Deer Baiting - Page 3

sc928porsche · May 21, 2013, 03:29 AM

I choose the fair chase. No bait, no calls, no made blinds, no tree stands, etc. I will take advantage of the lay of the land. Creeks, gullies, rock outcroppings, and such. I feel that I have enough advantage. I carry a rifle. As long as it is legal, hunt the way you wish and I will hunt mine.

Saltydog235 · May 21, 2013, 07:31 AM

Hunting deer over a corn feeder is no more cheating than hunting them over a grove of oak trees dropping mast or a agricultural feild. Its a matter of how and where you have to hunt. Those of you in open country that can implement spot and stalk methods essentially set up ambushes on the prey. You cannot do that in my neck of the woods, you sit and wait over a food service area be it natural or from a bag.

I laugh at the people who don't consider it fair chase. Those deer sit back in the woods 200yds off in cover and can spot most hunters, well the bucks that value their hides. It takes more work than some realize to do. Then again, some people get the notion that you can shoot 20-30 a night, back the truck up and stack them like cord-wood.

mxsailor803 · May 21, 2013, 07:39 AM

I'm so glad I'm from SC. We have one of the longest seasons I've ever heard of (Aug15 to Jan1). The only sub-season we have is when its legal to harvest does. None of the whole bow, muzzle loader, pistol, or rifle seasons. When the season comes in, its in and open by whatever means you want. Baiting is legal. Dog drives are still very traditional and ran every Saturday. We can even get tags to shoot deer at night out of season if you apply for them lol. Man I'm ready to go huntin!!!

JerryM · May 21, 2013, 10:14 AM

If hunting is to be a sport there must be a contest of skills of the hunter vs the game in his habitat, and following his natural instincts.
Hunting over bait or a field destroys those elements.

If you sit in a blind over bait, whether a food dispenser or a field, then the sport hunting element is gone, and it is just a matter of shooting.
Whatever it is it is not hunting or sporting. There is no contest or skill involved. It is more like shooting cows in the pasture.

Jerry

Keg · May 21, 2013, 11:02 AM

Quote:

If hunting is to be a sport there must be a contest of skills of the hunter vs the game in his habitat, and following his natural instincts.
Hunting over bait or a field destroys those elements.

If you sit in a blind over bait, whether a food dispenser or a field, then the sport hunting element is gone, and it is just a matter of shooting.
Whatever it is it is not hunting or sporting. There is no contest or skill involved. It is more like shooting cows in the pasture.

Jerry

Jerry..I hear U saying what is not hunting.....But..please explain what hunting is to U?

arch308 · May 21, 2013, 12:01 PM

Hunting over food is no different than hunting over a watering hole or a known travel route. Surely you don't hunt where you know there are no deer. I really can't see hunting as a sport anyway. A way of life or a past time, yes. But not really a sporting competition between two equal competitors. JMHO
If hunting over a feeder were really cheating my wall would be covered with trophys. It isn't. I have a few that I am proud of and not one was shot over the feeder. The biguns are smarter than that around here. I don't shoot anything but the occasional hog over my feeder. Does I like to take still hunting. I keep my feeder going year round to keep deer in my area. It is a must here because most hunters use them.
If you don't want to hunt over food or it is illegal, then don't. Just don't look down on the hunters that choose to use legal methods.

JerryM · May 21, 2013, 01:16 PM

Hi, Keg.
Hunting means that I learn where the game I want to hunt is found. Then I scout for a long as time permits. I learn the habits of the game, and what type of trophies or individuals are in the area.
Then I prepare my equipment and get into shape so that I can climb or walk to the area, and hunt for some period of time. Also, I know I am going to have to field dress the game and get it to my camp or vehicle. That places limitations on distance and size of game hunted.

Now many drive an ATV to a stand or blind, shoot a deer or whatever, and haul it back on the ATV.
While I realize that not all do that, some do. It is not sporting and not hunting.

I don’t intend to spend time arguing the point, but that is my opinion, and if I could only hunt over bait or a planted field out of a barn or fancy blind I would not hunt. What have you accomplished when you shoot an animal?

Regards,
Jerry

Keg · May 21, 2013, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Hunting means that I learn where the game I want to hunt is found. Then I scout for a long as time permits. I learn the habits of the game, and what type of trophies or individuals are in the area.
Then I prepare my equipment and get into shape so that I can climb or walk to the area, and hunt for some period of time. Also, I know I am going to have to field dress the game and get it to my camp or vehicle. That places limitations on distance and size of game hunted.

Jerry..your answer is kinda vague....There is no mention of what type weapon is allowed to be used? Spear..bow..firearm..firearm with scope? How close can your camp be to where U hunt? How close can U drive your auto? U say.."learn the habits of the game"....Just say deer or elk....They like a certain plot of oaks for acorns or a favorite watering hole....If U hunt these areas..is this not any different than a feeder or crops in a field? Also..hunters from the beginning hunted on horseback....But now..we are not allowed to use an atv? Heck..Used to hunters in India rode elephants.... Hunters from ancient times used hounds....Is that OK? It sounds like hunting..to U..is only for the young and physically fit....That leaves a lot of folks out....It does not hurt to be fit..but no-one is exempt from getting older....I could go on and on....

arch308 · May 21, 2013, 03:54 PM

JerryM,
I don't see much difference in your style of hunting except you walk a little to get there. I'm glad you enjoy your style of hunting and wish I was still young enough and had access to the amount of land you seem to. But you shouldn't look down on others because they do it a little differently.
We as hunters shouldn't be bickering amongst ourselves about this type of trivia. We need to stand together against the anti-hunters as a whole. They are getting stronger all the time.

BumbleBug · May 21, 2013, 05:08 PM

JerryM,

Believe me I understand your thinking, & I don't know if you have ever really hunted a feeder from a blind. But it is not a give me! I wish I still hunted South Texas & could invite you for a hunt. I have seen many 150+ class bucks killed, but none killed coming to a feeder. Zero, nada. As a matter of fact, most big bucks are invisible even on night cameras until the rut hits! This is all low fence I'm talking about.

There are some quasi-legal hunting ranches where you literally buy a kill, but this is a small percentage of places to hunt. I also have also visited (not hunted) ranches where the does are bred via straws. Although legal, they are no place for a hunter, but great places to visit & wonder at the monster bucks!

I assure you hunting is not competition & it varies from place to place & as sportsman we all need to stay legal & support each other on the collective term "hunting".

FWIW...

...bug

Saltydog235 · May 22, 2013, 07:33 AM

If you don't think sitting in a stand in 90+ degree heat and 90% humidity in the middle of a swamp is tough, come on out and give it a try, my guess is the mosquitos run you out in less than 30 minutes. After you've stacked up you 15th trophy buck of the afternoon, I'll buy you dinner.

There are different methods of hunting throughout the country and to disparage one based on the style is just plain stupid and biggoted. The fellow that says he stalks, observes and gets to know his game is being the ultimate hypocrite. We do the same in getting to know the game but hunting in open arid country isn't even feasible when you are after a Swamp Donkey, you would fail miserably employing your style here.

Also if you are the type above, do you use a rifle? Compound Bow? Or do you fashion your own Bow/arrows from willow branches, arrowheads from flint, fletching from turkeys, and bindings from sinew taken from the buffalo you killed with rock. Unless you do that, you are being hypocritical.

Man is able to invent and fashion tools. Man is a higher being than critters are, that is what had made him successful over the years. God gave man dominion over all animals, God never stipulated how to harvest them.

Art Eatman · May 22, 2013, 10:56 AM

I figure that getting out of the house and away from city sidewalks and into the boonies is far more important than the trivial issue of how you prefer to turn Bambi into supper.

Mostly, game laws originated from the hunting fraternity. By and large, they set up what we adopt for ourselves as ethics and ethical hunting.

Regardless, terrain, vegetation and weather control the methods for our hunting. To think that there is some sort of "One size fits all" is foolish.

I prefer walking hunting or sneaky-snaking, but I know from experience that in thick-brush country you're fooling yourself to think you can do either. Mesquite, prickly pear and cat-claw acacia will change your attitude in a heartbeat. Cat-claw lets you learn all about the smell of blood: Your own.

Pear thorn? They'll be all festered out by March, usually.

You get down here in these south Georgia forests with head-high underbrush and if you're not in a high stand you'll be eating hamburgers at Maudie's Kum-Bak Cafe. Ya gotta see Bambi before you can shoot him.

Folks generally hunt in whatever method works in the area they hunt in. Always have, always will. Pointless to go whining with this, "He's different, so he's bad!" style. Silly.

Keg · May 22, 2013, 12:36 PM

Excellent post Art! I had to sit back and look my self (re-adjust my thinkin)..after a post on hunting in the NE....

JerryM · May 22, 2013, 03:24 PM

How you hunt is important if you call it hunting and sporting. If you want to get out in the outdoors and do whatever that is fine. However, sport hunting is just that. It requires that the game be stalked/taken in his element, and not fed until he is used to it, and then shoot him.

Saltydog, the thread was about hunting over bait. It has nothing to do with building a blind in the swamps. However, if you are hunting over bait, the number of mosquito bites has nothing to do with sport. I don't think you have really seen bugs until you go into Alaska in the bug season and experience that.

Putting up blinds in the woods beside trails or places where deer naturally feed is not shooting over bait or a field planted for deer to feed.

Anyway, each can do as he will as long as it is legal.

Jerry

Doyle · May 22, 2013, 03:30 PM

Quote:

It requires that the game be stalked/taken in his element

I see you are from New Mexico where you can roam over very large areas looking for deer. That is definitely not the case everywhere. My partner and I have access to only two plots of land to hunt. One is about 130 acres and the other is only 32 acres. The ONLY way to hunt those is to use a feeder. And lest someone think that you are sitting on top of the feeder waiting for the deer to show up, let me tell you that is not how it works. Like I said in an earlier post, our deer are very nocturnal. The feeder only keeps then in the general area. You still have to wait for them to pass through.

JerryM · May 22, 2013, 03:51 PM

Doyle,
Do you mean you cannot stalk what deer are in your area?

Yes, I am in NM, but I grew up in AR. I have some understanding of hunting in thick brush. It isn't easy, but isn't that what sport is about? I have kin in AR, and they do mostly hunt from stands. I do not have any objections to stands. In some places the brush is so thick, as also South TX, that you can't see very far.
But they scout and determine where the deer are using and feeding ant the routes they use during different times of the year. Then they construct stands. That is a lot different from hunting over bait.

Throughout the years I have enjoyed the scouting for game even more than the taking of game. It has given me time alone in the outdoors, and to see various wildlife in their natural habitat without being spooked or driven by other people. I also learned a lot more from scouting than the hunt which was often over too soon.

I assume that you are using a feeder to attract deer to the area in general. As long as you are not sitting over the feeder, but just attempting to lure deer to an area I don't consider that hunting over a feeder.

But hunting is more that shooting, and I am opposed to those who shoot at 1,000 yards and claim they hunt. It takes a lot of skill to hit the mark at that range, but it is still just shooting and not hunting. It does not take much skill to get within 1,000 yards of most game.

Now, who else is angry with me??

Jerry

shortwave · May 22, 2013, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Folks generally hunt in whatever method works in the area they hunt in. Always have, always will. Pointless to go whining with this, "He's different, so he's bad!" style. Silly.

Silly, yes... and sad as well. The emboldened part is usually said/felt by those that have never hunted far from their own backyard.

My legal(key word) hunting tactics may not work in your neck of the woods and yours may not work in mine. Who's tactics are right? Who's wrong? Answer...paying attention to the key word legal, both would be right. May not be the style of hunting you or I are used to but again, where you hunt, my tactics may be useless and visa-versa.

Keg · May 22, 2013, 05:02 PM

Jerry M..why not reply to my last post..to U?

Quote:

Now, who else is angry with me??

Not angry..I just realize yer a lil confused....

arch308 · May 22, 2013, 05:20 PM

JerryM, I still don't see a difference between sitting on deer travel routes and sitting over a food source. Now stalking an animal is different and very difficult. And is very rewarding. Still, you seem to look down on stand hunters. Unless they are related to you.
I applaud your stalking skills. Like I said, when it's time for me to take a doe I preferre still hunting them. It's way too easy over the feeder. I just think you need to come down off your high horse about others ways of hunting. There is a certain mindset necessary for one to sit in one place all day. It doesn't require a lot of physicle effort but man, it ain't easy. And like I stated before, the less I roam around the more deer I see. I save the doe hunts for the last few weekends.

Doyle · May 22, 2013, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Doyle,
Do you mean you cannot stalk what deer are in your area?

Yep. Area is way too small. Plus, you don't stalk deer in FL. It's pretty much impossible to do. Visible distances are only about 50 yds max in the woods and they will hear you comming long before you get to them. Hunting here is much different than it is out west.

shortwave · May 23, 2013, 01:19 AM

I got a big patch of briars/thorns so high and thick with a few locust trees scattered throughout that I'd pay to watch someone still hunt .Long as I could video you coming out bleeding on the other end and was allowed to send the tape to Funniest Home Video's. By the time you got to the other end the game warden would arrest you for thinkin you were a pervert running around the woods naked cut to pieces.

Guess where the 'big boys' hang out? Guess where the same big boys run when we shoot them close to there?

I don't even pull up on a deer close to that area unless he's a monster. Cutting your way in is the best way to retrieve your deer.

Todd1700 · May 23, 2013, 03:55 AM

Baiting is one of the weirdest issues in the hunting world. You have people that will talk about hunting over corn like the people who do it are only a click or two above a child murderer. Then that same person will go sit over a green field and tell you they don't consider that bait. Well what is it then? It's a food source placed in a specific location by man for the purpose of luring a game animal into gun or bow range. How is that not bait? How is that different ethically than a feeder? What's the ethical difference in climbing a tree next to a white oak that's dropping acorns and climbing one that's next to a corn feeder? Where is the difference in skill in those two activities?

Strange that people feel that way about corn feeders yet no one seems to say anything negative about people who go out to Wyoming and sit over the only water hole for 30 miles waiting for an antelope to show up. Or fly up to Canada and shoot a bear over a bait barrel. What's the moral or ethical difference there?

I hear people call it cheating. Then that same person, puts on a scent dampening suit, drives to the woods in a 4x4; gets on a 4 wheeler to get further back in the woods; puts out a scent attractant; climbs a tree with a mechanical climber; scans for game using a 600 dollar pair of 12 power binoculars; then drops an animal that's 400 yards away using a high powered rifle with a 1000 dollars worth of scope sitting on top of it. LOL! Thank God they didn't cheat. They just took that deer on with the tools they were both born with. LOL!

Lets face it. Unless you are running deer down on foot and stabbing them with a spear, you are cheating. It's just a matter of degree. As long as they aren't breaking the law don't look down your nose at someone else just because you have chosen to personally restrict yourself from using a couple of the 200 ways out there that we "Cheat" to kill animals. Odds are you are still using the other 198.

Saltydog235 · May 23, 2013, 07:19 AM

Quote:

How you hunt is important if you call it hunting and sporting. If you want to get out in the outdoors and do whatever that is fine. However, sport hunting is just that. It requires that the game be stalked/taken in his element, and not fed until he is used to it, and then shoot him.

Saltydog, the thread was about hunting over bait. It has nothing to do with building a blind in the swamps. However, if you are hunting over bait, the number of mosquito bites has nothing to do with sport. I don't think you have really seen bugs until you go into Alaska in the bug season and experience that.

Putting up blinds in the woods beside trails or places where deer naturally feed is not shooting over bait or a field planted for deer to feed.

Anyway, each can do as he will as long as it is legal.

You should head east and take a chance at a SE Whitetail. You will change your mind on things after 3 or 4 seasons of failure. You hunt food sources here, be it agricultural, feeder or natural concentrations. You hunt big bucks by staying close to those sources but off the beaten path. The only stalking that works around here and produces comes on the pads of a pack of Walker hounds.

Art Eatman · May 23, 2013, 09:10 AM

Cougars aren't hunters, really, since they tend to sit and wait near water or food until prey shows up.

Wolves are hunters, since they run around in the open and chase down a meal.

Sumpn's wrong with this picture.

buck460XVR · May 23, 2013, 09:43 AM

I have no problem with deer baiting as long as it's legal in the area it is being practiced. That said, I am not a fan of sittin' over a bait pile. That's the difference between legality and ethics. What's legal is delegated supposedly by those who know better than the average hunter and must be followed by all or one can face a severe punishment. Ethics are delegated by ourselves and/or our hunting partners and if not followed the punishment is either a serious ribbing, a loss of a hunting partner/area or just a sick feeling in one's gut. In our hunter safety classes, we tell our students that ethics is doing the right thing when no one else is around. Many times ethics were once determined by law....baiting is a prime example. In Wisconsin, baiting at one time was illegal for deer. Those that used bait were poachers. As years went by and the deer herd exploded and it was determined that baiting made little or no difference in the overall kill, it was legalized. Baiters, while now legal, were still looked upon ethically by older hunters as "cheaters". A few years later when CWD was discovered and it was determined that baiting and feeding could lead to the spread of the disease, baiting was once again outlawed in most of the state. Now those that were legal a few years ago would now again be poachers if they continue the practice. To me, the big problem was those hunters that only learned how to hunt deer over a bait pile and deemed it the only way they could kill a deer. It was a shortcut to learning woodsmanship and the other skills needed to take deer successfully. Time that could have been spent learning trails and patterns were spent haulin' corn. IMHO, not only did their skills suffer, but so did the quality of their hunt. Are there areas in the country where there are no other viable options to baiting? I'm sure there is. Are there folks that could not hunt if they could not sit in a platform overlooking a feeder? Again, I'm sure there are. But, are those folks really experiencing the thrill of a real hunt? Only they can answer this.

May 21, 2013, 03:29 AM	#51
sc928porsche Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2008 Location: now living in alabama Posts: 2,433	I choose the fair chase. No bait, no calls, no made blinds, no tree stands, etc. I will take advantage of the lay of the land. Creeks, gullies, rock outcroppings, and such. I feel that I have enough advantage. I carry a rifle. As long as it is legal, hunt the way you wish and I will hunt mine. __________________ No such thing as a stupid question. What is stupid is not asking it.

May 21, 2013, 10:14 AM	#54
JerryM Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,889	If hunting is to be a sport there must be a contest of skills of the hunter vs the game in his habitat, and following his natural instincts. Hunting over bait or a field destroys those elements. If you sit in a blind over bait, whether a food dispenser or a field, then the sport hunting element is gone, and it is just a matter of shooting. Whatever it is it is not hunting or sporting. There is no contest or skill involved. It is more like shooting cows in the pasture. Jerry __________________ Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

May 21, 2013, 01:16 PM	#57
JerryM Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,889	Hi, Keg. Hunting means that I learn where the game I want to hunt is found. Then I scout for a long as time permits. I learn the habits of the game, and what type of trophies or individuals are in the area. Then I prepare my equipment and get into shape so that I can climb or walk to the area, and hunt for some period of time. Also, I know I am going to have to field dress the game and get it to my camp or vehicle. That places limitations on distance and size of game hunted. Now many drive an ATV to a stand or blind, shoot a deer or whatever, and haul it back on the ATV. While I realize that not all do that, some do. It is not sporting and not hunting. I don’t intend to spend time arguing the point, but that is my opinion, and if I could only hunt over bait or a planted field out of a barn or fancy blind I would not hunt. What have you accomplished when you shoot an animal? Regards, Jerry __________________ Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

May 22, 2013, 12:36 PM	#63
Keg Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2011 Location: Freestone County, Texas Posts: 1,133	Excellent post Art! I had to sit back and look my self (re-adjust my thinkin)..after a post on hunting in the NE.... __________________ Hog Hunters never die........They just reload.........

May 22, 2013, 03:24 PM	#64
JerryM Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,889	How you hunt is important if you call it hunting and sporting. If you want to get out in the outdoors and do whatever that is fine. However, sport hunting is just that. It requires that the game be stalked/taken in his element, and not fed until he is used to it, and then shoot him. Saltydog, the thread was about hunting over bait. It has nothing to do with building a blind in the swamps. However, if you are hunting over bait, the number of mosquito bites has nothing to do with sport. I don't think you have really seen bugs until you go into Alaska in the bug season and experience that. Putting up blinds in the woods beside trails or places where deer naturally feed is not shooting over bait or a field planted for deer to feed. Anyway, each can do as he will as long as it is legal. Jerry __________________ Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

May 21, 2013, 07:31 AM	#52
Saltydog235 Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2010 Location: Pawleys Island Posts: 1,563	Hunting deer over a corn feeder is no more cheating than hunting them over a grove of oak trees dropping mast or a agricultural feild. Its a matter of how and where you have to hunt. Those of you in open country that can implement spot and stalk methods essentially set up ambushes on the prey. You cannot do that in my neck of the woods, you sit and wait over a food service area be it natural or from a bag. I laugh at the people who don't consider it fair chase. Those deer sit back in the woods 200yds off in cover and can spot most hunters, well the bucks that value their hides. It takes more work than some realize to do. Then again, some people get the notion that you can shoot 20-30 a night, back the truck up and stack them like cord-wood.

May 21, 2013, 07:39 AM	#53
mxsailor803 Senior Member Join Date: February 8, 2010 Location: SC Posts: 1,344	I'm so glad I'm from SC. We have one of the longest seasons I've ever heard of (Aug15 to Jan1). The only sub-season we have is when its legal to harvest does. None of the whole bow, muzzle loader, pistol, or rifle seasons. When the season comes in, its in and open by whatever means you want. Baiting is legal. Dog drives are still very traditional and ran every Saturday. We can even get tags to shoot deer at night out of season if you apply for them lol. Man I'm ready to go huntin!!!

May 21, 2013, 12:01 PM	#56
arch308 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2011 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 876	Hunting over food is no different than hunting over a watering hole or a known travel route. Surely you don't hunt where you know there are no deer. I really can't see hunting as a sport anyway. A way of life or a past time, yes. But not really a sporting competition between two equal competitors. JMHO If hunting over a feeder were really cheating my wall would be covered with trophys. It isn't. I have a few that I am proud of and not one was shot over the feeder. The biguns are smarter than that around here. I don't shoot anything but the occasional hog over my feeder. Does I like to take still hunting. I keep my feeder going year round to keep deer in my area. It is a must here because most hunters use them. If you don't want to hunt over food or it is illegal, then don't. Just don't look down on the hunters that choose to use legal methods.

May 21, 2013, 03:54 PM	#59
arch308 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2011 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 876	JerryM, I don't see much difference in your style of hunting except you walk a little to get there. I'm glad you enjoy your style of hunting and wish I was still young enough and had access to the amount of land you seem to. But you shouldn't look down on others because they do it a little differently. We as hunters shouldn't be bickering amongst ourselves about this type of trivia. We need to stand together against the anti-hunters as a whole. They are getting stronger all the time.

May 21, 2013, 05:08 PM	#60
BumbleBug Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2013 Location: Near Heart of Texas Posts: 870	JerryM, Believe me I understand your thinking, & I don't know if you have ever really hunted a feeder from a blind. But it is not a give me! I wish I still hunted South Texas & could invite you for a hunt. I have seen many 150+ class bucks killed, but none killed coming to a feeder. Zero, nada. As a matter of fact, most big bucks are invisible even on night cameras until the rut hits! This is all low fence I'm talking about. There are some quasi-legal hunting ranches where you literally buy a kill, but this is a small percentage of places to hunt. I also have also visited (not hunted) ranches where the does are bred via straws. Although legal, they are no place for a hunter, but great places to visit & wonder at the monster bucks! I assure you hunting is not competition & it varies from place to place & as sportsman we all need to stay legal & support each other on the collective term "hunting". FWIW... ...bug

May 22, 2013, 07:33 AM	#61
Saltydog235 Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2010 Location: Pawleys Island Posts: 1,563	If you don't think sitting in a stand in 90+ degree heat and 90% humidity in the middle of a swamp is tough, come on out and give it a try, my guess is the mosquitos run you out in less than 30 minutes. After you've stacked up you 15th trophy buck of the afternoon, I'll buy you dinner. There are different methods of hunting throughout the country and to disparage one based on the style is just plain stupid and biggoted. The fellow that says he stalks, observes and gets to know his game is being the ultimate hypocrite. We do the same in getting to know the game but hunting in open arid country isn't even feasible when you are after a Swamp Donkey, you would fail miserably employing your style here. Also if you are the type above, do you use a rifle? Compound Bow? Or do you fashion your own Bow/arrows from willow branches, arrowheads from flint, fletching from turkeys, and bindings from sinew taken from the buffalo you killed with rock. Unless you do that, you are being hypocritical. Man is able to invent and fashion tools. Man is a higher being than critters are, that is what had made him successful over the years. God gave man dominion over all animals, God never stipulated how to harvest them.

May 22, 2013, 10:56 AM	#62
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	I figure that getting out of the house and away from city sidewalks and into the boonies is far more important than the trivial issue of how you prefer to turn Bambi into supper. Mostly, game laws originated from the hunting fraternity. By and large, they set up what we adopt for ourselves as ethics and ethical hunting. Regardless, terrain, vegetation and weather control the methods for our hunting. To think that there is some sort of "One size fits all" is foolish. I prefer walking hunting or sneaky-snaking, but I know from experience that in thick-brush country you're fooling yourself to think you can do either. Mesquite, prickly pear and cat-claw acacia will change your attitude in a heartbeat. Cat-claw lets you learn all about the smell of blood: Your own. Pear thorn? They'll be all festered out by March, usually. You get down here in these south Georgia forests with head-high underbrush and if you're not in a high stand you'll be eating hamburgers at Maudie's Kum-Bak Cafe. Ya gotta see Bambi before you can shoot him. Folks generally hunt in whatever method works in the area they hunt in. Always have, always will. Pointless to go whining with this, "He's different, so he's bad!" style. Silly.

May 22, 2013, 03:51 PM	#66
JerryM Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 1999 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,889	Doyle, Do you mean you cannot stalk what deer are in your area? Yes, I am in NM, but I grew up in AR. I have some understanding of hunting in thick brush. It isn't easy, but isn't that what sport is about? I have kin in AR, and they do mostly hunt from stands. I do not have any objections to stands. In some places the brush is so thick, as also South TX, that you can't see very far. But they scout and determine where the deer are using and feeding ant the routes they use during different times of the year. Then they construct stands. That is a lot different from hunting over bait. Throughout the years I have enjoyed the scouting for game even more than the taking of game. It has given me time alone in the outdoors, and to see various wildlife in their natural habitat without being spooked or driven by other people. I also learned a lot more from scouting than the hunt which was often over too soon. I assume that you are using a feeder to attract deer to the area in general. As long as you are not sitting over the feeder, but just attempting to lure deer to an area I don't consider that hunting over a feeder. But hunting is more that shooting, and I am opposed to those who shoot at 1,000 yards and claim they hunt. It takes a lot of skill to hit the mark at that range, but it is still just shooting and not hunting. It does not take much skill to get within 1,000 yards of most game. Now, who else is angry with me?? Jerry __________________ Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

May 22, 2013, 05:20 PM	#69
arch308 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2011 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 876	JerryM, I still don't see a difference between sitting on deer travel routes and sitting over a food source. Now stalking an animal is different and very difficult. And is very rewarding. Still, you seem to look down on stand hunters. Unless they are related to you. I applaud your stalking skills. Like I said, when it's time for me to take a doe I preferre still hunting them. It's way too easy over the feeder. I just think you need to come down off your high horse about others ways of hunting. There is a certain mindset necessary for one to sit in one place all day. It doesn't require a lot of physicle effort but man, it ain't easy. And like I stated before, the less I roam around the more deer I see. I save the doe hunts for the last few weekends.

May 23, 2013, 01:19 AM	#71
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	I got a big patch of briars/thorns so high and thick with a few locust trees scattered throughout that I'd pay to watch someone still hunt .Long as I could video you coming out bleeding on the other end and was allowed to send the tape to Funniest Home Video's. By the time you got to the other end the game warden would arrest you for thinkin you were a pervert running around the woods naked cut to pieces. Guess where the 'big boys' hang out? Guess where the same big boys run when we shoot them close to there? I don't even pull up on a deer close to that area unless he's a monster. Cutting your way in is the best way to retrieve your deer.

May 23, 2013, 03:55 AM	#72
Todd1700 Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2008 Posts: 192	Baiting is one of the weirdest issues in the hunting world. You have people that will talk about hunting over corn like the people who do it are only a click or two above a child murderer. Then that same person will go sit over a green field and tell you they don't consider that bait. Well what is it then? It's a food source placed in a specific location by man for the purpose of luring a game animal into gun or bow range. How is that not bait? How is that different ethically than a feeder? What's the ethical difference in climbing a tree next to a white oak that's dropping acorns and climbing one that's next to a corn feeder? Where is the difference in skill in those two activities? Strange that people feel that way about corn feeders yet no one seems to say anything negative about people who go out to Wyoming and sit over the only water hole for 30 miles waiting for an antelope to show up. Or fly up to Canada and shoot a bear over a bait barrel. What's the moral or ethical difference there? I hear people call it cheating. Then that same person, puts on a scent dampening suit, drives to the woods in a 4x4; gets on a 4 wheeler to get further back in the woods; puts out a scent attractant; climbs a tree with a mechanical climber; scans for game using a 600 dollar pair of 12 power binoculars; then drops an animal that's 400 yards away using a high powered rifle with a 1000 dollars worth of scope sitting on top of it. LOL! Thank God they didn't cheat. They just took that deer on with the tools they were both born with. LOL! Lets face it. Unless you are running deer down on foot and stabbing them with a spear, you are cheating. It's just a matter of degree. As long as they aren't breaking the law don't look down your nose at someone else just because you have chosen to personally restrict yourself from using a couple of the 200 ways out there that we "Cheat" to kill animals. Odds are you are still using the other 198. Last edited by Todd1700; May 23, 2013 at 04:13 AM.

May 23, 2013, 09:10 AM	#74
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Cougars aren't hunters, really, since they tend to sit and wait near water or food until prey shows up. Wolves are hunters, since they run around in the open and chase down a meal. Sumpn's wrong with this picture.

May 23, 2013, 09:43 AM	#75
buck460XVR Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 2006 Posts: 4,342	I have no problem with deer baiting as long as it's legal in the area it is being practiced. That said, I am not a fan of sittin' over a bait pile. That's the difference between legality and ethics. What's legal is delegated supposedly by those who know better than the average hunter and must be followed by all or one can face a severe punishment. Ethics are delegated by ourselves and/or our hunting partners and if not followed the punishment is either a serious ribbing, a loss of a hunting partner/area or just a sick feeling in one's gut. In our hunter safety classes, we tell our students that ethics is doing the right thing when no one else is around. Many times ethics were once determined by law....baiting is a prime example. In Wisconsin, baiting at one time was illegal for deer. Those that used bait were poachers. As years went by and the deer herd exploded and it was determined that baiting made little or no difference in the overall kill, it was legalized. Baiters, while now legal, were still looked upon ethically by older hunters as "cheaters". A few years later when CWD was discovered and it was determined that baiting and feeding could lead to the spread of the disease, baiting was once again outlawed in most of the state. Now those that were legal a few years ago would now again be poachers if they continue the practice. To me, the big problem was those hunters that only learned how to hunt deer over a bait pile and deemed it the only way they could kill a deer. It was a shortcut to learning woodsmanship and the other skills needed to take deer successfully. Time that could have been spent learning trails and patterns were spent haulin' corn. IMHO, not only did their skills suffer, but so did the quality of their hunt. Are there areas in the country where there are no other viable options to baiting? I'm sure there is. Are there folks that could not hunt if they could not sit in a platform overlooking a feeder? Again, I'm sure there are. But, are those folks really experiencing the thrill of a real hunt? Only they can answer this.