Got a H&K P7 PSP on the way

[drobs]

LOL
Sounds like you need about 4 or more...

Was reading an article the other day about the P7. Author attended a high round count class back in the 1980's or 90's where another shooter brought 4 P7's with him to rotate. All were scorching hot at various points during the class.

They do shoot good though with such a low bore axis.

[ttarp]

Most folks who do not like the P7 also don't own one.

Most folks who try the P7 and don't care for it also get rid of them, apart from the obvious exceptions in this thread, I find this statement to be more true than not.

[Que]

BTW, here is a quote from HK World at HKPro as to the numbers or true PSP produced:

The PSP was produced from May of 1976 through 1978. Only 239 total models were manufactured. The serial numbers for the PSP go from 001-239, then 240-250 are for the PSP/P7, and after 251 starts the P7 series.

I wonder what one would go for.

[James K]

"Most folks who do not like the P7 also don't own one."

In fairness, very few people have had a chance to even hold a P7. They are not a common gun, and were produced for a relatively short time. Most went to the police market and were destroyed when replaced.

Jim

[745SW]

Most I know are familiar with the P7 and have no real desire to own. The only person I know that might have one is what I term a collector, limited, unique, history and unobtainable are the desired elements.

[9x18_Walther]

The only person I know that might have one is what I term a collector, limited, unique, history and unobtainable are the desired elements.

True. If it was made by anyone besides HK. I'd probably not be such a big fan.

[745SW]

"In fairness, very few people have had a chance to even hold a P7."

Back in the 80's my somewhat local store had the P7 and other uncommon guns. I didn't have the desire to hold one. Pricing was about the same as a Rolex watch at the time and I could have bought if I had the drive. Bought and still have my Zeiss binocs from the same dealer that cost $1K.

Today I do not regret not having the P7 or Rolex. Just not well suited to a bread/butter type like myself.

Looking/remembering back, publications/magazines were basically sales hype, virtually nothing negative. I sop pose at the time it really didn't matter because folks were almost eager to have another separate them from the green backs.

[Tom Servo]

Most went to the police market and were destroyed when replaced.

In the states, I'm only aware of NJSP adopting them. Though I can't source it, they dumped the gun based on concerns about the design being "unsafe."

[9x18_Walther]

In the states, I'm only aware of NJSP adopting them. Though I can't source it, they dumped the gun based on concerns about the design being "unsafe."

I heard at one point they switched to the S&W 99 and had tons of problems with extraction. S&W/Walther issued a new extractor for all of their pistols. A lot of the officers were asking for their P7s back (these were the P7M13 IIRC).

The U. S. Park Police and the Navajo Police also used the P7.

The "unsafe" design of the P7 according to the NJSP I believe was an issue with the holster not the gun.

[PSP]

In the states, I'm only aware of NJSP adopting them. Though I can't source it, they dumped the gun based on concerns about the design being "unsafe."

That simply is not true. Scores of law enforcement agencies used the HK. Why the New Jersey SP are usually the focus is a mystery to me. The fact is the NJSP used the HK M13 for over 18 years... a long run for an agency issued sidearm. The HK's biggest obstacle to greater use among LE agencies is the relatively high cost.

[Heretic]

I own a P7 which was built in 1986. I have found it to be a delight to shoot but I will not carry it as a daily carry. The manual of arms is vastly different from the Browning type which I have used for over forty years. Muscle memory.

As far as accuracy goes, with the exception of a dedicated target pistol, the
P7 is the most accurate pistol I own. In fact, on one range outing the range instructor asked to try it. After three rounds at 25 yards he stopped to inspect the target to find that all three shots made a single hole. He then proceeded to use the final five rounds in the magazine to slightly enlarge the hole. He has since tried to buy it several times. [He is a better shot than I am.]

As far as those who deride this pistol, I must conclude that there are three possibilities: 1) They have no personal experience but just echo what they have read on the net. 2) The gun is just too different from what they have used. 3) It is just ‘sour grapes’ since they cannot get one.

[9x18_Walther]

As someone else pointed out, the P7 was never an affordable pistol. Its price was why its never widely adopted.

One could argue that reduction in manufacturing costs and quality explains why the Walther CCP has a piston system.

http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdn...rt-681x900.jpg

[WVsig]

As far as those who deride this pistol, I must conclude that there are three possibilities: 1) They have no personal experience but just echo what they have read on the net. 2) The gun is just too different from what they have used. 3) It is just ‘sour grapes’ since they cannot get one.

Just another example of blind ignorance. Many people in this thread who do not care for them own one, have shot them enough to know they don't want one and have the means to own one if they wanted to. Why is it that when people have a man crush on a pistol they cannot understand or comprehend that others do not share that crush? What makes it even more absurd is people's need to justify their crush by disparaging those who do not share it. Seems pointless to me.

To the OP enjoy the new pistol. If you are happy we are happy for you. If it turns out you don't like it I am sure someone will take it off your hands.

[mavracer]

Many people in this thread who do not care for them own one, have shot them enough to know they don't want one and have the means to own one if they wanted to.

I believe those people would ultimately fall in the second group.
"The gun is just too different from what they have used."

[9x18_Walther]

"The gun is just too different from what they have used."

Let someone shoot it at the range and watch the confusion ensue.

My favorite story is hearing someone show someone else the ability to press the trigger down and then depressing the front cocker.

[WVsig]

I believe those people would ultimately fall in the second group.
"The gun is just too different from what they have used."

I don't agree. Its difference is not what turns me off to it it. For me the fact you cannot put more than 3 to 4 mags without the gun getting too hot to shoot is a problem. I bugs me everytime I take it to the range that I cannot put it to serious work. I like to shoot a 100 to 200 rounds a session with a gun with the P7 it takes forever to accomplish that or I burn myself. I guess I could use gloves but I never have.

The trigger is nice and after a few rounds I have no issues with the squeeze cocker. It is an accurate gun by design. People often talk about subjective accuracy, a particular gun in their hand, but with the P7 it is an extremely mechanically accurate gun. There is no disputing that.

The major deal killer for me was on the belt it was not balanced. Due to the cocking mechanism the gun is butt heavy even in a quality rig like a Milt Sparks VMII it moved on me. I don't shoot it much not because it is too different it is that I simply don't like its ergonomics or its overall setup.

Mine is one of the German LEO trade ins that hit the states a few years back. I keep mine because it is a interesting gun not because I like it. This is an old pic of mine. It was a grade A gun which I got for a very good price even at that time.

[mavracer]

For me the fact you cannot put more than 3 to 4 mags without the gun getting too hot to shoot is a problem.

Unlike the other guns you've used.

The major deal killer for me was on the belt it was not balanced.

Unlike the other guns you've used.

Due to the cocking mechanism the gun is butt heavy even in a quality rig like a Milt Sparks VMII it moved on me.

Unlike the other guns you've used.

I don't shoot it much not because it is too different it is that I simply don't like its ergonomics or its overall setup.

???? It's not cause it's different, it's because the ergonomics and overall set up aren't like the guns that I do like IE different??????
Hey nobody has to like it, but come on you don't like what's different from what you're used to.

[745SW]

While the HK P7 is not a bad looking pistol, the first and most immediate thought that comes to mind when just looking is butt heavy.

[WVsig]

mavracer I will accept the term "different" is it denotes a flaw or undesirable trait. The differences in the P7 vs other guns are considered by many to be flaws.

Heretic does not acknowledge that IMHO. He is pushing "fault" on the user not the gun itself. He is acting like people cannot deal with a different manual of arms and therefore dismiss it without justification. It is a "fanboy" plea, which there is nothing really wrong with but it is what it is. IMHO there are so many "differences"="flaws" in the P7 which make not for everyone.

[mavracer]

WVsig,
In rereading his wording I see where you're coming from and I do see the shortcomings of the design. The grip is large for the capacity, the heat is an issue for extended training. But for me it's a very natural MOA and shoots good enough to put up with it's shortcomings.

[WVsig]

WVsig,
In rereading his wording I see where you're coming from and I do see the shortcomings of the design. The grip is large for the capacity, the heat is an issue for extended training. But for me it's a very natural MOA and shoots good enough to put up with it's shortcomings.

I think many people agree with you. I tired but it was a no go but I still keep the pistol anyway.

[spacecoast]

Wow, I never thought my initial question would generate so much "enthusiasm" both pro and con. I was going to hold off a while shooting this gun (until my son gets home from Afghanistan) but I may just have to get out there sooner. It should be in my hands early next week.

However, I'm still recovering from shoulder surgery so I'm probably at least a month out from a proper strong hand or two-hand grip.

[9x18_Walther]

Just in case nobody mentioned it. Stick to 124 grain (preferred) or 115 grain 9mm. +P is okay if you must. All FMJ or JHP.

Some P7s do not like 147 grain. Because its blowback design, 147 grain increases the slide velocity and can cause some malfunctions.

[James K]

"Because its blowback design..."

But the P7 is not a straight blowback, it is what is called a gas retarded blowback. A straight blowback is held closed until the pressure drops only by the mass (weight) of the slide. The problem with a straight blowback with high pressure loads is that the gun opens too soon and the case bulges or bursts.

There are a couple of ways to prevent that and still use the supposed simplicity of the blowback. One is a heavy slide, like the High Point pistols, which are reliable, but heavy and clunky.

The other is to design some kind of retarding mechanism which, in the P7 is a piston arrangement. Gas is tapped off the barrel right ahead of the chamber, before the cartridge case can move back enough to expose its thin forward wall. That gas acts on the piston to slow down the slide. Unlike, say, an M1 rifle, the gas does not operate the gun, it really stops it from operating, or at least from operating too quickly.

Given the requirements set forth, it is an ingenious system. It is more complex than a Browning system locked breech, but the fault lies with the requirement for a fixed barrel, not in the design chosen to meet that requirement.

Jim

[9x18_Walther]

But the P7 is not a straight blowback, it is what is called a gas retarded blowback. A straight blowback is held closed until the pressure drops only by the mass (weight) of the slide. The problem with a straight blowback with high pressure loads is that the gun opens too soon and the case bulges or bursts.

Thanks for explaining that. I didn't want to go into details.