Best Stock for Home Defense Shotgun

[rantingredneck]

5-3/16" according to model, but was actually 4-3/4" by measure!

Not exactly sure when, but somewhere along the way Mossberg went from the shorter butt stock height to 5 3/16". I suspect this modification was to abate felt recoil by spreading it out over a greater surface area on the shoulder, but I haven't read or heard confirmation of that anywhere.

Both of my Mossbergs are older guns with the shorter buttstock heights. I have a limbsaver on one. It was the longer size and I had to grind it to fit. I'm gonna pick up another grind to fit one for my other Mossberg soon (before deer season at least).

[hogdogs]

The light loads do save some money but it is more getting a feel for the handling of the gun first before heavy hitting loads give you bad habits like predicting recoil that WILL result in flinch in a newer shooter.

The reason for having someone else load the mag with a mix of rounds is to get you used to shooting what ever is in the pipe with the same confidence and authority. Oh, it is fun as you learn and do flinch but if ya'll intentionally work to avoid it, than when the shot does count you won't "choke" and miss due to flinch only. The reason for short loading the tube with a heavy load is to really point out the flinch... Seeing a grown man jerk, jolt, flinch and squint when the hammer goes CLICK is just fun as heck too...
Brent

[capt. jas.]

The best home defense stock in my opinion is a standard styled stock that has been built up or down to actually fit the primary shooter to the point his eye is the rear sight and the gun puts it's impression downrange where the shooter is looking when mounted into the gun. This must go along with mounting practice to make it so just like any other training, practicing with other non-standard shooting styles as well.

[philster]

Hogdogs - thanks for the rationale on varying the loads for practice, I'd never heard of that before and now I understand.

Rantingredneck - I downloaded/printed the master template list from Limbsaver, removed the factory recoil pad and matched the bare butt stock up, came out to their part number 10105/10202 (one is probably the speed mount version), with a dimension of 4.70"x1.6", approx. 4-23/32"x1-5/6". It might save you some grinding.

[philster]

Hogdogs,

There's a few different varieties of Flitz (FLITZ Metal Plastic Fiberglass Paste Polish, International Flitz Metal Polish, or maybe GUN METAL PASTE) - which should I use, and where do you get this stuff other than eBay? Walmart?

Cool video, too.

[philster]

Slightly off the posted topic, but here's a great link on the mossy 500 safety.

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=149360

[hogdogs]

https://www.flitz.com/p-16-flitz-polish-paste.aspx
I think this is the stuff... I use elbow grease. But the flitz appears to be the finest grit in a polish.
Brent

[philster]

That's the metal, plastic and fiberglass stuff. I think I've found enough info to be able to disassemble the safety - without tearing down the rest of the gun, and without losing the spring and bearing. Looking at the detent has given me an idea. It appears that the spring is so stiff and presses the bearing so hard against the holes in the detent that it's hard to unseat the bearing and get the safety slide moving.

If I screw up one side or end, it appears that I can flip the detent to the other. I'm going to take my dremel and grind away two VERY small/shallow V-shaped ramps from the edge of the two holes that the bearing settles in for safe and fire positions, facing each other kinda like this (screw mounting hole in center, pretend the outline):

( o>-<o - O - o - o)

This ought to make it a little easier to start the safety slide moving, without decreasing the tension on the spring, making the screw looser, or trying to wear down the detent or channel that the slide sits in. Should be quicker and cheaper, too.

[hogdogs]

You will need to field strip it I think as the piece inside may drop... But field strip is easy too... I would want to polish between the receiver and the inner piece as much or more as outer piece... If you get the detent action smoothed let me know how as I have never taken the screw out. Also use loc-tite to reassemble or you may yet lose the parts...
Brent

[philster]

What I've read is "Make sure the safety is engaged, close the action, and wrap a zip tie around the trigger. You dont have to use a zip tie, but constant firm pressure on the trigger is required", then continue with disassembly/reassembly of the outside safety parts, being careful not to lose the spring or bearing. It looks like either a small screwdriver sharpened at the tip and press firmly into the existing slot or cutting a new tiny 90 degree slot in the head of the @#$! screw will allow you to remove it without too much difficulty.

I think that the trigger pressure is what keeps the lower safety mechanism from dropping into the back of the receiver, and the author stated "Its just a pain to hold the piece that goes on the inside of the receiver while putting the safety in on the top, and its easy to lose that ball bearing while holding the bottom and working on the top". Somebody else tried removing the safety assembly with the action fully rearward to keep it from dropping.

I'll let you know how it goes.

[hogdogs]

Gotcha... kinda like air pressure in a cylinder to swap valve springs on a motor I guess... But the field strip and working inside is easy enuff too Good luck either way and lemme know how it turns out...
Brent

[philster]

OMG - it was so easy and anti-climactic that I was almost disappointed! I simply put the safety on, moved the action all the way to the rear, and took out the screw. Didn't sharpen a screwdriver or cut a slot, just used a small tweaker type and didn't even have to press that hard to get the screw started backing out.

At that point I did kneel on the carpet, turn the gun upside down and hold it within 6 inches of the floor, pressed the safety slide against the receiver with one thumb, and used the tweaker to finish removing the screw. No flying parts, the spring didn't even come out. Boy, the metal detent plate is thin. I'll work with the dremel tomorrow. So, total painless removal in less than 1 minute, no field stripping required, safety block still firmly in place.

[gordo_gun_guy]

I'll work with the dremel tomorrow.

Be careful making the safety too loose: it will sometimes go back on-safe under recoil, usually at the worst possible moment! My 500 had this issue when I bought it used....

+1 on standard stock, but not in wood. Practicing with buck and slugs, I shot the original wood stock loose to the extent the wood interfacing the receiver was so battered tightening the stock bolt could not fix it. Replaced it with plastic standard stock and haven't had any issues.

Pistol grip stocks also limit rifle-fighting techniques (for when you run out of ammo or distance): can't execute a butt stroke or overhead smash, and you may break your wrist performing the muzzle thump....

[rantingredneck]

Rantingredneck - I downloaded/printed the master template list from Limbsaver, removed the factory recoil pad and matched the bare butt stock up, came out to their part number 10105/10202 (one is probably the speed mount version), with a dimension of 4.70"x1.6", approx. 4-23/32"x1-5/6". It might save you some grinding.

philster,

Thanks for this info. Will put it to use soon.

RR

[philster]

Sometimes I get lucky. My safety detent modification worked flawlessly. There were opportunities for disaster, but I managed to avoid them. I had one of those real thin stone dremel grinding/cutting disks, but the diameter was too big to get down into the holes in the detent to bevel an edge - it would have ground both sides of the small diameter hole. I had one other stone bit that I just hadn't thrown away yet, a small one that was worn almost down to the bit shaft. Using this one, I carefully beveled just the facing edges of both the SAFE and FIRE position holes. I didn't elongate them or cut all the way through to the backside of the detent, just scooped out a VERY small amount of metal in a cone shape on the side that the bearing presses against, in the direction of the bearing's travel to take down the edge of the hole and make more of a ramp for the bearing. Re-assembled w/no probs, and it works GREAT! Nice and smooth, but still with plenty of resistance and no slop. This entire procedure start to finish couldn't have taken me more than 10 minutes total. I hope that maybe this helps somebody else.

[philster]

One other little thing (and I debated on doing this), I took a pair of gas pliers and simply fully compressed the spring and held it for a few seconds, maybe 3-4 times before re-assembly. I also put a drop of gun oil on the detent, and a drop of loctite on the safety screw when I put it back together.

[philster]

OK, the LAST little thing. Here's a pic of the detent mod, and note that on the underside of the safety slide (facing the detent plate) there's a couple of small countersunk holes that line up with the holes in the detent, allowing the bearing to seat in both the detent and the plastic slide. Made sure when you re-assemble that the slide holes line up with the business end of the detent that you modify so that the bearing will rest in them - NOT flipped around toward the barrel.

[edrice]

Thanks for going through this exercise. I have a 500 and 590 and the 590 has a very stiff safety and it looks like I'll have to do this.

You're a pathfinder!

Ed