Tok ammo

ks_wayward_son · May 31, 2010, 06:46 PM

Alright, took advantage of the sale SOG is having on the Yugo Md. 57 Tok....and now am looking into ammo. Will definitely be buying some rounds for this beast after the next paycheck. Read about the differences between the various origins of the ammo (i.e. Bulgarian, Romanian, Russian, Polish), and that the Polish casings seem to split after firing. However, being that this is an old Eastern Bloc weapon of Russian origin, these things are built to take abuse. I have heard though, to seriously stay away from some of the Czech ammo that was produced for the submachine guns because pressures exceed that which the frame of the Toks can handle...but a different story for the CZ 52, which logistically could be the very much smaller equivalent of a T-82 tank. Anyways, excited about the gun and how cheap it will be to shoot. Which means if my girlfriend happens to like it also, it won't be that abusive to my pocketbook.

B. Lahey · May 31, 2010, 07:01 PM

For milsurp 7.62x25mm I prefer the Romanian. It works, is cheap, and doesn't stink quite as bad as some of the others. It still smells like a dead cat on fire, but it won't choke you out like the Bulgarian ammo.

No problems with blown primers or cracked cases either, and I've shot a stack of cans of it. Can't say that for some of the other tok ammo I've tried.

But I prefer Prvi over any of the milsurp cans. It is also sold as "wolf gold". It is nice, noncorrosive ammo that doesn't smell at all like a chemical plant disaster or burning varmints. The HP load is even a respectable choice for carry if you wanted to do that for some reason.

jonnyc · May 31, 2010, 09:14 PM

a. Congrats, you'll love your Tokarev.
b. There's no such thing as "hot sub-gun ammo".
c. The TT is tougher than a CZ.
d. Any of the ammo suggested above would be good, EXCEPT for the Czech, as lots of that is really crappy missfire/click-bang stuff. I'll shoot 1938 Soviet ammo before I'll shoot 1950s Czech fodder.

Cheapshooter · May 31, 2010, 09:42 PM

I have about 700 rnds of the Czec ammo on 8 rnd stripper clips. I am assuming this is the sub-gun stuff. I have only shot about two boxes of it (80 rnds) but have not had any problems with it. I have used it in both a CZ 52 and Romi TT33.
I did find out that it has steel core bullets. Wow, 1600 fps, 85 gr, steel core. That stuff will penetrate anything!

jonnyc · June 1, 2010, 05:14 AM

"I am assuming this is the SUB-GUN STUFF. I have only shot about two boxes of it (80 rnds) but have not had any problems with it. I have used it in both a CZ 52 and Romi TT33"

No such thing. It was designed, as you have seen, for pistol use also. The labels even say PISTOL CARTRIDGES.

Cheapshooter · June 1, 2010, 09:49 AM

I ment the ammo that everybody thinks was special for the sub guns. Only because it comes on the stripper clips. I know that there was not a special load for the CZ26 sub machinegun.

B. Lahey · June 1, 2010, 12:47 PM

Quote:

I did find out that it has steel core bullets. Wow, 1600 fps, 85 gr, steel core. That stuff will penetrate anything!

Steel jacket, not core. There is a tremendous difference both in terms of penetration and the legalities of import and possession.

Gunplummer · June 1, 2010, 03:25 PM

I used sub gun ammo in the early 70's. Had a chinese 33 that was a Korean bring back. That was the only ammo available at the time and I had to get it at a class3 dealer. I ran a whole case through it with out a problem. I doubt if there is a difference between sub and pistol ammo, but it was sub ammo. You are better off with new non-corrosive stuff, I had to clean that gun for three days after I shot it.

Cheapshooter · June 1, 2010, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Steel jacket, not core. There is a tremendous difference both in terms of penetration and the legalities of import and possession

.

That being said, I know what it is. I had he occasion to find one I shot. Copper jacket separated from a very hard, magnetic pill of about 25 caliber of so. If it ain't steel, I would like to know what it is. Say no more! Never know who is looking!!!!!

TX Hunter · June 1, 2010, 06:23 PM

I recomend the Polish Ammo, I have been using that lately and it is accurate, and sure fire.
Also very inexpensive.

jonnyc · June 1, 2010, 07:43 PM

"I doubt if there is a difference between sub and pistol ammo, but it was sub ammo."

Gunplummer, your doubts are well-founded, there is NO SUCH THING as Tokarev "sub-gun" ammo, it was ALL designed for pistol and SMG use.

I couldn't guess what percentage, but a good amount of the Czech surplus Tokarev ammo does have a steel core; actually two different styles, cylindrical and mushroom shaped.

Gunplummer · June 2, 2010, 08:48 AM

I think the "hot" ammo thing started with people buying it for the 7.63 Mauser. I used to shoot 7.63 Mauser in my 33, it was almost impossible to get 7.62x25 back then. The case is a little different, and the load is really light compared to the 7.62x25. It would not bring the slide back far enough to eject half the time. I imagine sticking 7.62x25 into a broomhandle Mauser might cause some severe problems.

orangello · June 2, 2010, 09:43 AM

There seems to be a GREAT deal of disagreement about this ammo. I have been considering picking up a tokarev for a while (buddy beat me to last gun show

) and would like to have a reliable basis for deciding which ammo to buy when i eventually get to buy a tokarev. No offense, but can anybody cite a source for their ammo info (preferably something other than wikipedia).

Thanks!

jonnyc · June 2, 2010, 02:36 PM

No worries, Orangello, a TT or CZ should happily digest any flavor of milsurp 7.62x25 you might ever come across. The only concern is using hotter ammo in an older and potentially unsafe C96 Mauser pistol.

psyshack · June 2, 2010, 09:16 PM

TT tougher than CZ-52, Wrong
Yes there is some hot Sub-Gun ammo. I have chrono'ed some hot russian, romie and chez stuff out with my 52. All at 1700 fps. And have reloaded up to 1800 fps. And can see 2k fps out of very hot reloads in a solid CZ-52. Not in a TT.

My 52 is my fav. pistol. off iron and hand, clays die at 100 yards!

It was a very clean oem pistol. Replaced the firing pin and rollers. Stripped her down and removed 90% of the ugly comblock machine work marks. Put a fresh park job on her including the barrel bore. And off to the races she went. Safety works great, decocker works. But never trust it. And the trigger is like a micro switch. And it shoots surplus, retail and reloads like they were all made for it.

jonnyc · June 2, 2010, 09:38 PM

"TT tougher than CZ-52, Wrong
Yes there is some hot Sub-Gun ammo. I have chrono'ed some hot russian, romie and chez stuff out with my 52. All at 1700 fps. And have reloaded up to 1800 fps. And can see 2k fps out of very hot reloads in a solid CZ-52. Not in a TT."

Think again. Search on-line and you will find a good number of posts about CZs that have not held-up to heavy 7.62TT loads, but you will not find any related to TT "kabooms". All 7.62x25 is hot relative to US-made ammo, but I seriously doubt your 1800fps numbers are reached by any factory ammo. You can load anything to any pressure and call it what you want, but it ain't factory "sub-gun ammo". I have a collection of over 100 Soviet-bloc 7.62x25 Tokarev boxes, packets and labels, and all say either pistol or pistol and submachine gun ammo. You will find no reference in any East-bloc publication that states or suggests that any 7.62x25 ammo was loaded hot for SMG use only. I have a large file on the Tokarev cartridge, you're welcome to come read it all. Bring a cot.

psyshack · June 2, 2010, 11:16 PM

What ever... LOLOLOLOL

I'm no nebie to these pistols. This is my third one in 2o years. And hands down the best. I have also owned three TT's and let us not speak of the Mark.

All of my 52's have always been near match grade pistols. TT's,,, Ive seen some real junk! And not to dish Russian weapons. I really like my nagant rifles. Both should have seen action. And my 1895 Tula 1936 revolver is a very good weapon. 7 shots and ready for a silencer revolver style.

jonnyc · June 3, 2010, 04:56 AM

"And my 1895 Tula 1936 revolver is a very good weapon."

Ahhh...now I understand...you are truly insane

Gunplummer · June 3, 2010, 05:24 AM

What became of all the Russian models? The pawn shops used to be overloaded with them when you could not get ammo. I don't even see them at gun shows.

B. Lahey · June 3, 2010, 04:41 PM

Quote:

It was a very clean oem pistol

Sorry, but that one has been refinished. Probably by Century from the look of it.

pelo801 · June 3, 2010, 06:11 PM

since we are on the topic, i thought i would pass this along to anyone that is interested, even though they are missing one side of the grip, but the price is still good. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=172213331

Cheapshooter · June 3, 2010, 09:07 PM

Quote:

but the price is still good.

Quote:

Started at $175.00

Quote:

These can all be good condition shooter grade guns with a little tinkering.
All have some dings and dents.
All are missing the left hand grip panel.
You are bidding on 1 (one) gun.
Thank you and good luck bidding.

For a M57 in that condition

http://www.southernohiogun.com/
Home / Yugoslavian Md. 57 7.62x25 Cal. NOW C&R ELIGIBLE!

Yugoslavian Md. 57 7.62x25 Cal. NOW C&R ELIGIBLE!

Availability: In stock.

Regular Price: $214.00
Special Price: $189.00

ON SALE for a LIMITED TIME!
SAVE $25!
Regular Price:$214.00
Special Price:$189.00
Qty:Add to Cart
Product Description
These are rare Yugo Md.57 TT Tokarev pistols in 7.62x25 Cal. Each comes with 2-9Rd. magazines, holster, and cleaning rod. Very good condition pistols, and a great addition to any military collection!

pelo801 · June 3, 2010, 10:02 PM

well that's a way better deal, especially with two mags

May 31, 2010, 06:46 PM	#1
ks_wayward_son Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2007 Posts: 332	Tok ammo Alright, took advantage of the sale SOG is having on the Yugo Md. 57 Tok....and now am looking into ammo. Will definitely be buying some rounds for this beast after the next paycheck. Read about the differences between the various origins of the ammo (i.e. Bulgarian, Romanian, Russian, Polish), and that the Polish casings seem to split after firing. However, being that this is an old Eastern Bloc weapon of Russian origin, these things are built to take abuse. I have heard though, to seriously stay away from some of the Czech ammo that was produced for the submachine guns because pressures exceed that which the frame of the Toks can handle...but a different story for the CZ 52, which logistically could be the very much smaller equivalent of a T-82 tank. Anyways, excited about the gun and how cheap it will be to shoot. Which means if my girlfriend happens to like it also, it won't be that abusive to my pocketbook.

May 31, 2010, 07:01 PM	#2
B. Lahey Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,857	For milsurp 7.62x25mm I prefer the Romanian. It works, is cheap, and doesn't stink quite as bad as some of the others. It still smells like a dead cat on fire, but it won't choke you out like the Bulgarian ammo. No problems with blown primers or cracked cases either, and I've shot a stack of cans of it. Can't say that for some of the other tok ammo I've tried. But I prefer Prvi over any of the milsurp cans. It is also sold as "wolf gold". It is nice, noncorrosive ammo that doesn't smell at all like a chemical plant disaster or burning varmints. The HP load is even a respectable choice for carry if you wanted to do that for some reason. __________________ "A human being is primarily a bag for putting food into; the other functions and faculties may be more godlike, but in point of time they come afterwards." -George Orwell

May 31, 2010, 09:42 PM	#4
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	I have about 700 rnds of the Czec ammo on 8 rnd stripper clips. I am assuming this is the sub-gun stuff. I have only shot about two boxes of it (80 rnds) but have not had any problems with it. I have used it in both a CZ 52 and Romi TT33. I did find out that it has steel core bullets. Wow, 1600 fps, 85 gr, steel core. That stuff will penetrate anything! __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

June 1, 2010, 09:49 AM	#6
Cheapshooter Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2007 Location: Missouri Posts: 8,306	I ment the ammo that everybody thinks was special for the sub guns. Only because it comes on the stripper clips. I know that there was not a special load for the CZ26 sub machinegun. __________________ Cheapshooter's rules of gun ownership #1: NEVER SELL OR TRADE ANYTHING!

May 31, 2010, 09:14 PM	#3
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	a. Congrats, you'll love your Tokarev. b. There's no such thing as "hot sub-gun ammo". c. The TT is tougher than a CZ. d. Any of the ammo suggested above would be good, EXCEPT for the Czech, as lots of that is really crappy missfire/click-bang stuff. I'll shoot 1938 Soviet ammo before I'll shoot 1950s Czech fodder.

June 1, 2010, 05:14 AM	#5
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	"I am assuming this is the SUB-GUN STUFF. I have only shot about two boxes of it (80 rnds) but have not had any problems with it. I have used it in both a CZ 52 and Romi TT33" No such thing. It was designed, as you have seen, for pistol use also. The labels even say PISTOL CARTRIDGES.

June 1, 2010, 03:25 PM	#8
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	I used sub gun ammo in the early 70's. Had a chinese 33 that was a Korean bring back. That was the only ammo available at the time and I had to get it at a class3 dealer. I ran a whole case through it with out a problem. I doubt if there is a difference between sub and pistol ammo, but it was sub ammo. You are better off with new non-corrosive stuff, I had to clean that gun for three days after I shot it.

June 1, 2010, 06:23 PM	#10
TX Hunter Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2010 Location: East Texas USA Posts: 1,805	I recomend the Polish Ammo, I have been using that lately and it is accurate, and sure fire. Also very inexpensive.

June 1, 2010, 07:43 PM	#11
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	"I doubt if there is a difference between sub and pistol ammo, but it was sub ammo." Gunplummer, your doubts are well-founded, there is NO SUCH THING as Tokarev "sub-gun" ammo, it was ALL designed for pistol and SMG use. I couldn't guess what percentage, but a good amount of the Czech surplus Tokarev ammo does have a steel core; actually two different styles, cylindrical and mushroom shaped.

June 2, 2010, 08:48 AM	#12
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	I think the "hot" ammo thing started with people buying it for the 7.63 Mauser. I used to shoot 7.63 Mauser in my 33, it was almost impossible to get 7.62x25 back then. The case is a little different, and the load is really light compared to the 7.62x25. It would not bring the slide back far enough to eject half the time. I imagine sticking 7.62x25 into a broomhandle Mauser might cause some severe problems.

June 2, 2010, 09:43 AM	#13
orangello Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2009 Posts: 566	There seems to be a GREAT deal of disagreement about this ammo. I have been considering picking up a tokarev for a while (buddy beat me to last gun show ) and would like to have a reliable basis for deciding which ammo to buy when i eventually get to buy a tokarev. No offense, but can anybody cite a source for their ammo info (preferably something other than wikipedia). Thanks!

June 2, 2010, 02:36 PM	#14
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	No worries, Orangello, a TT or CZ should happily digest any flavor of milsurp 7.62x25 you might ever come across. The only concern is using hotter ammo in an older and potentially unsafe C96 Mauser pistol.

June 2, 2010, 09:16 PM	#15
psyshack Junior member Join Date: May 27, 2010 Posts: 159	TT tougher than CZ-52, Wrong Yes there is some hot Sub-Gun ammo. I have chrono'ed some hot russian, romie and chez stuff out with my 52. All at 1700 fps. And have reloaded up to 1800 fps. And can see 2k fps out of very hot reloads in a solid CZ-52. Not in a TT. My 52 is my fav. pistol. off iron and hand, clays die at 100 yards! It was a very clean oem pistol. Replaced the firing pin and rollers. Stripped her down and removed 90% of the ugly comblock machine work marks. Put a fresh park job on her including the barrel bore. And off to the races she went. Safety works great, decocker works. But never trust it. And the trigger is like a micro switch. And it shoots surplus, retail and reloads like they were all made for it.

June 2, 2010, 09:38 PM	#16
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	"TT tougher than CZ-52, Wrong Yes there is some hot Sub-Gun ammo. I have chrono'ed some hot russian, romie and chez stuff out with my 52. All at 1700 fps. And have reloaded up to 1800 fps. And can see 2k fps out of very hot reloads in a solid CZ-52. Not in a TT." Think again. Search on-line and you will find a good number of posts about CZs that have not held-up to heavy 7.62TT loads, but you will not find any related to TT "kabooms". All 7.62x25 is hot relative to US-made ammo, but I seriously doubt your 1800fps numbers are reached by any factory ammo. You can load anything to any pressure and call it what you want, but it ain't factory "sub-gun ammo". I have a collection of over 100 Soviet-bloc 7.62x25 Tokarev boxes, packets and labels, and all say either pistol or pistol and submachine gun ammo. You will find no reference in any East-bloc publication that states or suggests that any 7.62x25 ammo was loaded hot for SMG use only. I have a large file on the Tokarev cartridge, you're welcome to come read it all. Bring a cot.

June 2, 2010, 11:16 PM	#17
psyshack Junior member Join Date: May 27, 2010 Posts: 159	What ever... LOLOLOLOL I'm no nebie to these pistols. This is my third one in 2o years. And hands down the best. I have also owned three TT's and let us not speak of the Mark. All of my 52's have always been near match grade pistols. TT's,,, Ive seen some real junk! And not to dish Russian weapons. I really like my nagant rifles. Both should have seen action. And my 1895 Tula 1936 revolver is a very good weapon. 7 shots and ready for a silencer revolver style.

June 3, 2010, 04:56 AM	#18
jonnyc Senior Member Join Date: July 20, 2009 Location: PA Posts: 1,731	"And my 1895 Tula 1936 revolver is a very good weapon." Ahhh...now I understand...you are truly insane

June 3, 2010, 05:24 AM	#19
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	What became of all the Russian models? The pawn shops used to be overloaded with them when you could not get ammo. I don't even see them at gun shows.

June 3, 2010, 06:11 PM	#21
pelo801 Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2009 Posts: 718	since we are on the topic, i thought i would pass this along to anyone that is interested, even though they are missing one side of the grip, but the price is still good. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=172213331

June 3, 2010, 10:02 PM	#23
pelo801 Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2009 Posts: 718	well that's a way better deal, especially with two mags