New Old Army - Page 3

Smokin_Gun · May 26, 2011, 12:53 PM

If ya put the ROA side by side with and 1861 Old Army Remington original...it's the closet patern to the ROA out there ... with some excellant changes made by Bill Rugers 1972 Production on his Ruger Old Army(ROA) 20th Century up grades...

Hawg · May 26, 2011, 10:57 PM

You can try and justify it's existence any way you want to. The ROA is always going to be a never was. Like it for what it is, a modern creation. Don't give it historical provenance where it has none.

pohill · May 26, 2011, 11:36 PM

One thing about ROAs - they're all originals. They don't make replicas of ROAs.

Hawg · May 26, 2011, 11:53 PM

Yep all the way back to 1972. What a history.

ClemBert · May 27, 2011, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawg Haggen

Yep all the way back to 1972. What a history

Hehehehe....now you've dated yourself.

A significant portion of the world's population wasn't even born as of yet in 1972. To them, 1972 is ancient history.

arcticap · May 27, 2011, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marksman8351

ok so my other new to bp question is what is the old army styled after what is the frame consider ie1851 navy) and so on

The question was about "style".
It was styled to look just like a percussion Blackhawk.
That's why Bill Ruger named it the "Old Army" because it was such an "old" design compared to the "Remington New Model Army" and the "Colt 1860 Army".
It's the old, old, Old Army alright, the oldest of all of the Army revolvers!
It's like the American League of major league baseball having the designated hitter, the rules for which have been adapted to fit modern times.

Smokin_Gun · May 27, 2011, 12:36 PM

Hawg you still don't get it ... yur stuck in or on the concept of 19th Century Firearms and the Ruger that Bill made is a 20th Century original C&B .457" or Conversion .45Colt BP or Smokeless Rev...and it's probly the Best BP C&B or Smokeless .45Colt ever made ... histrorical value? It's very much a Historical valued American Made Revolver...more so I quess than you'll ever realize.
I get real tired of people puttin' good guns down, why do you do that...
This my friend is the main reason I don't frequent forums like the Firing line anymore.
Why can't you speak well of a Guns attributes instead of always tryin' to find fault or put them down.
The ROA I said was closest to lookin' like an 1861 Rem Old Army not that it was a replica of it, as the ROA is an original. I'll jus' go back to my Forums and enjoy my BP shooting and conversations with people that don't pitch a bitch about needless redereck...
Later folks...I'm a gone.
SG

Hawg · May 27, 2011, 12:37 PM

Quote:

It was styled to look just like a percussion Blackhawk.

Because that's what it is. Nothing historical about it.

Quote:

Hehehehe....now you've dated yourself.

I was born in 56 what's your excuse?

ClemBert · May 27, 2011, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawg Haggen

I was born in 56 what's your excuse?

OMG, that there is prehistoric times!

Quote:

Originally Posted by marksman8351

ok so my other new to bp question is what is the old army styled after what is the frame consider ie1851 navy) and so on

The ROA obviously is based upon the Ruger Blackhawk. The Ruger Blackhawk design was "inspired by" the Colt Peacemaker. "Old Army" is nothing more than a marketing name that is trademarked similar to "Blackhawk".

Smokin_Gun · May 27, 2011, 12:58 PM

I'll find my pic of the 1861 Rem Old Army Next to the Rugers Old Army if need be as it is the Closest of any Revolvers that were made in the 19th Century.
The 20th Century ROA has some of the best features of at least three Revs I can think of. the R&S, Rems, & Colt. None of which were replicated parts ... hell it's a dang Original Ruger an ROA and that's about all there is to it other than a damn good Revolver...
That I can live with all the rest is well not much to do with an Original Ruger ... The Vacquero came out after the Ruger execs stopped makin' the ROA...so go figure.
I think I'll go shootin' instead a tryin' to make known the Historical value of one a Bill's best Revs made... see ya's

pohill · May 27, 2011, 02:59 PM

I think most BP revolver shooters who are into history are not fans of the ROA at first - I know I never liked the looks of them, or their lack of historical value. I swore I'd never get one - then I did and I was hooked. On those days when I just feel like shooting a BP revolver and not dealing with any particular problems I grab my ROA and head to the range (especially on a cold day - the larger chambers make for easier loading). The adjustable sights are a plus but I usually don't adjust them - I just change my point of aim. I like to alternate my guns, and the ROA has definitely earned its place in the lineup. They're not for everyone and it might not be my favorite, but I'm glad I have it.

Legionnaire · May 27, 2011, 06:46 PM

Quote:

so does anyone know if u can legally hunt with this gun? and what kinda season it would fall into?

You asked specifically about NY. I trust you are aware that NY has some screwy laws pertaining to black powder handguns. Unless they liberalized the law in the last seven years, they are legal to own without a permit ... as long as you don't also posses powder and ball. The instant you possess gun, powder, and ball together, NY classifies the combination as a "firearm" (read that "handgun requiring a permit") and you have to have it listed on you permit ... which I trust you have.

If possessed legally, gun is legal to hunt with during gun season in both rifle and shotgun-only areas. Don't know about muzzleloading season. Maybe TFL regular Peetzakilla can answer that. But the DEC has a very informative website. Check that out. http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/28182.html

Oh, and you got a steal on you ROA. I paid $400 for my 1994 manufacture stainless specimen.

Legionnaire · May 27, 2011, 10:22 PM

Okay, found it. From the DEC website at http://www.dec.ny.gov/outdoor/8305.html

Quote:

The legal firearm for this season is a muzzleloading rifle or pistol (including smoothbore muzzleloaders) loaded through the muzzle, shooting a single projectile and having a bore of .44 inches or larger. Double-barreled muzzleloaders and percussion cap revolvers are not legal during the special muzzleloading season. If you hunt with a single-shot muzzleloading pistol, you must have a New York State Pistol License.

There's your answer. Can't use a cap'n ball revolver during the special muzzleloading season, and a pistol license is required even for a single shot muzzleloading pistol.

Hawg · May 27, 2011, 11:28 PM

Quote:

I get real tired of people puttin' good guns down, why do you do that...

I'm not puttin it down. I'll be the first to say they're good quality guns. What gripes my butt is people that try to compare them to guns that were around back in the day and say they look like this or resemble that. They don't. Well maybe if you're far enough away and squint into the sun they might.

Smokin_Gun · May 28, 2011, 12:17 AM

Ok tell me there's no simularities between the ROA and the 1861 Rem Old Army ... Simular is the word I used ... I don't claim to remember what anyone else says ... there is a reason Bill Ruger called it the Old Army yaq know. And it is historical as they are not in production anymore and they are highly collectable to some collectors...so it is in fact a part of Revolver History. Do you disagree with that statement also?

All I'm sayin' Hawg is that the Ruger Old Army looks more like an 1861 Rem Old Army than it does a Rodgers & Spencer or a Colt ... everything that evolves comes from somewhere ... and my eyes tell me that the Size, Frame, weight, and look are more like a Remington 1861 Old Army than any other C&B Rev out there... so as you can see it bugs me just as much as it does you only 180 degrees differant ;O)

Y'all be the Judges ... make this reply a Poll...ifin ya want..

Thanks,
SG

Hawg · May 28, 2011, 12:51 AM

They're a part of recent revolver history. I see no more than a vague resemblance in part of the frame. Like I said if you're far enough away and squint into the sun maybe. They have no place in the part of history I'm interested in.

Smokin_Gun · May 28, 2011, 01:22 AM

I'm so sorry Hawg I din't mean to blemish yur part of History or your Interest in it Heh Heh ... I'm talkin' about History of Revlovers not your specific interest in Revolver History ...

I din't mean to crinkle yur boots ... I'll drop the topic then as I can see you view much closer than I do as I have 20/30 vision anyway and it comes in handy when it views History

See ya round Pard...

Hawg · May 28, 2011, 05:24 AM

You didn't krinkle my boots. Just exasperated me a mite.

CharlesK80 · May 28, 2011, 08:54 AM

Similarity, like beauty, is in the eye of...well, you know the rest. The ROA is an original, but is more similar to the Remington OA than any other CB.

But so what?

My Corvette is not a Ferrari, but is more similar to it than your SUV or F150.

All are grocery getters.

ClemBert · May 28, 2011, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawg Haggen

I'm not puttin it down. I'll be the first to say they're good quality guns. What gripes my butt is people that try to compare them to guns that were around back in the day and say they look like this or resemble that. They don't. Well maybe if you're far enough away and squint into the sun they might.

I'm on the same boat. It's just silly for folks to compare the ROA to the 19th century BP revolvers. The ROA isn't based on any of them. It is a unique and original design just like the 19th century BP revolvers were. It was designed from and for the 20th century for purposes other than use as a warfare weapon. The 19th century BP revolvers have their historical part in war and the taming of the west whereas the ROA does not share this type of history.

Again, it's just silly for anyone to imply that the ROA is somehow a poor and inaccurate copy of the 1858 or other 19th century BP revolver.

junebug_01 · May 28, 2011, 10:37 AM

Well Clembert, then I think 80% of C&B shooters are silly.

ClemBert · May 28, 2011, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junebug_01

Well Clembert, then I think 80% of C&B shooters are silly.

Depending on your reasons I could see how how you would feel that way. Care to elaborate?

Hawg · May 28, 2011, 01:29 PM

Kinda curious meownself.

junebug_01 · May 28, 2011, 02:51 PM

The Ruger Old Army is not a poor or inaccurate copy of any 19th century revolver. It is a 20 th century interpretation of a C&B revolver using 20th century technology. Bill Ruger used what he thought was the best features from some of the 19th century guns and blended them into the BEST C&B revolver that ever was. Now that they are out of production, whether you like it or not, they take their place in the history of C&B revolvers.

arcticap · May 28, 2011, 03:11 PM

Last night a fellow said that his friend has a black powder revolver that he takes out to shoot every 20 years or so. So I asked his friend what kind is it?
And he said that it was a stainless steel Ruger Old Army with an adjustable sight in mint condition. So then I asked him if he was interested in selling it and he said, "No I won't ever sell that gun as long as I'm still alive!

I know another guy who used to have a Ruger Old Army that sold it years ago because he didn't shoot it much. And he's told me more than once, "I wish that I didn't sell that gun and still had it!"

May 26, 2011, 12:53 PM	#51
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	If ya put the ROA side by side with and 1861 Old Army Remington original...it's the closet patern to the ROA out there ... with some excellant changes made by Bill Rugers 1972 Production on his Ruger Old Army(ROA) 20th Century up grades... __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

May 27, 2011, 12:36 PM	#57
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Hawg you still don't get it ... yur stuck in or on the concept of 19th Century Firearms and the Ruger that Bill made is a 20th Century original C&B .457" or Conversion .45Colt BP or Smokeless Rev...and it's probly the Best BP C&B or Smokeless .45Colt ever made ... histrorical value? It's very much a Historical valued American Made Revolver...more so I quess than you'll ever realize. I get real tired of people puttin' good guns down, why do you do that... This my friend is the main reason I don't frequent forums like the Firing line anymore. Why can't you speak well of a Guns attributes instead of always tryin' to find fault or put them down. The ROA I said was closest to lookin' like an 1861 Rem Old Army not that it was a replica of it, as the ROA is an original. I'll jus' go back to my Forums and enjoy my BP shooting and conversations with people that don't pitch a bitch about needless redereck... Later folks...I'm a gone. SG __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

May 27, 2011, 12:58 PM	#60
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	I'll find my pic of the 1861 Rem Old Army Next to the Rugers Old Army if need be as it is the Closest of any Revolvers that were made in the 19th Century. The 20th Century ROA has some of the best features of at least three Revs I can think of. the R&S, Rems, & Colt. None of which were replicated parts ... hell it's a dang Original Ruger an ROA and that's about all there is to it other than a damn good Revolver... That I can live with all the rest is well not much to do with an Original Ruger ... The Vacquero came out after the Ruger execs stopped makin' the ROA...so go figure. I think I'll go shootin' instead a tryin' to make known the Historical value of one a Bill's best Revs made... see ya's __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

May 28, 2011, 12:17 AM	#65
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Ok tell me there's no simularities between the ROA and the 1861 Rem Old Army ... Simular is the word I used ... I don't claim to remember what anyone else says ... there is a reason Bill Ruger called it the Old Army yaq know. And it is historical as they are not in production anymore and they are highly collectable to some collectors...so it is in fact a part of Revolver History. Do you disagree with that statement also? All I'm sayin' Hawg is that the Ruger Old Army looks more like an 1861 Rem Old Army than it does a Rodgers & Spencer or a Colt ... everything that evolves comes from somewhere ... and my eyes tell me that the Size, Frame, weight, and look are more like a Remington 1861 Old Army than any other C&B Rev out there... so as you can see it bugs me just as much as it does you only 180 degrees differant ;O) Y'all be the Judges ... make this reply a Poll...ifin ya want.. Thanks, SG __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php Last edited by Smokin_Gun; May 28, 2011 at 12:41 AM.

May 28, 2011, 01:22 AM	#67
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	I'm so sorry Hawg I din't mean to blemish yur part of History or your Interest in it Heh Heh ... I'm talkin' about History of Revlovers not your specific interest in Revolver History ... I din't mean to crinkle yur boots ... I'll drop the topic then as I can see you view much closer than I do as I have 20/30 vision anyway and it comes in handy when it views History See ya round Pard... __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

May 26, 2011, 10:57 PM	#52
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	You can try and justify it's existence any way you want to. The ROA is always going to be a never was. Like it for what it is, a modern creation. Don't give it historical provenance where it has none.

May 26, 2011, 11:36 PM	#53
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	One thing about ROAs - they're all originals. They don't make replicas of ROAs.

May 26, 2011, 11:53 PM	#54
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Yep all the way back to 1972. What a history.

May 27, 2011, 02:59 PM	#61
pohill Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: northeast Posts: 521	I think most BP revolver shooters who are into history are not fans of the ROA at first - I know I never liked the looks of them, or their lack of historical value. I swore I'd never get one - then I did and I was hooked. On those days when I just feel like shooting a BP revolver and not dealing with any particular problems I grab my ROA and head to the range (especially on a cold day - the larger chambers make for easier loading). The adjustable sights are a plus but I usually don't adjust them - I just change my point of aim. I like to alternate my guns, and the ROA has definitely earned its place in the lineup. They're not for everyone and it might not be my favorite, but I'm glad I have it.

May 28, 2011, 12:51 AM	#66
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	They're a part of recent revolver history. I see no more than a vague resemblance in part of the frame. Like I said if you're far enough away and squint into the sun maybe. They have no place in the part of history I'm interested in.

May 28, 2011, 05:24 AM	#68
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	You didn't krinkle my boots. Just exasperated me a mite.

May 28, 2011, 08:54 AM	#69
CharlesK80 Junior Member Join Date: May 28, 2011 Posts: 5	Similarity, like beauty, is in the eye of...well, you know the rest. The ROA is an original, but is more similar to the Remington OA than any other CB. But so what? My Corvette is not a Ferrari, but is more similar to it than your SUV or F150. All are grocery getters.

May 28, 2011, 10:37 AM	#71
junebug_01 Junior member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Posts: 37	Well Clembert, then I think 80% of C&B shooters are silly.

May 28, 2011, 01:29 PM	#73
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,188	Kinda curious meownself.

May 28, 2011, 02:51 PM	#74
junebug_01 Junior member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Posts: 37	The Ruger Old Army is not a poor or inaccurate copy of any 19th century revolver. It is a 20 th century interpretation of a C&B revolver using 20th century technology. Bill Ruger used what he thought was the best features from some of the 19th century guns and blended them into the BEST C&B revolver that ever was. Now that they are out of production, whether you like it or not, they take their place in the history of C&B revolvers.

May 28, 2011, 03:11 PM	#75
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	Last night a fellow said that his friend has a black powder revolver that he takes out to shoot every 20 years or so. So I asked his friend what kind is it? And he said that it was a stainless steel Ruger Old Army with an adjustable sight in mint condition. So then I asked him if he was interested in selling it and he said, "No I won't ever sell that gun as long as I'm still alive! I know another guy who used to have a Ruger Old Army that sold it years ago because he didn't shoot it much. And he's told me more than once, "I wish that I didn't sell that gun and still had it!" Last edited by arcticap; May 28, 2011 at 03:35 PM.