.380 vs .45 - - Page 2

Hoss 48 · April 16, 2008, 04:15 PM

First, a 380 in my meager opinion is only a backup gun. But if its all you have and your life is in danger I agree with the others, go for center mass first, a shot to the spine will neutralize him even if it doesn't go through. The head is a good choice but it's hard to hit and the head shot is not as successful as it is on TV. Human skull is much harder than people realize. Many people have survived from a head shot. Unless you hit a vital organ or spine the 380 will probbably not immediately stop him anyway. Although I have seen people killed with a 22 calibre to the chest. It was a direct hit to the heart though.

Wuchak · April 16, 2008, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deaf Smith

First off you are talking about a P3AT. That weapon has very poor sights, poor trigger, poor grip, and low power. It is not a precision weapon.

That means precision shots at almost 7 yards is pretty iffy. And with the low power you do need precision shots if at all possible.

Actually the P-3AT is surprisingly accurate. Keeping 3-4" groups at 10 yards is not much of a challenge. With the Armalaser that shrinks to 2-3"

Deaf Smith · April 17, 2008, 07:22 PM

Maybe slowfire Wuchak, but slowfire is not the mission of a defensive pistol.

mavracer · April 17, 2008, 07:46 PM

with the recent shooting in a Nebraska mall(he was armed with SKS) I asked myself this very question.ran through the various sceneros and came to this conclusion.first you would have to quickly survey situation and if I decide I need to shoot.take as much cover avaliable take aim right between the shoulder blades at the base of the neck and pour as many as I can there.Win or die trying.

GoSlash27 · April 17, 2008, 07:53 PM

The short version is if you're forced to engage with a .380 you engage.
The .380 out of a 2.75" barrel (as wimpy as it is) will still make the FBI minimums with the correct ammo. If you can put the bullets where they need to go they will drop the attacker as well as anything else.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/380acp%2...clothing).html

Also a +1 on the surprising accuracy of the P3AT. I've shot groups well enough to pass the qualification for concealed carry in my county (79 cumulative 10 rds on an NRA B8 at 25 yds).

Now having said that, if you don't trust the thing to get the job done then don't carry it. One sure way to die is to pull out a pistol and hesitate to pull the trigger because you're not confident in it.

Deafsmith,
I'm gonna test that hypothesis out this summer. I'll be running BUG class IDPA with a P3AT. It seems to doubletap pretty well in practice.

Deaf Smith · April 17, 2008, 09:26 PM

GoSlash,

That's the way to find out just what you can do with what you have. I shoot IDPA to. Real good for a test bed of both your carry gun and your gear.

I've got a P3AT, as a backup/ankle gun. If I do a real good squeeze, I can hit fairly well out to 20 yards, but precision shooting is mighty hard with that weird set of sights they put on it.

Now my Colt 'Government Model' .380, well that's another matter. Buffalo Bore makes a .380 load that gets 1200 fps and the locked breach Colt can take it. Pity it's now a collectors item.

RAHatto · April 17, 2008, 09:36 PM

Not That I endorse having a go just because you have a BG's back. Because anything you do will have to be examined by someone spineless and wearing a expensive suit.
If you HAVE to stop said BG to save someone else life I believe you should (with or without) a gun.

Why would I say/do that
I am AD AF and have been for 10 years. I served as SF for the first 3 years of enlistment. I am more then a little familiar with the use of force model, and know if you can stop a imminent life or death situation of yourself or someone else you are justified to use minimum force needed to stop life or death situation.

I never said grab the heater and send a clip down range.

The run and call the cops is a given but if you can bring the victim and the BG's gun with you that would be better then leaving them to die.
However I am a SABC/CPR instructor so if the victim became a victim due to my lack of action or the BG was injured by the smash over the head with a __pick something hard_ I would administer necessary care to keep them alive until the EMT came with the police.

I do thoroughly plan on studying your rules and holding on to them for when I get back from round 3 at the war I will be buying a auto and going to class for CCW.

April 16, 2008, 04:15 PM	#26
Hoss 48 Member Join Date: April 11, 2008 Posts: 17	380 First, a 380 in my meager opinion is only a backup gun. But if its all you have and your life is in danger I agree with the others, go for center mass first, a shot to the spine will neutralize him even if it doesn't go through. The head is a good choice but it's hard to hit and the head shot is not as successful as it is on TV. Human skull is much harder than people realize. Many people have survived from a head shot. Unless you hit a vital organ or spine the 380 will probbably not immediately stop him anyway. Although I have seen people killed with a 22 calibre to the chest. It was a direct hit to the heart though.

April 17, 2008, 07:22 PM	#28
Deaf Smith Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2000 Location: Texican! Posts: 4,453	Maybe slowfire Wuchak, but slowfire is not the mission of a defensive pistol. __________________ “To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides

April 17, 2008, 07:53 PM	#30
GoSlash27 Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2004 Location: Iowa Posts: 3,118	The short version is if you're forced to engage with a .380 you engage. The .380 out of a 2.75" barrel (as wimpy as it is) will still make the FBI minimums with the correct ammo. If you can put the bullets where they need to go they will drop the attacker as well as anything else. http://www.brassfetcher.com/380acp%2...clothing).html Also a +1 on the surprising accuracy of the P3AT. I've shot groups well enough to pass the qualification for concealed carry in my county (79 cumulative 10 rds on an NRA B8 at 25 yds). Now having said that, if you don't trust the thing to get the job done then don't carry it. One sure way to die is to pull out a pistol and hesitate to pull the trigger because you're not confident in it. Deafsmith, I'm gonna test that hypothesis out this summer. I'll be running BUG class IDPA with a P3AT. It seems to doubletap pretty well in practice. __________________ Bill of Rights Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Not available in all states. Some restrictions apply.

April 17, 2008, 09:26 PM	#31
Deaf Smith Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2000 Location: Texican! Posts: 4,453	GoSlash, That's the way to find out just what you can do with what you have. I shoot IDPA to. Real good for a test bed of both your carry gun and your gear. I've got a P3AT, as a backup/ankle gun. If I do a real good squeeze, I can hit fairly well out to 20 yards, but precision shooting is mighty hard with that weird set of sights they put on it. Now my Colt 'Government Model' .380, well that's another matter. Buffalo Bore makes a .380 load that gets 1200 fps and the locked breach Colt can take it. Pity it's now a collectors item. __________________ “To you who call yourselves ‘men of peace,’ I say, you are not safe without men of action by your side” Thucydides

April 17, 2008, 09:36 PM	#32
RAHatto Member Join Date: June 12, 2005 Location: Liberty, SC Posts: 84	Bob Not That I endorse having a go just because you have a BG's back. Because anything you do will have to be examined by someone spineless and wearing a expensive suit. If you HAVE to stop said BG to save someone else life I believe you should (with or without) a gun. Why would I say/do that I am AD AF and have been for 10 years. I served as SF for the first 3 years of enlistment. I am more then a little familiar with the use of force model, and know if you can stop a imminent life or death situation of yourself or someone else you are justified to use minimum force needed to stop life or death situation. I never said grab the heater and send a clip down range. The run and call the cops is a given but if you can bring the victim and the BG's gun with you that would be better then leaving them to die. However I am a SABC/CPR instructor so if the victim became a victim due to my lack of action or the BG was injured by the smash over the head with a __pick something hard_ I would administer necessary care to keep them alive until the EMT came with the police. I do thoroughly plan on studying your rules and holding on to them for when I get back from round 3 at the war I will be buying a auto and going to class for CCW. __________________ Rick If you are Always looking at the big picture, you are Never concentrating on your front sight post.