Registration: Something I did not know

**Spats McGee** · November 3, 2014, 04:55 PM

My father, brother and I just got back from Canada. Hunting Canada's "stupid ducks" is something that my dad has wanted to do for ages. By the time the ducks get to Arkansas, they've heard every call and seen every decoy ever made, and guys have been shooting at them for weeks. They're a little skittish by the time we see them. That, however, is not the point of the story.

I checked three shotguns through from Little Rock National Airport to Saskatoon International. No problem there. I got my guns on the other side with very little difficulty. Where it got interesting was on the return trip. We flew from Saskatoon International Airport direct to Denver, where we had to go through customs, then back through TSA & security, etc. U.S. Customs & Border Patrol Agents were firm (but not impolite) in telling me that the next time I traveled abroad with firearms, I "should register them" before I left.

I had never heard of anyone registering firearms before leaving the country. From what I can gather, you can also register just about any personal items using CBP Form 4457. (In case anyone's interested, it can be found here.) Does anyone know what happens to these forms? Does CBP keep them? Does it record the information?

BobCat45 · November 3, 2014, 05:07 PM

Interesting form!

In the instructions, it says "The signed form is to be returned to the applicant and must be shown to CBP each time the registered article(s) are returned."

Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like a form that you fill out, they sign that the articles are presented by you along with the form (i.e. verifying that the articles are in your possession), and give you back the form to prove, to them upon your return, that the articles were in your possession before you left.

**Aguila Blanca** · November 3, 2014, 09:05 PM

I have used that form when traveling to Europe with a (moderately) high-end camera. IIRC, I kept the form. Its purpose is to show that you owned the item before you departed CONUS, that its not something you purchased "over there" (wherever "there" is) and are importing for the first time.

kilimanjaro · November 3, 2014, 09:06 PM

It's not gun registration, just a schedule of valuables taken traveling so you won't have to pay excise taxes or prove ownership with old US receipts when come back.

Guns, cameras, good suits, jewelry, collectables, stuff like that.

FrankenMauser · November 4, 2014, 01:37 AM

Quote:

It's not gun registration, just a schedule of valuables taken traveling so you won't have to pay excise taxes or prove ownership with old US receipts when come back.

Guns, cameras, good suits, jewelry, collectables, stuff like that.

Exactly. ^^

**Spats McGee** · November 4, 2014, 01:24 PM

I talked to a buddy of mine about this. Apparently, he used this form to "register" his rifles before going on a hunting trip. He said that you fill it out, have it & your firearms examined by someone on the way outbound, and then someone examines the form and the firearms on the way back. He did not recall anyone copying the form, writing down the information, or anything of the like.

So I guess it's not really "registration," at least not until CBP decides to start scanning the documents. The CBP officers that I encountered certainly called it "registration," though.

**Frank Ettin** · November 4, 2014, 02:39 PM

I haven't heard of the form being used for firearms, but my understanding is the same as Aguila Blanca's. It's a way to be able to prove that the Rolex or Leica or other thing of value is something you took abroad with you. It's not something you bought over there and for which you must pay duty when you come back.

FrankenMauser · November 4, 2014, 05:05 PM

Quote:

I haven't heard of the form being used for firearms, but my understanding is the same as Aguila Blanca's. It's a way to be able to prove that the Rolex or Leica or other thing of value is something you took abroad with you. It's not something you bought over there and for which you must pay duty when you come back.

My father has used the form for several trips to Africa (multiple countries), Mongolia, and China.
For South Africa, Mongolia, and China, in particular, he was warned that the customs offices he'd be going through absolutely would NOT let his firearms back out of the country, if he didn't have them listed on the 4457 as well as the country-specific forms.

Even so... On the way into Mongolia, his rifles were held for ransom (essentially a $1,000 per rifle demand) until contact was made with a Cabinet Minister that ordered the rifles released to his possession immediately. (Based on the political figures involved in setting up the trip, to begin with, I wouldn't be surprised if the corrupt customs clerks were executed and fed to the local homeless population...

)

**Spats McGee** · November 5, 2014, 09:39 AM

Thank you all for the information. It's very helpful.

wogpotter · November 5, 2014, 11:46 AM

That pre listed form is a life saver.

Its not a firearms list, but a valuable property list & a firearm is valuable property. No copy of it is kept they just fill it in with you & stamp it with a Customs seal & date & sign it. Once filled in you can use it multiple times unless you change, or add to the stuff listed, then you just update with a new copy.

I used to travel from NYC to Montreal every month for work at a specific venue & return 3 days later. I was a sports photographer & so carried a lot of camera equipment as well as a complete portable photography studio. (We're talking several thousand dollars here). Because of the relationship between Canada & the USA there is an oddity I've never encountered elsewhere. U.S. Customs inspection is carried out in Canada, at the airport in Montreal! (This allows Canadian-American flights to use LaGuardia Airport instead of JFK & LaGuardia being primarily an internal airport it has no customs staff there as such).

What I did not know is that assignment to the Montreal US customs post is an (unofficial) "punishment detail" as you get to live there for a 3 month period, but your family does not. Because of this some of the officers there are never having a good day & God help you if one of them decides to act out on you.

I was told a passport was no proof of identity, nor was a drivers license, & that an original receipt was not "proof of purchase". Because of this they threatened to impound all my camera & studio equipment until I returned with acceptable documentation.

Luckily I had the form mentioned which I always carried listing every item of equipment together with identifying serial numbers so they had to allow me to keep the equipment.

Destructo6 · November 5, 2014, 01:15 PM

BTW, CBP is Customs and Border Protection.

The guys at the airport are the Customs side or blue shirts. With the exception of a few airports within 100 air miles of a land border, you won't often see Border Patrol Agents (green shirts) there.

November 3, 2014, 04:55 PM	#1
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	Registration: Something I did not know My father, brother and I just got back from Canada. Hunting Canada's "stupid ducks" is something that my dad has wanted to do for ages. By the time the ducks get to Arkansas, they've heard every call and seen every decoy ever made, and guys have been shooting at them for weeks. They're a little skittish by the time we see them. That, however, is not the point of the story. I checked three shotguns through from Little Rock National Airport to Saskatoon International. No problem there. I got my guns on the other side with very little difficulty. Where it got interesting was on the return trip. We flew from Saskatoon International Airport direct to Denver, where we had to go through customs, then back through TSA & security, etc. U.S. Customs & Border Patrol Agents were firm (but not impolite) in telling me that the next time I traveled abroad with firearms, I "should register them" before I left. I had never heard of anyone registering firearms before leaving the country. From what I can gather, you can also register just about any personal items using CBP Form 4457. (In case anyone's interested, it can be found here.) Does anyone know what happens to these forms? Does CBP keep them? Does it record the information? __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

November 3, 2014, 05:07 PM	#2
BobCat45 Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Location: East Bernard, TX Posts: 524	Interesting form! In the instructions, it says "The signed form is to be returned to the applicant and must be shown to CBP each time the registered article(s) are returned." Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like a form that you fill out, they sign that the articles are presented by you along with the form (i.e. verifying that the articles are in your possession), and give you back the form to prove, to them upon your return, that the articles were in your possession before you left. Last edited by BobCat45; November 3, 2014 at 05:08 PM. Reason: grammar

November 4, 2014, 01:24 PM	#6
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	I talked to a buddy of mine about this. Apparently, he used this form to "register" his rifles before going on a hunting trip. He said that you fill it out, have it & your firearms examined by someone on the way outbound, and then someone examines the form and the firearms on the way back. He did not recall anyone copying the form, writing down the information, or anything of the like. So I guess it's not really "registration," at least not until CBP decides to start scanning the documents. The CBP officers that I encountered certainly called it "registration," though. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

November 4, 2014, 02:39 PM	#7
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	I haven't heard of the form being used for firearms, but my understanding is the same as Aguila Blanca's. It's a way to be able to prove that the Rolex or Leica or other thing of value is something you took abroad with you. It's not something you bought over there and for which you must pay duty when you come back. __________________ "It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper

November 5, 2014, 09:39 AM	#9
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	Thank you all for the information. It's very helpful. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

November 3, 2014, 09:05 PM	#3
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,479	I have used that form when traveling to Europe with a (moderately) high-end camera. IIRC, I kept the form. Its purpose is to show that you owned the item before you departed CONUS, that its not something you purchased "over there" (wherever "there" is) and are importing for the first time.

November 3, 2014, 09:06 PM	#4
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	It's not gun registration, just a schedule of valuables taken traveling so you won't have to pay excise taxes or prove ownership with old US receipts when come back. Guns, cameras, good suits, jewelry, collectables, stuff like that.

November 5, 2014, 11:46 AM	#10
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	That pre listed form is a life saver. Its not a firearms list, but a valuable property list & a firearm is valuable property. No copy of it is kept they just fill it in with you & stamp it with a Customs seal & date & sign it. Once filled in you can use it multiple times unless you change, or add to the stuff listed, then you just update with a new copy. I used to travel from NYC to Montreal every month for work at a specific venue & return 3 days later. I was a sports photographer & so carried a lot of camera equipment as well as a complete portable photography studio. (We're talking several thousand dollars here). Because of the relationship between Canada & the USA there is an oddity I've never encountered elsewhere. U.S. Customs inspection is carried out in Canada, at the airport in Montreal! (This allows Canadian-American flights to use LaGuardia Airport instead of JFK & LaGuardia being primarily an internal airport it has no customs staff there as such). What I did not know is that assignment to the Montreal US customs post is an (unofficial) "punishment detail" as you get to live there for a 3 month period, but your family does not. Because of this some of the officers there are never having a good day & God help you if one of them decides to act out on you. I was told a passport was no proof of identity, nor was a drivers license, & that an original receipt was not "proof of purchase". Because of this they threatened to impound all my camera & studio equipment until I returned with acceptable documentation. Luckily I had the form mentioned which I always carried listing every item of equipment together with identifying serial numbers so they had to allow me to keep the equipment. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

November 5, 2014, 01:15 PM	#11
Destructo6 Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 1999 Location: Nogales, AZ USA Posts: 4,001	BTW, CBP is Customs and Border Protection. The guys at the airport are the Customs side or blue shirts. With the exception of a few airports within 100 air miles of a land border, you won't often see Border Patrol Agents (green shirts) there. __________________ God gave you a soul. Your parents, a body. Your country, a rifle. Keep all of them clean.