The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 8, 2009, 04:10 PM   #1
dsv424
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx.
Posts: 266
How much lead between cleanings?

This has probably been covered by someone in the past but I couldn't find anything. I just started using lead bullets and I realize that you should clean your gun more often when shooting them. I also hear that if you shoot both in a single outing(copper and lead) that you should shoot the lead last. Is this true? And my main question is how many lead rounds do you shoot between cleanings? 50, 100, 150, more?
dsv424 is offline  
Old September 8, 2009, 04:34 PM   #2
rbf420
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2009
Posts: 166
im sure the answer will differ for each individual person. my opinion is clean it every time you use it regardless of how many you shoot to prevent excessive fouling.
rbf420 is offline  
Old September 8, 2009, 05:07 PM   #3
rwilson452
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 10, 2004
Location: Tioga co. PA
Posts: 2,647
Quote:
How much lead between cleanings?
This has probably been covered by someone in the past but I couldn't find anything. I just started using lead bullets and I realize that you should clean your gun more often when shooting them. I also hear that if you shoot both in a single outing(copper and lead) that you should shoot the lead last. Is this true? And my main question is how many lead rounds do you shoot between cleanings? 50, 100, 150, more?

I have fired in excess of 500 rounds of lead bullets in my 1991A1 before cleaning. I understand that with a Glock it needs to be cleaned more often because of the barrel rifling. There area lot of variables here. Including but not limited to, the type of rifling, hardness of lead, style of bullet, velocity, lube used. Just to name a few.

Yes shoot the copper first.
__________________
USNRET '61-'81
rwilson452 is offline  
Old September 8, 2009, 05:21 PM   #4
CraigC
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2001
Location: West Tennessee
Posts: 4,300
I will start by saying that I do not believe that a modern firearm using non-corrosive primers and smokeless powder should be cleaned every time it's used. I grew up brainwashed like most everybody else and finally began to question the practice when I read an article by John Taffin on the subject. I found that truly, the world does not end if you do not thoroughly clean your guns every time you shoot them. Quite the contrary, some guns prefer to be dirty, particularly .22's. I clean my guns when they need it. When accuracy deteriorates or when it affects function. Otherwise, they are simply wiped down. Such is the lesson learned from custom gunsmiths and sixgunners FAR more knowledgeable than myself. I'm sure some folks will denounce my statements as pure heresy and use words like "lazy". Well gents, I've done it both ways and I have to tell you that life is much better this way.

If anything you should clean more often with jacketed bullets. Jacketed bullets will always leave copper fouling in the bore. With cast bullets, if the hardness of the bullet is correct for the velocity it's pushed to and the diameter is matched to your gun, there should be very little if any leading. Mostly you will just see some streaking of bullet lube. Lead deposits will typically get to a point and stop. At which point there is no reason to clean it out every time you shoot. I use cast bullets almost exclusively. I shoot enough .44Mag to justify buying a Dillon 650 setup for the cartridge and cannot remember the last time I had to clean lead from a bore, sixgun or rifle.
CraigC is offline  
Old September 8, 2009, 05:28 PM   #5
QBall45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 5, 2008
Location: South Central Minnesota
Posts: 584
I shoot about ever weekend. Usually 50-250rds. This is my CCW. So I try to clean every Sunday afternoon. If I miss a week, no big deal. Pull the slide re-oil and shoot. Then clean up Sunday afternoon.

All I shoot is hardcast lead. Cast myself from wheelweights. I get very little if any leading.

Don't be afraid. Lead is your friend. Its cheap.

Yes shoot your jacketed before lead.
QBall45 is offline  
Old September 8, 2009, 06:44 PM   #6
LHB1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 25, 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 1,545
And still another view, which proves that there is more than one way to do something if several of us use different techniques with good results. My preference is to clean pistols after every use and ESPECIALLY before changing from jacketed to cast bullets or vice versa (for those who shoot both types). Some people will say it isn't necessary but I think it improves results and prevents potential problems. YMMV. I have shot cast lead bullets almost exclusively in all my pistols for the last 45 years and prefer them to jacketed bullets, even for hunting game with the .44 Mag.
__________________
Good shooting and be safe.
LB
LHB1 is offline  
Old September 8, 2009, 06:56 PM   #7
jepp2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 24, 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 1,476
I think there are too many variables to say the barrel needs to be cleaned after xx rounds of lead ammunition. Shooting swaged lead bullets at 1000 fps will result in severe leading. Shooting hard cast bullets too slow can result in more leading than higher velocity will.

Check your barrel, you will quickly determine how quickly lead is accumulating, and if it continues to build, or just builds to a point and stops.

I normally clean after firing a few hundred rounds. That is normally how many I shoot when I go to the range. But I am not cleaning because I feel the accumulated residue is going to cause any significant problems. I am cleaning to inspect for wear, anything unusual, and to remove and replace the lubricant. Keeping clean fresh lube on moving parts reduces wear.
jepp2 is offline  
Old September 8, 2009, 08:18 PM   #8
Farmland
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2009
Posts: 869
I find that some guns handle lead bullets a little better than others. I know my revolvers require cleaning after each time I shoot lead bullets. I can get a lot more lead down my automatics.

I do clean my barrels after every use just because I think that is better. However their are a lot of variables that does make a difference in lead build up such as bullet type and hardness combined with powders.

No I'm not an expert on lead build up I just can gauge what works well with the guns and components that I use.

From sources that I have read most of them say not to shoot jacketed after lead. I will leave to final word to people that understand these things better than I do, but it makes sense.

As for the Glock there is a lot of writing on the subject of lead and the Glock barrel. I'm not going to say that the Glock factory barrel is unsafe with lead whoever I have made the personal decision to buy and use an aftermarket barrel for shooting lead.

I do know that my Colt 1911 45 can shoot in excessive of 300 rounds of lead with no problems as can my Beretta 96. To be honest I never had the need to shoot high numbers at one time through my other handguns. However I would suspect that as long as the barrels don't collect lead like a magnet then the numbers should be a non factor in most handguns.

I do suspect that some with more knowledge on the subject of lead bullets can offer a better opinion, mine is from personal use and it just might be the case I am using the right combination in the pistols and the wrong combination in my revolvers.
Farmland is offline  
Old September 8, 2009, 08:39 PM   #9
GP100man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 1, 2007
Location: Tabor City , NC.
Posts: 1,969
when to clean

when accuracy falls off or function is affected , or when it makes ya feel better

as for shootin lead last i would say yes , if ya lead the barrel the jacketed just irons it out it does not remove it as some want to believe.

i have revolvers that have never shot a jacketed bullet other than the proof loads at the factory.
__________________
GP100man

Last edited by GP100man; September 15, 2009 at 07:19 AM.
GP100man is offline  
Old September 9, 2009, 07:12 AM   #10
Magnum Wheel Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2006
Location: Southern Minnesota
Posts: 9,333
well... you've already gotten some really good answers, even though they don't all agree...

I fall into that "lazy group"... my personal opinion, is that if everything is right with cast bullets, your gun won't require any more cleaning than with jacketed bullets...

1st make sure you are using hard alloy cast bullets... ( the only trouble I've ever had with leading was from swagged soft lead bullets )... or make sure your velocities are not pushing the soft lead too high, & that you have plenty of the correct good lube on your bullets... I like gas checks on hotter loads, but some of the harder alloys, & heat treating is said to eliminate the need for gas checks in all but the hottest loads... make sure your bullets re a few .001's over size of the normal jacketed bullets

next, make sure your bore is completely "clean" the lead will want to stick to any residual copper fouling... I like to soak my barrels on occasion ( about every time I clean them, which is by far, not every time I shoot them ) with a penitrating oil over night... the special copper fouling removers work particularly well, & you'll be suprised how much green you can remove from what most would think is a clean barrel...

when I've had issues in the past, things like tight cylinders, rough bores, or improperly lubed bullets, or previosly copper fouled barrels have been the problem, not the cast bullets...
__________________
In life you either make dust or eat dust...
Magnum Wheel Man is offline  
Old September 9, 2009, 01:12 PM   #11
dsv424
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 2008
Location: Dallas, Tx.
Posts: 266
Thx for everyones advise on this. Really appreciate it. One other question comes to mind after reading Magnum Wheel Man's post. The lead bullets I bought were Kead Brand. Has anyone used these before? Not sure if this is a local company in just the Dallas area, since its my first purchase of lead bullets. I guess I could look around the internet, but if anyone has some personal experience that would be appreciated.
dsv424 is offline  
Old September 9, 2009, 02:18 PM   #12
Unclenick
Staff
 
Join Date: March 4, 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 21,022
The lube on cast bullets winds up on everything in the gun and tends to offer it some protection. Most years some friends and I get together and over several days we will run about 750 rounds a day, each, through our 1911's, not cleaning until the end of the week unless one starts to fail or gets stiff. Under that circumstance I've shot over 3,000 rounds of 200 grain cast H&G 68 type bullets through my 1911 without cleaning or suffering function failures. It gets pretty caked up, but seems to keep the cake pushed out of the way of anything critical.

The bore in my 1911 I is worn so smooth that it never builds up enough lead to interfere with accuracy, even after 3,000 rounds. I've seen some revolvers with constrictions in the barrels where they screw into the frame, and these can pick up quite a bit of lead. If the bore is rough, it happens even more easily. Accuracy is generally poor in these guns and gets worse when the build up is in place. At that point, cleaning is necessary. You can prevent the problem by firelapping constrictions out and the bore surface smooth.

As was mentioned earlier, copper is really worse. It can accumulate in rough bores to the point of deteriorating accuracy in just a couple dozen rounds. Occasionally you see a rifle with so much copper built up from inadequate cleaning that it starts seeing pressure signs with factory ammo. That used to be common with the old cupro-nickel jackets, and isn't so common these days, but it can eventually happen without proper periodic cleaning. Again, firelapping goes a long way toward prevention by smoothing the bore. Since no protective lube is on jacketed bullets to coat the bore, you don't want to leave a bore unoiled after firing bullets with jackets. I'm in the habit of cleaning after every use of jacketed bullets to prevent build-up from starting.
__________________
Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member
CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor
NRA Certified Rifle Instructor
NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle
Unclenick is offline  
Old September 9, 2009, 06:30 PM   #13
Russ5924
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2005
Posts: 1,874
A friend after shooting his cast bullets always shoots some FMJ he says to clean out the lead. I was always told don't do it if badly leaded can build up excessive pressures. That may be the main reason they to say to shoot the lead bullets last
__________________
Russ5924
Russ5924 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.05067 seconds with 10 queries