Are Kimbers More Reliable Now?

[rodfac]

Multiple failure to feed situations, several failure to extract resulting in a smoke stack jam. Guns were in good clean shape during all of this. Ammunition was factory Federal 230 HST? HP and some 230 FMJ Winchester White box. Mag's were switched with known good mags already in my possession. Rod

[Banger357]

I.... do not like Kimbers. As far as 1911s go, I have seen more dissatisfied customers who purchased Kimber than any other brand, including the low end ones like Citadel and Taurus. The 500 round break-in period they recommend is conservative from what I've seen. The majority of the issues purchasers complain about do work themselves out- but 1000-1500 rounds is not unusual before it becomes a reliable gun. I don't get what justifies a Kimber's price tag (well okay, they're very very pretty)... I've had die hard Kimber fans tell me "Oh yeah, once you break it in and fix the angle on the feed ramp and throw a better magazine in there, it works like a dream!" But personally, I'd rather buy a Springfield for $400 less and take it out of the box and have it be awesome. If I were to recommend anything to someone looking for a Kimber, it would be to get a used one. The majority of issues will probably already be worked out for you and the shiney-tax won't be quite as mind-boggling.

[HKFan9]

Yea, I mean I always see stories online that reflect Rods ordeal and I believe him it's true, my experience with Kimber has been great. After personally owning about 8 different examples of them ranging from the basic custom II to the raptor, and super carry ect, all have been stellar oit of the box. I have also sold 1000s of Kimbers to customers with a pretty average return rate, about on par with Colt, Sig, Springfield.

Everyone makes a lemon, and I always hear horror stories about Kimber, but having sold 1000's of em, owning quite a few, and getting invited to go shoot with their reps once a year, my experience has been good. I also own two of their rifles that have been stellar. I will say their price tag can be rather drastic at times, but one thing their marketing and sales reps will tell you and it's true... Kimbers move based on name alone, people come in and ask to se what Kimbers we have, so people can bash their glossy ads, but I say kudos for them.

[JJNA]

One more question about Kimbers. All companies make lemons (at various rates) and most seem to stand behind their warranties. Ruger has a lifetime service policy that is functionally equivalent to Sig's and Springfield's lifetime warranties.

Why is it that Kimber has only a 1-year warranty, especially when it often asks the consumers to shoot 500 rounds before sending it?

That just seems suspiciously short.

[rodfac]

HK...you've got a much larger sample base than the 4 individual guns I've seen here on our farm, and as I pointed out, the guys that hauled them out here for a work out were undoubtedly the unfortunate ones who got the lemons.

And I'll also say that any large manufacturing operation, doing business in today's competitive world wide market had better account for every penny of expense in their products. That said, it behooves any gun maker to stand by his product, answer questions via any communications medium and return, replace or fix as is necessary.

For a company who advertises "carry" guns to require an extended break in period is beyond my understanding. How in heck am I ever going to trust a pistol that took several hundred rounds to feed and fire correctly. Just me, but it had better work right out of the box, as advertised, and I'll expect the trigger to smooth up after a box or two...but it had better feed and fire on day one.

JHMO, Rod

[HKFan9]

One more question about Kimbers. All companies make lemons (at various rates) and most seem to stand behind their warranties. Ruger has a lifetime service policy that is functionally equivalent to Sig's and Springfield's lifetime warranties.

Ruger does not have a life time warranty.... they have NO WRITTEN WARRANTY. Most times 95% of the time they will take care of issues they deem to be their fault. However I have had them send back numerous guns they deemed operator or ammunition error and would not repair them, or they would repair them at cost to the consumer.

On the flip side of that, I have seen Kimber and other companies repair guns for free that were outside their warranty scope.

People assume lifetime warranty means everything is covered no matter what and no matter when, but really it is more of a marketing ploy. Yes some companies are better than others, however I have seen S&W, Ruger, Springfield all charge customers for repairs. S&W's life time warranty is also subject to when they feel like honoring it until. Everyyear or so they send out a list of models they are no longer servicing because they are getting rid of the tooling, the popular model 66 recently being one of them if I remember correctly.

as for the 500 round break it.... it's pretty SOP for most companies to tell consumers that. S&W does it, Sig does it, Springfield does it, Ruger does it, Kahr even put it in their manual. I have even had Glock say it about their most recent models.

Personally and I am not trying to sound smug... but I don't see the cost issue running 500 rounds through a handgun... .338 lapua a different story. I buy guns to shoot them... 500 rounds can sometimes be one range session, specially if it was a gun I just purchased. My father always told me... don't buy the Ferrari unless you can afford the gas.. or the insurance for that matter. You're going to want to shoot it anyways.. so 500 rounds to me isn't a big deal, even if it is mis-feeding.. just means more practice at clearing malfunctions. You either bought it to shoot, or bought it to be a safe queen... if its the later.. than it doesn't matter if it jams or not lol.

[Rogervzv]

Ruger does not have a life time warranty.... they have NO WRITTEN WARRANTY. Most times 95% of the time they will take care of issues they deem to be their fault. However I have had them send back numerous guns they deemed operator or ammunition error and would not repair them, or they would repair them at cost to the consume

Ruger's customer service is 'way better than any warranty. They absolutely do not care if you are the original owner or the tenth owner. I have to believe that examples where Ruger insisted on charging the user represented some pretty serious poor maintenance or use of the gun. For example, I bought a Mark I pistol last year, heavily used, etc. Took it to the range and had problems. I sent it into Ruger, and at no charge they replaced a whole bunch of the innards of the gun, returned it to me a week later at no charge. Can't beat that. God only knows how many people had owned that old pistol before I did.

[Banger357]

I agree with Roger, that has been my experience with Ruger as well.

[HKFan9]

Rodger I never said their CS was bad... but I was simply correcting a common error in the fact Ruger is not a life time warranty.. they have no written warranty. They will take anything in for a "warranty inspection" and they deem either they will repair it or not.

Most times they will repair it... but I do this for a living, and I have dealt with them numerous times where they will charge the customer, or tell them to take up the repair costs with an ammunition manufacturer.

If you take apart your mark series and cant get it back together (common issue with people new to the design) and send it to Ruger... they will put it back together the right way for you and ship it back.. but they also include a letter saying this was done at a courtesy and if it happens another time they will charge labor.

I have seen both Ruger and S&W Charge customers labor for cleaning. The smith was an older J frame sent in with what the customer thought was a timing issue, turns out it just wasn't properly cared for, S&W wouldn't return ship it until the customer sent payment for a $60 cleaning and test fire fee. Ruger LCR was sent back because the customer claimed the barrel was eroding and he only fired about 100 rounds through it. Ruger claimed the revolver was excessivily shot and was not damaged just dirty, and charged the customer $50 in service fees and returned it with a letter telling the customer to learn proper firearms cleaning methods.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by banger357

. . . .more dissatisfied customers who purchased Kimber than any other brand, including the low end ones like Citadel and Taurus.

. . . .500 round break-in period they recommend is conservative. . . .
majority of the issues purchasers complain about do work themselves out. . .

. . . 1000-1500 rounds is not unusual before it becomes a reliable gun. . . .

I don't get what justifies a Kimber's price tag (well okay, they're very very pretty)... I've had die hard Kimber fans tell me "Oh yeah, once you break it in and fix the angle on the feed ramp and throw a better magazine in there, it works like a dream!"

Let's look at this:

Kimbers average sales price is like $1000 + tax and +break in ammo

Break in - 500rnds - $225
1000 rnds - $450
1500 rnds - $675

Hmm for $1500, you can have a far superior DW Valor SS

This math is why I would NEVER waste my money on a Kimber. Sure, there are $800 or $900 Kimbers and their are $1800 Kimbers. . . .They are all the same gun, different finish/metalwork. All look fancy, I guess.

[HKFan9]

Let's look at this:

Kimbers average sales price is like $1000 + tax and +break in ammo

Break in - 500rnds - $225
1000 rnds - $450
1500 rnds - $675

Hmm for $1500, you can have a far superior DW Valor SS

This math is why I would NEVER waste my money on a Kimber. Sure, there are $800 or $900 Kimbers and their are $1800 Kimbers. . . .They are all the same gun, different finish/metalwork. All look fancy, I guess.

I love DW firearms, specially the Valor and the V-bob.... but when shooting with the CZ reps a year ago I had jams on 2 out of 3 of their valors there that day.. so it isn't just Kimber

Shooting with the Kimber reps, only gun we jammed was the Solo, but we knew it was going to happen because we were trying to run 115gr Remington UMC through it. The Kimbers that day were notably more filthy.

Shooting with the Ruger reps... the SR1911's ran fine.. we broke two SR45's mag releases.

Shooting with Remington / Para... and having owned a Para in the past... yea I will save my money.

Shooting with SA, only gun had had some issues with people was the XDS .45 but I would suspect it was limp wristing.

ect ect ect.

The issue is people get 1 or 2 bad tastes from a company.. or 1 really good one.. and then paste it all over the internet. I deal with a few hundred guns a day, good, bad, ugly, kaboomed, dropped, you name it.

I am NOT saying my word is the only word.. but larger sample sizes or stuff never hurt. I can firmly say in my neck of the woods Kimber as about an equal failure rate as SA, Sig, HK, Colt, ect. Now I work for a dealer so maybe they are nicer when I deal with their CS, but that also brings me to another point. A repair issue on a firearm should first be taken up with the shop who sold it to you. If its a brand new gun with issues, you should let them handle the warranty work / shipping it back, if that shop is unwilling to help you with a gun they just sold you, then i wouldn't shop there.

[JJNA]

Ruger does not have a life time warranty.... they have NO WRITTEN WARRANTY.

Which is why I wrote, to repeat:

Ruger has a lifetime service policy that is functionally equivalent to Sig's and Springfield's lifetime warranties.

I understand, HKFan9, you are basically a one-man Kimber apologist here, but it would be helpful if you actually read what I wrote instead of whatever you wished.

I do not have your experience, but I had a bad experience with Kimber and mostly good ones with Kahr, Ruger, Sig, and Springfield, a pattern that seems to be consistent with many opinions on the internet if not with yours.

[Co Th G]

MIMbers are still junk.

[dakota1911]

I have always thought Kimbers were overpriced for what you got and why shouldn't they be? Kimber has had nice glossy full color adds in almost every gun mag out there for years. Usually multiple adds and often the back cover. This is not that bad. I was up to 6 Kimbers at one time and am now down to one. They were not that bad. They were just not that good. The hype works for you also. I have never lost money on a Kimber I kept a few years and then sold. Not as good as Colt, but not horrible. My last Kimber is a Grand Raptor II I bought in 2005 for a little over $1.2K In 2006 I bought a Colt SCG for $1.4K These two pistols are not on the same planet. The SCG will give me 3 inch groups from a Ransom Rest at 50 yards. The Kimber shoots almost as good as a 1988 Colt Gold Cup I bought used for $650 around 2007. I played with the Kimber to the tune of about 2K rounds. Do not shoot it that much any more, but it is pretty.

The reason I am keeping the Grand Raptor is that it is very pretty and it is the only example of a Kimber external extractor in my shooty collection. Actually did not have problems with the external extractor. Would I buy another Kimber? You bet but it would have to be a very early one, thus not a II and in very nice shape.

[JJNA]

I did recently purchase a Kimber Micro Carry 380. It remains to be seen how that turns out.

[AustinTX]

Kimber does indeed make some pretty ads. I'll give them that.

Probably why two-thirds of the customers at my LGS seem to think that Kimber represents the pinnacle of the 1911 world. I have no interest in owning one. There are substantially better values at every price point in Kimber's lineup.

[Rinspeed]

Kimber has had nice glossy full color adds in almost every gun mag out there for years.

I have always laughed at goofy comments like this that have been regurgitated across the forums for the last ten years. I mean can't you come up with something you didn't read on some other forum or post.

[HKFan9]

Which is why I wrote, to repeat:

Ruger has a lifetime service policy that is functionally equivalent to Sig's and Springfield's lifetime warranties.

I understand, HKFan9, you are basically a one-man Kimber apologist here, but it would be helpful if you actually read what I wrote instead of whatever you wished.

I do not have your experience, but I had a bad experience with Kimber and mostly good ones with Kahr, Ruger, Sig, and Springfield, a pattern that seems to be consistent with many opinions on the internet if not with yours.

I was stating they have no lifetime anything. Ruger can at any time... refuse to see a gun. They have no written warranty as does Browning. Like I said, Ruger has GREAT customer service, however it is a very big misconception they have lifetime anything.

I am not a one man Kimber aologist, I can care less if a group of random strangers on the internet like them or not. Just simply sharing my experiences with them and other brands. I do not even work on commission.

I am not trying to negate your negative experience with Kimber, it happens, as does it with any brand.. it is my job to deal with those. Just simply saying that my experience in doing so doesn't match all the nay say you hear from people on the internet. I owned 7-8 Kimbers, mostly purchased used, or through their pro-staff discount, I am now down to one, a Desert Warrior, because it matches my Kimber 8400 Advanced Tactical. They all proved good guns, but I bought sold and traded most away.

Do I think Kimber is the best... no... but for the right prices, I would not hesitate to own one. I think DW is better even with my bad experience on the range with them, but they are often hard to find, and more expensive (but well worth it.) I can say I have personally had more issues with Colt 1911's and Springfield 1911's than I have Kimbers.... Do I think either is a bad company or gun? NO, just the luck of the draw. All were straighted out either by the company, or one of the gun smiths I work for.

As for ads... I don't even see why this is a point? Name a company who DOESN'T have full page ads... better yet name a gun that has gotten a bad review in a gun rag . It seems people just need something to cry about these days.

[Sulaco2]

Kimber has been 50% for me. I have had one of the 12 round 1911 SA Kimber pistols they imported 20 years ago and it has been flawless so far, although finding mags for it now is a real problem. I also had a LDA commander sized .45 that was a nightmare so bad I finally sold it for parts. I keep hearing bad and good on them, less bad now but they seem to go in QC cycles...

[rc]

My budy bought the stainles 45 with fixed sights from Bud's and I've gotten a 9mm Target and a 38 super pro carry. We stratch our heads and wonder what people complain about so much because our three are fine.

[pat701]

Ten years ago it was 50/50 if you had a reliable pistol from Kimber. For that reason i wouldn't consider buying a Kimber JMHO.

[AustinTX]

Ten years ago it was 50/50 if you had a reliable pistol from Kimber.

Maybe they've improved some since Cohen drove his clown car over to Sig.

There are still a number of better buys, though.

[JJNA]

There are still a number of better buys, though.

Recommendations?

[Mike_Fontenot]

Originally Posted by AustinTx

There are still a number of better buys [than Kimber], though.

Not for someone (like me) who wants a grip-controlled firing-pin-safety.

[Rinspeed]

Ten years ago it was 50/50 if you had a reliable pistol from Kimber. For that reason i wouldn't consider buying a Kimber JMHO.

How would come up with such a guess. Even ten years ago they were making over 60K pistols a year. If half of them had issues they would be out of business today.