Advise/ opinions on Handgun Brass

[ipscchef]

Hi everybody!

I am getting ready to plunk down some money on brass for my handguns and I thought it would be a good idea to get some feedback from you guys about what you do or do not favor as far as who's brass to get.

I will start by saying that this is just pretty much going to be used for "Standard Loads" in .38, .357, .41Mag,.44Mag, .45acp, and .45 Colt. None of which is going to be loaded "over the top", except maybe some of the .45 Colt stuff may be at the high end for a Ruger, i.e.; 300gr. @ 1100fps.

I will be purchasing at least 1000 pieces of each, which for me, is a fairly substantial investment, and while I believe that most everyone makes a decent product these days, I want to buy the best brass as far as lifespan for reloading as I can get for my money. I usualy just get Winchester brass out of habit but would like to hear from anyone who has a valid reason weather or not I should be looking at Starline, Hornady, or someone else. I understand that there are differences in wall thickness and other variables, but my main concern is that I will be getting brass that will last through many reloads.
My thinking is that I am willing to pay more for brass that will hold up to several reloadings. I have had good results with the Win. brass and Starline, but would like to get feedback from some of you guys who have had much more experience than I have.

If it matters, a lot of what I will be loading in my handguns with this brass will be hard cast stuff, mainly with either Keith style or the Veral Smith WLN
type bullets. So Roll Crimping will be a part of my loading procedure in the revolver rounds, which will require more annealing of the brass than the taper crimps associated with the pistol rounds, I assume.

I count on this purchase of brass to last me a long time, so I am looking for any bits of wisdom to make this expenditure count!

I have been handloading for many years, but I want to stress that I am NOT an expert by any means, so any advice is greatly appreciated.

As always, thanks for your time and knowlege.

Bill "Willy" Henderson

[sourdough44]

Straight wall handgun loading is fairly simple in the brass prep department. Win or Starline would both be fine choices. With some I don't have a problem buying used brass, though if your fairly new you cut down on potential problems by going with new, fresh brass. With used you get all types & may have an issue or 2.

As an example say you get 9mm or 40 s&w(not in your choices) that has been 'Glocked'. That could be an issue when it's tried in certain chambers. I recently bought 400+ 9mm cases, used at a good price. I already see a fair bulge in some of them. Just another thing to keep an eye on.

[ZeSpectre]

Personally I reload a lot of carefully inspected range pickup brass. However the few times I've purchased new virgin brass (mostly 10mm) it's always been Starline.

[Locoweed]

+1 on the Star Line brass. It's my first choice when buying pistol brass.

[Shootest]

For light cast (target) loads once fired is the best way to go. Doing so will allow you to buy around twice as much (if not more) brass for the same price. New brass will NOT last twice as long as once fired. I keep my new (starline) brass for HOT loads, then it goes into the mixed target load pile. BBR brass, not cheap but great (mostly same headstamp) brass.
http://www.bbrbrass.com/index.php/pistol-brass.html

[Waldog]

If your gonna' start collecting range brass as reloaders inevitably do, be sure to avoid S&B and Amerc brass. They have very tight primer pockets and is PITA to load. Also, don't bother reloading boxer primed steel or aluminum cases. And, be aware that some range brass will have crimped in primers, WCC specifically. Stick with Win, Fed, Rem, Blaser Brass, CCI, Speer.

[Doodlebugger45]

Starline is my hands down favorite when it comes to .45 Colt. Same with .44 mag too. I have quite a bit of Winchester brass for both of those and it's pretty good, but not quite as good. I absolutely avoid Remington for those 2 calibers. It is so thin that I can barely feel it going through the sizer and it doesn't grip the bullet as tight as the other 2. Yeah it holds up just fine, it's just not as consistent. Interesting, I have had a few experiences with Federal brass in 45 Colt and .44 mag and I don't know why, but it is the only stuff that I have ever split the necks on.

About 6 months ago I actually bough 100 new pieces of MagTech brass for both 44 mag and 45 Colt. I was dubious about it when I bought it, but actually using it, I am fairly impressed so far.

[TXGunNut]

I've had good luck with RP and Starline brass in 45 Colt but will buy Starline if I can. Loaded WW brass for years in .38 spl PPC loads with good results. Autoloaders I prefer whatever I can pick up, any major headstamp meets my needs.

[KnobCreek]

Once fired brass, is really the way to go, espically if you not going for hot loads. As previously said you can get twice as much brass as you can for new brass for the price. Once fired will last just as long. If a new is a must have - starline has been solid.

[ipscchef]

Thanks for all of the input guys, much appreciated.

Like I stated, I have been handloading for quite a while now, but do not consider myself an "expert" and I am always looking to gain insight from any place I can.

I did not consider buying once fired brass until you all brought it up.
Shootist; thanks for the link, I will look them up tomorow.
Most of what I shoot does not fall into the "Hot" category except for some really warm .41 Mag and .45 Colt stuff I load just in case of a T-Rex attack. Most all of my other stuff is loaded to fairly normal specs, although what I load for SD in mine and my Wifes guns trends toward the higher end, esp. in her Model 10, 586, and Blackhawk, so the once fired stuff sounds like just the ticket. I have noticed that the Buffalo Bore factory ammo for my Guide Gun in 45-70 uses Starline brass, so that says something about their quality and strength. This is the brand I have decided on for any large amounts,(for me, anyway) of virgin brass purchases.

Doodlebugger, first off, How are you doin'? Long time no talk to. One of the reasons I started this thread was because of just what you said. I had some Rem brass in .45 Colt that was once fired factory stuff I got from a freind and it seemed really weak, I ended up squishing some of it in my press. I thought it was me at first, but when I went to my WW brass at the same overall length, I had no problems. What you said seems to validate my experience.

I guess until now I have not paid enough attention to the differences in the brass I was using, which is why I wanted to hear from you guys.

Not to hijack my own thread, but since someone mentioned range brass, I recently got a hold of a bunch of Military range pickup brass in .556 that was given to me by a friend from down at Norfolk. I would say that the bags he gave me add up to at least 7000 rounds:, mostly Lake City stamps on it!! It all seems to be in very good shape, save for some minor neck dings, and it ain't real shiny, but both of those issues can be fixed
Am I correct in assuming that this should all be Boxer primed and Mil crimped?
None of this would be Berdan primed, would it? I have not had a chance to mess with it yet, but my buddy was present when the rounds were fired and said it all came from M-4's and M249 SAW's. Would there be any difference in the Rifle ammo from the SAW stuff, as far as crimp, pressures, OAL, etc.?
This brass will be used to load up for my Bushmaster and Mini 14 for "Zombie Defence" etc.

Again, thanks to all for your time and knowlege, I hope I can return the favor sometime.

Willy

[Jim243]

The Lake City brass will have to have the primer pockets swedged becasue mil cases have the primer crimped in. Also the case walls will be thicker and internal area smaller than commercial brass, so you will need to reduce the amount of powder you will be putting into the case, becase of less space. Not a lot but starting at min (-0.3 grains) would be a good idea.

Other wise the brass will work fine.

Jim

The 249 brass should be pretty beat up, machine guns are not kind to brass. The army does not expect to reuse the cases. I know waste in Government spending. (LOL)

[Marco Califo]

Would there be any difference in the Rifle ammo from the SAW stuff, as far as crimp, pressures, OAL, etc.?

Machine guns tend to have loose chambers to facilitate easy feeding. The brass gets "puffed out" a bit. I have been starting with once fired 308 that went through M60's, and the initial sizing takes a LOT of leverage. But once that is done, it loads just fine several times at least.

[spacecoast]

For standard handgun loads, no point in not buying some range brass from those who sell it on TFL. .38spc, .357 and .45ACP are inexpensive. Better yet, find a range where you can pick some up for free, works for me.

[Sevens]

Hey Willy!
I will have to be about the 12th guy to strongly recommend that you buy used range brass in lots. If you don't find someone here at TFL with what you are looking for, there are many folks selling it on The High Road, TFL's sister site. There's one guy in particular that is a friend of mine and he's a fine guy to deal with... his user name on THR is "Evan Price" and you can work with him in confidence.

I have lots of opinions on regular pistol brass so I'll share it here and hope you can pick up something from it.

First off is the eternal nickel vs brass debate. Most folks will tell you that nickel will give mouth splits before brass will and I would agree with that... but that's much more related to how firmly you crimp, IMO. I use nickel exclusively in .38 Spl and while I do find myself tossing a piece on occasion, I've been using the same nickel .38 that I bought in a lot back in 1992. Really. Especially in .38, where stress is low, the nickel brass not only looks better and lasts nearly as long, it's just easier to deal with. Cleans up easier, loads and ejects easier, I just love the stuff in both .38 and .357.

As for brands/head stamps, I agree that Starline is very good stuff... but if you aren't buying new, the only starline you'll get is from guys who LOST it by accident.

There is one head stamp that makes every other piece of formed brass in the history of the world look good: A-Merc. A-Merc is the single worst brass ever to exist on planet Earth. Avoid it. Recycle it. It's really not worth your time to goof with. Everything else is better. A-Merc is the absolute finest example of what brass should NEVER be. It's that bad. It's comical.

Winchester and Federal seem to be equal IMO. Some of the newer Federal in .380 and 9mm is all ATK brass, so it's the exact same as others marked CCI or Blazer. It's extruded brass and works well.

I have found that recent manufacture PMC brass is not of high quality. Especially in .45 Auto, I have found that it's thin and will wrinkle under stress. I still use it in 9mm, but I don't like it in .45. Older PMC and "ELD" marked brass from the 80s and 90s is quality stuff, I have a decent supply of it in 10mm and it's worked like a champ. ("ELD" is El Dorado, a former PMC brand)

CBC-Magtech brass isn't bad, but it offers more resistance than most other in the flare die, which says to me that the mouth thickness is on the heavier side. This may be good for longevity, but there's also more stress when you work it. I would take CBC-Magtech brass, but it's not my favorite.

R-P brass is one of the biggest impostors in the entire industry. With the classic Remington name behind it, you go in thinking that you have some the best stuff ever made. Well, those days are gone, at least in pistol brass. I still use quite a bit of it in .45, but most of my R-P .45 is from the '90s. I use a bunch of it in .38, but again... from the early 90s. R-P in 9mm seems to work okay... but in .380 and 10mm, it's junk brass. Case mouths are extremely thin and while it doesn't seem to hurt the life span of the brass (the thin mouths don't seem to crack), the problem is case mouth tension on the bullet. In .380 and 10mm, I can't get proper grip on the bullet and the problem is exacerbated with certain jacketed bullets that are on the slimmer side of the scale. (Nosler, for example, is a horrible combination with R-P pistol brass) Case mouth tension is phenomenally important when talking about semi-auto pistol ammo. Unintended bullet setback, especially when you don't realize it's happening can definitely lead to catastrophic failure.

If I were using R-P brass in semi-auto pistols, I would try to use them for cast lead bullet loads where I know the bullet is typically a thousandth over the jacketed size. That helps to make up for crappy case mouth grip on the bullet.

S&B does have tight primer pockets as mentioned, so if you prime with some kind of automated press, you might get hung up with those. Otherwise, it seems to work fairly well.

I'll probably think of something else... but that's it for now!

[jhansman]

If you are going to buy new handgun brass, you can't do much better than Starline; my second choice would be Winchester.

[Ozzieman]

Back in the 80’s when I started loading 44 special I purchased 1000 cases from Starline.
Of that 1000 I have thrown away probably less than a dozen and they all have been reloaded 10 times or more. I grant you that they are have all been target loads and I bell the cases the absolute minimum.
With my experience + 1 for starline

[ipscchef]

Thanks for the info. I concur with your statement about RP brass, which is actualy kind of why I started this thread. I have been loading for myself and a couple of friends for a while now, and we kind of came "full circle" in that we are back to shooting our .45 Colt SA clones frequently. I am currently making up a load for all around use with the 270gr Keith bullet from Leadhead Bullets, which by the way, if you have not tried them I highly reccomend, everything I have gotten from them is of very high quality. I am putting them on top of 9gr. of Unique. Anyway, a lot of the brass we have collected to reload was RP, and in loading up the cast bullets with it, it acted very fragile. At first I thought my dies were out of adjustment, but it became obvious that the RP brass is VERY THIN. It was crumpling way to easily, whereas the Win. brass, at the same length and with the same bullet was not having any problems.

Again, my goal is to stock up on Handgun Brass that will be mostly loaded in the "normal" range.

I have not encountered any of this "A-Merc" brass, but if I do I will avoid it like the plague!

Funny you mention Nickel plated brass. I just found a few boxes of Federal .357 nickle plated brass that I forgot I had, and am going to load it up for the Wifes' 686, although it will be more in the .38+P range than true .357 pressures.

The once fired range brass seems to make a lot of sense, I will contact your friend at The High Road this weekend and see what he can do for me. Thanks again for the info.

Stay in touch,

Willy

[Civil War Life]

Good to hear all the positive comments on Starr Line brass. I bought a bunch from Midway mainly due to the cost. Glad to hear I made a good purchase. I have bought a lot of once fired 9mm and it seems OK it is RP.