Want reloadable Centerfire w/ 17HMR properties.

[rolyasm]

Okay,
So I am NOT a big hunter. I shoot mostly cans, and I won't mention the joke that goes with that.
I have shot a friends 17HMR a few times and love it. A lot more fun than .22s at moderate ranges. I like that I can spot my own shots due to the minimal kick and I Love watching cans of soda explode at 150 yards.
But want I want is 1)something I can reload cheaply and that won't stress my newish-reloader mind, 2)something I can spot with through my scope, 3) something not a ton more expensive than other rounds and 4) something that might have a little more range than the 17HRM.
I have never necked-up or down or "created" my own brass (majorly reformed it). I know some calibers use a necked .223, and I already load .223, so if something were very easy to do, that would be an option. Otherwise a round that I can get both commercially and has enough reloading supplies around would be nice.
I will not be out trying to kill gophers at 400 yards, but I would love to blast a can of shasta at 400 yards. Rodents may come later, we'll see.
Roly

[troy_mclure]

.204 ruger is your best bet. but its pricy to buy at $1/rd.

[bigautomatic]

I was going to mention 20 Vartarg, but after reading into your post a bit further, I don't think thats what you're looking for. How about 17 fireball? Pretty sure it is available in the Remmie 700 (or was anyway). I imagine it would vaporize a can of soda. And, um, why not the .223? I think it has everything you described. Tons of different bullet weights and types (nearly endless), etc, etc.

[viking499]

223 will probably be the cheapest to shoot. If you want smaller, then I would go either .204 or .17 fireball........

Just my 2 pennies.......

[dwwhite]

I would look really hard at the Howa in .204.

It's a fun caliber to shoot, and relatively economical, and easy, to reload, and while it's a really small bore gun, the components aren't so tiny that you need tweezers and a magnifier. Plus, in a pinch you can buy factory loads at the Wal-Mart if you need to. Try that with a .17 Fireball or a .20 VarTarg (sp??)

Plus, my experience has been that the .204 is an accurate cartridge, and the Howa is an EXCELLENT rifle. If you end up with it, it won't be long before you're joining the rest of us 1500 owners and telling everybody who will listen, "You know, they make these for Weatherby too."

[tINY]

With a heavier rifle and lighter 223 bullets, you could get the same effect. Especially if you reload...

204 is said to be nice too - but it means new cleaning rods and less bullet selection.



-tINY

[ferg]

Try Ruger .204

[Catfish25p2000]

You could go with a .22 hornet also. I don't know much about them, and I doubt brass is cheap, but you could try it. If you want a small screamer, go with a .17 fireball. That is a screamer. Hard on barrels, but probably a hell of a lot of fun to shoot. A little bit of a pain to reload if you have big thumbs though!

[Tom Matiska]

22 Hornet with 30-35 gr bullets

[tachunter]

If your thinking from a budget mind frame and reloading...223 1st, 204 second. Personally for little critters I prefer the .17 HMR with a heavy barrel even though I reload. Can’t reload them, but it’s not like you have to pay an arm and a leg for ammo if you just buy bricks. I couldn't begin to tell you how many squirrels heads I have canoed with it from beyond 70yds. Through my chrono at 2500fps consistently, that's good enough for me.

[Peter M. Eick]

I agree with the 22 hornet suggestion. It could be loaded very closely to 17hmr performance and still have some upside.

Great round by the way.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I'm a big 22 Hornet fan, & a Contender collector with alot of barrels in the small sized calibers...

probably the closest would be a 17 Hornet wildcat ( 17 Kilborn or 17 Ackley )... & everything is pretty commonly available to load these... but they really aren't beginner cartridges... 1st you reload the 1st time with the 22 hornet shaped case necked down to 17 caliber, then when fired, the case fire forms to the improved case dimensions... in my expirience the standard case when fire forming shoots quite well in itself... ( I have a 17 K Hornet that I load for )

next closest would probably be the 22 Hornet... a big selection of light weight "explosive" bullets for the Hornet have come on the market lately & there is no reason to think that a 30 something grain varmint bullet out of the Hornet won't do what you are looking for...

next & much easier to load than the 17 Hornet would probably be the 17 Fireball, which is available as a factory loaded cartridge, & with factory formed brass... one of the nice things about the Fireball, is the brass is much heavier than the Hornets, & will last longer & is less likely to get damaged by a newer reloader... one of the bad things, is the availability of rifles, & the Remington offerings I've seen have not been cheaper in price...

...if cost & availability of rifles, ammo & components are of the most concern... the 223 is the way to go... it's a big step up in power, but rifles & components, as well as factory ammo are available as cheaply as any & almost everywhere... you won't likely find any of the cartridges I listed previously at the local Walmart, except the 223...

the 204 Ruger seems pretty interesting, & there are now several other rifle manufacterers building guns in that cailber... seems like it might hang around ??? it uses a 20 caliber bullet, which are not very common yet, but it seems to fill a nitch with long range varmint & preditor shooters, so it may turn out to have a wide range of offerings in a couple years ???

personally if it were me, I'd either go 17 Fireball if I were interested in a 17 caliber reloadable cartridge... 22 Hornet if I really wanted to best match that power level, or the 223 if price & over all cost & availability were more of a concern...

as a footnote... the Hornet sized cases use less powder, & therefore can be reloaded cheaper after all the components are collected...& they really aren't that hard to load for

[hodaka]

Of course there is always the .17 Remington if you want to go really fast. I have entertained that but special cleaning tools, special brass, special, special, special, but they really go fast.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

my father in law really liked the 17 Remington ( it is super fast ), but he was never able to get much out of it accuracy wise for all that speed... he had some loads that went so fast, the bullets came apart & never made it to the target... he had to slow them down to get good groups, & he never shot it more than 200 yards, & only got marginal accuracy at 200 yards... we still have 3 rifles in 17 Remington, & all the reload components, but I just haven't had that much interest in the cartridge myself... for the reasons I listed

[Sevens]

I like a lot of these choices but if the big motivator outside of a round that will do what is asked is for PRICE, MONEY and AVAILABILITY, then this is no race whatsoever. .223 Rem kills everything you put up against it.

Simply put, components (brass, bullets, appropriate powder), tools, load data and availability of firearms chambered for it-- there's no caliber on earth that comes anywhere close.

A .22 Hornet may be exactly what you want and you may end up with a .204 Ruger or any number of other stuff, and you may be HAPPY at the end of the day.

But if you want cheap and easy and plentiful for all the stuff I mentioned, the race is over before it ever started. It's .223 Rem, end of story. It's all about the popularity of the round. It can't be matched.

[mapsjanhere]

There's also the aspect of reloading small cartridges like the .17 with big fat fingers ....

[duck911]

The perfect cartridge exists out there for exactly what you want, it's called the 17 Ackley Hornet (17AH).

It is a bit of a wildcat though and there would be case forming required, but it puts a 17 caliber bullet down range VERY fast and without using a lot of powder. It's probably as close to a "re-loadable rimfire" as a guy can get.

--Duck911

[Brian Pfleuger]

It's .223 Rem, end of story. It's all about the popularity of the round. It can't be matched.

What's the smallest bullet available for the 223? The one major advantage of the 204, and the one that the OP specifically asked for, was effectively zero recoil. The "crosshairs don't twitch" sort of recoil. Can that be done with high-power 223 loads?

[rolyasm]

Hey PeetzaKilla, that was my question as I was reading through this. I think the recoil might be to much for can plinking at 250 yards. I have an AR15 in .223, and I love it. However, I can't stay on-target-through-scope very easy, BUT, I have not tried loading small power loads with it either.
It sounds like the calibers that might be meeting my criteria are the 204 ruger, 17 fireball, 17Rem, 22 hornet (though it doesn't sound like there are many available factory rounds, and possible the .223.

1).204 cons: new caliber, not proven, might disappear and components will be hard to get Pros: Low recoil, easily reloadable, factory loads readily available $0.80/shell, easier to find rifles

2)17 Fireball: Cons: same as 204, but not as new on market, xtra cleaning tools, and harder to find factory loads $1/shell, harder to find rifles
Pros: same as 204

3)17Rem, Cons: Accuracy?, xtra cleaning tools, newer cartridge, $1/shell
Pros: Low recoil,Fast, moderate availability,

4)22 Hornet: Cons: Harder to reload?, hard on barrel,
Pros: Low recoil, factory loads available, $.70/shell, lots of rifles

5) .223: Cons: recoil, perhaps not as accurate at longer ranges?
Pros: Availability, cheap, tons of rifles and supplies, >$0.50/shell,

I based the cost at Midway.com and only looked at single boxes, not bulk, just to get a relative idea of cost. I know I can get ammo cheaper.

As far as availability online for ammo it goes like this: .223 (tons), 204 ruger (16 varieties) .22 hornet (12 varieties), 17Rem and 17Fireball (2 Varieties).
Anything you want to add?

I think, based on the availability and closeness of comparison, I could narrow it down to 204 ruger, .22 hornet and .223. I will try to find some ballistic information between the 3. I would also like to hear your thoughts on using a normal .223 rifle ( one without buckshot in a bag tied to it to make it heavier) and recoil. Thanks all.

[Scorch]

17 Hornet (just a bit more oomph than 17HMR!)
5mm Craig (centerfire version of the 5mm Remington)
20 Tactical
17 Rem Fireball
20 Fireball

or, if you prefer a factory load
22 Hornet
218 Bee
221 Fireball

[Brian Pfleuger]

Hey PeetzaKilla, that was my question as I was reading through this. I think the recoil might be to much for can plinking at 250 yards. I have an AR15 in .223, and I love it. However, I can't stay on-target-through-scope very easy, BUT, I have not tried loading small power loads with it either.
It sounds like the calibers that might be meeting my criteria are the 204 ruger, 17 fireball, 17Rem, 22 hornet (though it doesn't sound like there are many available factory rounds, and possible the .223.

I think that given your criteria and combined with the availability and price of factory ammo, the 204 is the ideal choice.

It is as near "laserlike" as any bullet can be. MUCH, much flatter shooting past 200 yards than the HMR and, frankly, much flatter shooting than almost ANY other cartridge. Yes, there are some that are close, but not many. If I remember correctly, the maximum point blank range on a 3 inch target is 192 yards for the 204 with 40gr bullets.

Near zero recoil. My MkII in 204 has a Harris bi-pod and Mueller scope, the whole thing weighs in at around 9 pounds, and it literally doesn't MOVE on the shot. Total clarity of the "results".

204 ammo is a bit pricey, but it's only marginally more than most any other center fire caliber, particularly in stores. Bulk might be a different world.

If you reload then the 204 is essentially the same price as any other center fire. Cheaper than some, more than others, but what you may spend on bullets you will save by using less powder. The 204 uses only about 2/3 of the powder (or less) than a 22-250 to get similar velocities. Plus, the 204 can be loaded to OVER 4300fps with the 32gr bullet.

[rolyasm]

Here is an interesting graph I found comparing recoil energy and velocity.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

Interesting that the 17HRM varies so much from the 204 ruger, and also of interest is the similarity between the 204 ruger and .223.

[Brian Pfleuger]

is the similarity between the 204 ruger and .223.

Notice though that the 223 recoil that is similar (although still 23% more) to the 204 is with a load traveling 1000fps slower. The 223 load that approaches the speed of the 204 is more than double the recoil energy, and still 400 fps slower.

[rolyasm]

Just to verify, the 22 Hornet has brass and bullets readily available to reload? I don't have to neck anything down or form brass? What are the pros/cons to reloading the 22 hornet?

[Peter M. Eick]

Check Cabella's. They sell factory ammo and reloads in bulk. I saw big plastic containers of the stuff over at the fort worth store. Probably 500 rnds per container.