crimp or not

tigerstripe_666 · October 17, 2005, 12:13 PM

do u guys generally crimp everything or no? oh yea 30-06 bolt action.

30Cal · October 17, 2005, 01:22 PM

Only revolver and leveraction loads.

Ifishsum · October 17, 2005, 01:24 PM

Generally not for bolt rifles.

Wildalaska · October 17, 2005, 01:41 PM

Only for semi autos

WildandallanswersarenowgivenAlaska

Olaf · October 17, 2005, 07:45 PM

I guess I am the exception (what else is new ?). I always crimp my 8mm mauser loads, using a Lee FC die. I started this when getting insufficient bullet tension from the sizing die...and it hasn't seemed to hurt brass life, so far. Also, if I don't crimp, the loaded rounds have a rough-feeling ring at the neck - which causes me to fear feeding problems. So, I just crimp as SOP. I have no idea as to whether this helps or hurts the accuracy of my loads. It doesn't seem to have gotten in the way of developing a couple of good loads for my rifle. I will probably try not crimping, when I have occasion to get more new brass. As for now, it seems not to cause a problem.

Peter M. Eick · October 18, 2005, 07:48 AM

Yesterday I ran an experiment with the lee FCD. I was expecting the opposite to happen, so I am still thinking about this one. I posted the details over on the highroad under reloading.

The "cut to the chase" version is a 30/30. 20 shots over the chrono, only difference in the load was the FCD die, just lightly used, adjusted to just see the crimp in the case neck.

without 2079+ 2010- 69e 2042m 22s
with fcd 2176+ 2033- 143e 2062m 41s

If you are not used to looking at Oehler printouts, go to the last 2 numbers on the row. They are the mean (m) velocity and standard deviation (s).

As you can see, the FCD increased the velocity which is consistent with a stronger bullet pull, but doubled the standard deviation and this made the round more inconsistent.

My thinking this morning, is don't use the FCD on 30/30 rounds, but more experimentation is necessary. One test does not a study make!

Gewehr98 · October 18, 2005, 09:23 PM

I've noticed better velocities, but not a bigger spread in velocity variations.

Peter, perhaps the powder charge or case volume was the variable in your spread? Was the powder against the primer or bullet?

Some cartridge/bullet/powder combinations demand a goodly amount of neck tension for proper ignition. That's especially true for cast bullet light loads with a lot of air space between powder and bullet.

I also crimp for all my autoloading handguns and rifles. I've tried autoloading rifle rounds without any crimp, and been shocked to find bullets pushed back into the cases on some occasions.

Peter M. Eick · October 20, 2005, 09:12 AM

Every charge was machine dispensed (meaning weighted with an RCBS powder dispenser and digital scale). In the 30/30 it fills the case pretty full so I venture to guess that it was against both. Maybe it matters in other loads, but this one it did not help.

I guess the advice I got once was "trust nothing, test everything". I will follow that more closely in the future!

30Cal · October 20, 2005, 10:21 AM

I've got a 25-20 lever gun that responds better to some loads with crimp, and with other loads, it doesn't make a difference, or makes them worse.

Quote:

I also crimp for all my autoloading handguns and rifles. I've tried autoloading rifle rounds without any crimp, and been shocked to find bullets pushed back into the cases on some occasions.

The expander ball on your sizing die is too big. Case neck tension alone should be more than adequate to hold the bullet in place.

Ty

Gewehr98 · October 20, 2005, 08:36 PM

Quote:

The expander ball on your sizing die is too big. Case neck tension alone should be more than adequate to hold the bullet in place.

Kalashnikovs are not terribly gentle on their ammo. I'll stay with the crimp on my 7.62x39 handloads, and my other military pattern autoloaders.

MADISON · October 24, 2005, 09:14 AM

I have been loading for 35 years.
I am lazy. I found TAPER CRIMP DIES in every thing I load, at a close out price. SIERRA sells most of their rifle bullets without a canalure. No canalure, no crimp.

October 17, 2005, 12:13 PM	#1
tigerstripe_666 Junior Member Join Date: January 27, 2005 Posts: 8	crimp or not do u guys generally crimp everything or no? oh yea 30-06 bolt action.

October 18, 2005, 07:48 AM	#6
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	Yesterday I ran an experiment with the lee FCD. I was expecting the opposite to happen, so I am still thinking about this one. I posted the details over on the highroad under reloading. The "cut to the chase" version is a 30/30. 20 shots over the chrono, only difference in the load was the FCD die, just lightly used, adjusted to just see the crimp in the case neck. without 2079+ 2010- 69e 2042m 22s with fcd 2176+ 2033- 143e 2062m 41s If you are not used to looking at Oehler printouts, go to the last 2 numbers on the row. They are the mean (m) velocity and standard deviation (s). As you can see, the FCD increased the velocity which is consistent with a stronger bullet pull, but doubled the standard deviation and this made the round more inconsistent. My thinking this morning, is don't use the FCD on 30/30 rounds, but more experimentation is necessary. One test does not a study make! __________________ 10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!

October 18, 2005, 09:23 PM	#7
Gewehr98 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: Token Creek, WI Posts: 4,067	I use the Lee FCD on my .30-30 loads. I've noticed better velocities, but not a bigger spread in velocity variations. Peter, perhaps the powder charge or case volume was the variable in your spread? Was the powder against the primer or bullet? Some cartridge/bullet/powder combinations demand a goodly amount of neck tension for proper ignition. That's especially true for cast bullet light loads with a lot of air space between powder and bullet. I also crimp for all my autoloading handguns and rifles. I've tried autoloading rifle rounds without any crimp, and been shocked to find bullets pushed back into the cases on some occasions. __________________ "Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round... Neural Misfires

October 20, 2005, 09:12 AM	#8
Peter M. Eick Senior Member Join Date: August 3, 1999 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 2,991	Every charge was machine dispensed (meaning weighted with an RCBS powder dispenser and digital scale). In the 30/30 it fills the case pretty full so I venture to guess that it was against both. Maybe it matters in other loads, but this one it did not help. I guess the advice I got once was "trust nothing, test everything". I will follow that more closely in the future! __________________ 10mm and 357sig, the best things to come along since the 38 super!

October 24, 2005, 09:14 AM	#11
MADISON Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2000 Location: Roanoke, Virginia Posts: 2,678	Crimp or Not? I have been loading for 35 years. I am lazy. I found TAPER CRIMP DIES in every thing I load, at a close out price. SIERRA sells most of their rifle bullets without a canalure. No canalure, no crimp.

October 17, 2005, 01:22 PM	#2
30Cal Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2002 Posts: 1,264	Only revolver and leveraction loads.

October 17, 2005, 01:24 PM	#3
Ifishsum Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,033	Generally not for bolt rifles.

October 17, 2005, 01:41 PM	#4
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	Only for semi autos WildandallanswersarenowgivenAlaska

October 17, 2005, 07:45 PM	#5
Olaf Senior Member Join Date: June 12, 2005 Location: not from Svalbard Posts: 346	I guess I am the exception (what else is new ?). I always crimp my 8mm mauser loads, using a Lee FC die. I started this when getting insufficient bullet tension from the sizing die...and it hasn't seemed to hurt brass life, so far. Also, if I don't crimp, the loaded rounds have a rough-feeling ring at the neck - which causes me to fear feeding problems. So, I just crimp as SOP. I have no idea as to whether this helps or hurts the accuracy of my loads. It doesn't seem to have gotten in the way of developing a couple of good loads for my rifle. I will probably try not crimping, when I have occasion to get more new brass. As for now, it seems not to cause a problem.