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Old August 1, 2013, 11:33 AM   #1
chipchip
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Dies

What is the advantage of bushing dies over standard dies and are they worth the extra cost.
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Old August 1, 2013, 11:53 AM   #2
Unclenick
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A standard die over-resizes the neck then expands it back out with an expander to bring the inside diameter to the correct size. This is necessary because neck thickness differs among manufacturers, and the die maker has no way to know in advance what brass you will be using or if you will thin your necks by outside turning inside reaming them, so he makes the neck size portion of the die for the thinnest brass out there. This approach has the drawback that with a lot of cases with thick necks the expander pulls pretty hard on them to resize the insides of the neck and can bend necks off-axis, which has an adverse impact on accuracy.

With the bushing dies you can buy bushings in increments as fine as 0.001" (Redding). This allows you to pick a bushing that sizes the necks of your lot of cases just enough to hold your bullets correctly. That allows you to avoid pulling the case over an expander (you can drop the expander or use an undersized one to hold the decapping pin). This approach to sizing also works the neck less than standard dies do, so you don't need as frequent annealing to prevent necks starting to splits.

A less expensive 2-step approach is possible. Redding sells body dies, which resize only the case body and Lee makes collet dies that size only the neck over a mandrel so they size the inside diameter of any neck wall thickness correctly. This video compares the Lee die to a Hornady die with an expander, so you can see the effect. The Lee die + body die is usually less expensive than a Redding S die (bushing type). I've not compared that combination to the price of other bushing dies.
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Last edited by Unclenick; August 1, 2013 at 11:58 AM.
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Old August 1, 2013, 11:57 AM   #3
603Country
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There are others on the forum better qualified (Unclenick, for instance) to give you the full detailed answer. The quick easy answer is that if you are a hunter and occasional paper puncher, you don't need bushing dies. If you have a rifle that isn't particularly accurate, you won't see any benefit from bushing dies, other than getting slightly longer case life.
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Old August 2, 2013, 07:29 AM   #4
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I use bushing dies and no question they are more expensive but they offer different style of reloading. They give you the option of controlling neck tension and amount of neck that you want to size all that without using the typical type expander.

I've been reloading 48yrs now and I've yet to put a price on accuracy as to what works and what doesn't and I've been using bushing dies about 30yrs now. I started using them for BR then I come back to my standard dies for my other rifles so just decided to make change over and over the years as I got new rifles I just buy those type dies or have them made.

I look at repeatable groups and the more you control as a reloader I think helps that.
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Old August 2, 2013, 10:53 AM   #5
F. Guffey
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I have gold medal and competition seating dies from RCBS, I do not have the sizing dies offered with the sets. There is something about starting over every time something new is released. I went by and talked with Dillon about their 550B, we just got started when they tried to sell me on the ideal seating on one position and crimping on another was the way to go and that is the reason I needed their dies. I purchased the press, I did not purchased their dies, rational? I was not starting over with another set of dies, they said it was OK to use my dies with their press and there were a lot of reloaders that do that. I will not load on a progressive press without a lock out die and or a powder die. For those that are keeping up, the 550B has four positions meaning there is no room for the lock out die when seating and crimping with separate dies.

The 30/06 seating die body is used for the 308 W, by changing the bullet guide the same die body can load 8mm06, the price of the 30/06 seating die price with the addition of an extended shell holder and bullet guide made the combination affordable.

Precision when seating bullets has to do with the alignment of the bullet with the neck of the case. I have a Weatherby die set that does that with 257, I have a Universal 7MM Lyman that works for all 7MM, I do not have a lot of Hornady die sets , I do believe the Hornady seating die aligns the case with the bullet before the ram gets high enough to tilt the bullet as with other designs.

Then there is the sizer ball being pulled through the neck etc., and causing it, the neck, to be pulled out or off to one side and on and on etc. And I ask, has anyone ever ‘actually’ measured before and again after? My opinion, the story is repeated over and over etc., because no one has put any thought into what is going on when the sizer ball is pulled out of the neck.

Neck tension or interference fit. I am the fan of bullet hold, I do not believe a case maintains the same bullet hold through 5+ firings, neck tension, snap back, jump back or spring back or memory etc., etc.. Too much for a reloader to keep up with?

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