Sale of a firearm to a Curios and Relics license holder?

ADB · June 21, 2009, 12:32 AM

Question: if someone sells a gun online to a Curios and Relics license holder, is the seller legally required to report the transaction in any way, or is verifying the C&R's validity good enough?

cbrgator · June 21, 2009, 12:37 AM

The seller just needs a signed copy of the buyers C&R license.

EOD Guy · June 21, 2009, 12:31 PM

A C&R FFL can also be verified at the BATF eZCheck site toll free number.

dakuda · June 21, 2009, 09:04 PM

From what I have gathered:

A faxed copy of a Type 01 FFL is ok.

A faxed copy of a Type 03 FFL (C&R) is not ok. It has to be a copy that has been signed in pen. So, mailing it is about the only option. Other than that, just record the transaction in the bound book.

EOD Guy · June 21, 2009, 09:57 PM

That is not true. A fax or e-mail copy of a C&R FFL is perfectly acceptable. BATF did not differenciate between types of FFLs when they approved fax or e-mail copies. Their position, and that of most Federal agencies, is that if the originator intended the facsimile signture to be an original then it was.

dakuda · June 23, 2009, 06:13 PM

Most of the sites that I have looked at seem to require 03 to be mailed, but will accept 01 faxed. That is just my experience.

EOD Guy · June 23, 2009, 06:55 PM

I know that's true, but it makes absolutely no sense. Legally, a reproduced signature is just as valid as an original. Some sellers say it's because you can't verify a C&R FFL On the BATF eZCheck web site. Again, that make no sense, since it can easily be verified at the eZCheck toll free number. The last 2 I verified there took about 30 seconds each.

cbrgator · June 23, 2009, 10:57 PM

I've sent electronic copies of my C&R to multiple dealers with no issues.

5150 SGT · June 24, 2009, 03:25 PM

I buy and sell C&R firearms, not as a business, as a collector, and what I have found by checking with the ATF regarding transactions originating on an auction web site or in interstate commerce is a faxed or E-mailed copy of an 01 or 03 FFL is just as good as a mailed copy. The key word that always comes up in my conversations with the ATF is the copy must be legible. Since not all Fax machines are able to send crisp clear copies that's where the rub comes in. The bottom line is, if the copy you receive is clear and legible it is just as valid as a photocopy signed in ink and mailed to you.

Hkmp5sd · June 24, 2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

The seller just needs a signed copy of the buyers C&R license.

A non-licensee is not required to have any copy of a FFL, whether 01 or 03 when sending a firearm to a FFL. There are no provisions in the GCA that require a non-licensee to maintain any firearm transfer records.

June 21, 2009, 12:32 AM	#1
ADB Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2009 Posts: 399	Sale of a firearm to a Curios and Relics license holder? Question: if someone sells a gun online to a Curios and Relics license holder, is the seller legally required to report the transaction in any way, or is verifying the C&R's validity good enough?

June 21, 2009, 12:37 AM	#2
cbrgator Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2009 Posts: 135	The seller just needs a signed copy of the buyers C&R license.

June 21, 2009, 12:31 PM	#3
EOD Guy Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 1999 Location: Concord, CA, USA Posts: 726	A C&R FFL can also be verified at the BATF eZCheck site toll free number.

June 21, 2009, 09:04 PM	#4
dakuda Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 65	From what I have gathered: A faxed copy of a Type 01 FFL is ok. A faxed copy of a Type 03 FFL (C&R) is not ok. It has to be a copy that has been signed in pen. So, mailing it is about the only option. Other than that, just record the transaction in the bound book.

June 21, 2009, 09:57 PM	#5
EOD Guy Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 1999 Location: Concord, CA, USA Posts: 726	That is not true. A fax or e-mail copy of a C&R FFL is perfectly acceptable. BATF did not differenciate between types of FFLs when they approved fax or e-mail copies. Their position, and that of most Federal agencies, is that if the originator intended the facsimile signture to be an original then it was.

June 23, 2009, 06:13 PM	#6
dakuda Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 65	Most of the sites that I have looked at seem to require 03 to be mailed, but will accept 01 faxed. That is just my experience.

June 23, 2009, 06:55 PM	#7
EOD Guy Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 1999 Location: Concord, CA, USA Posts: 726	I know that's true, but it makes absolutely no sense. Legally, a reproduced signature is just as valid as an original. Some sellers say it's because you can't verify a C&R FFL On the BATF eZCheck web site. Again, that make no sense, since it can easily be verified at the eZCheck toll free number. The last 2 I verified there took about 30 seconds each.

June 23, 2009, 10:57 PM	#8
cbrgator Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2009 Posts: 135	I've sent electronic copies of my C&R to multiple dealers with no issues.

June 24, 2009, 03:25 PM	#9
5150 SGT Member Join Date: January 5, 2001 Location: West Fresno County, California Posts: 19	I buy and sell C&R firearms, not as a business, as a collector, and what I have found by checking with the ATF regarding transactions originating on an auction web site or in interstate commerce is a faxed or E-mailed copy of an 01 or 03 FFL is just as good as a mailed copy. The key word that always comes up in my conversations with the ATF is the copy must be legible. Since not all Fax machines are able to send crisp clear copies that's where the rub comes in. The bottom line is, if the copy you receive is clear and legible it is just as valid as a photocopy signed in ink and mailed to you.