to dispense a certain charge. I know the smokeless dispenser on my Lee Pro 1000 is extremely repeatable. Probably within +/- .1 grains.

Steve
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Old April 4, 2013, 08:28 PM   #25
Rigmarol
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My letter to Dillon:

Quote:
I'm a happy user of the Dillon 550b. Great product.

I'm writing today to ask about using Black Powder in your powder measure. I know the advice is to NOT use black powder to avoid static electricity and detonation of the powder.

However, I keep finding other Dillon users who are successfully using their Dillon powder measures with black powder and the keep telling me I shouldn't worry about it.

I'm sure you have a good reason for this warning and I'm curious if you have specific cases where users have detonated their powder measures while using black powder?

I have also read and watched YouTube video that supposedly disproves that black powder is sensitive to static electricity.

Can you provide your best reasons for saying not to use black powder in your powder measures?

Thanks, I appreciate your fine products and top notch customer support.
Dillon's reply:

Quote:
Using black powder in our measure is not recommended. Doing so voids the warranty. Black powder has a much lower spark ignition temperature than smokeless powder. There are steel parts on our powder measure. Use an approved after market black powder measure as sold bu Lyman or Hornady.

Thank you,

Dillon Precision Products, Inc.
... not much help.
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