.38 Specials in a .357

[Uncle Buck]

I read elsewhere about a guy who who talked about "fire rings" in the cylinder of his .357 from shooting too many .38 special loads. (He said if you shoot to many .38's eventually you develop fire rings and will have trouble loading .357 rounds.)

Although I am familiar with shooting .38 Specials out of the .357 revolvers, I had never heard of this. Wouldn't a good cleaning take care of this problem? Or does it only become a problem when you shoot super hot (+P) .38 loads?

I shoot mainly .38 specials in my .357 revolvers and have not noticed this happening. When I am done shooting for the day, I usually give the gun a good scrubbing and get all the powder/lead residue out.

Have you heard of this or seen it?

[aarondhgraham]

Because you clean your guns after shooting them,,,
So do I and I have never gotten a buildup in the cylinders.

Now my Dad's pistol on the other hand,,,
You couldn't drive a .357 cartridge into his gun with a hammer.

Pop is of the "they're just trying to sell you cleaning supplies" school of gun handling,,,
I've been cleaning his guns for him since I was 9 years old,,,
It was my grandfather who taught me to do this,,,
All of his very old guns looked brand new.

I did buy a used .357 that had seen a lot of .38 special ammo and little cleaning,,,
It took a lot of Hoppe's #9, a bronze brush, and a hand drill on slow speed,,,
I like to never got all of the crud out of that cylinder.

So yes it can happen,,,
Regular cleaning ensures it won't.

.

[dgludwig]

"Carbon rings" caused by the regular firing of .38 Special rounds through a .357 Magnum cylinder, coupled with non-regular cleaning, are common and, if sufficiently pronounced, they will eventually prevent the chambering of .357 Magnum rounds. Once the rings develop, they can be difficult to remove. In extreme cases, I recommend using a small amount of copper Chore Boy, wrapped around a worn out brush and dipped in a good lead-removing solvent and scrubbed vigorously through each cylinder.
Good, regular cleaning habits will prevent the build-up of powder residue rings.

[kraigwy]

I do a lot of 38 shooting in my 357 revolvers. I found the best method in cleaning out the residue left by the 38, is to bell the mouth of a 357 case where it can bearly be pushed into the chamber. The belled case cuts the residue out. Then clean per normal.

Its worked for me a long time now.

[BigJimP]

Like you, I clean my guns every time I shoot them ... so I don't have a problem shooting .38's in my .357 mags either.

[James K]

I think the OP's source was too lazy to clean his revolver. But when the old timers talked about "fire rings", they didn't mean carbon or lead buildup, they meant erosion and corrosion of the chamber ahead of the case mouth.

That is not of much concern today in the revolver situation, what with a combination of stainless steel cylinders and non-corrosive primers, but I have seen it in old .22 LR rifles that were fired with lots of corrosive .22 Shorts. That ring is in the metal, and no amount of scrubbing will remove it. It can be deep enough to keep .22 LR cases from extracting.

Jim

[Sevens]

I do a lot of 38 shooting in my 357 revolvers. I found the best method in cleaning out the residue left by the 38, is to bell the mouth of a 357 case where it can bearly be pushed into the chamber. The belled case cuts the residue out. Then clean per normal.

Its worked for me a long time now.

That is one very slick idea!

[Uncle Buck]

Jim, I think you may be correct on that. I had forgotten about the corrosive primers and powders that used to be common place.

Carbon build-up was what I was originally thinking, but I could not understand why a really good scrubbing and cleaning would not correct the problem.

Thanks guys (Again!)

[stevieboy]

It's easy for carbon to build up in those chambers. And, I clean after every trip to the range. That is no justification for firing only magnum rounds. But, it is a warning to clean thoroughly. I end every cleaning session by shining a flashlight into each chamber while I inspect the chamber. If I find carbon rings despite my best efforts (and I have, from time to time), I clean the cylinder all over again.

[Florida Cracker]

I shoot pretty much exclusively 38 in my K-frame Model 13 357 and had never heard of this happening. That's good information even though I always clean after the range.

This forum is great

[salvadore]

Once again, I shoot gobs of .38s of all pressures and am a casual cleaner, and have never had a problem chambering .357s. To be fair, I have pretty much stopped using .357 brass, but believe I have a hundred reloads somewhere downstairs that I will try to chamber in all my .357s, just to make sure.

[Tuzo]

If you are a reloader then the carbon ring can be eliminated by shooting 38 loads in a 357 magnum case. This has been discussed by several TFL shooters and is a good solution for avoiding the ring while shooting milder 38 and 38+ loads in a 357 magnum revolver.

[44 AMP]

"Fire rings" does refer to erosion of the chamber caused by extensive firing of a shorter cased round.

This was a moderately common problem last century primarily with .22s, due to corrosive priming, the mild steel (often without any heat treating) common to cheap .22s, and the large amount of ammo that could be shot. Centerfire guns, primarily revolvers which had several calibers with short and long cases that could be fired in the long chambers seldom had as bad a problem, because of the better steels, and the simple fact that the cost of centerfire ammo usually meant that they did not get shot nearly as much.

One would, from time to time run across a revolver with a visible "fire ring" but only rarely one cut deeply enough to prevent extraction of the longer fired brass. They might be a bit sticky, but usually would still work. Finding one shot enough to cut the chambers badly enough to prevent extraction via normal means was rare. It did happen, though.

With modern steel, ammo, and particularly in .357 Mag, the heat treating of the steel, I don't think fire rings are a likely situation nowdays. You would spend several guns worth of money on ammo long before fire rings are likely to be a problem.

Carbon rings/crud buildup, on the other hand are a completely different issue, and one easily dealt with with proper cleaning.

[Colorado Redneck]

My favorite practice load (and not a bad PD load either) is 110 gr speer hollow point in a 357 case over unique. Velocity is about 1200 fps out of a 3inch model 60. That equates to 350 ft. lb of muzzle energy which should work just fine for knocking down an intruder. The recoil is manageable and the round is fun to shoot at the range. Hotter than a 38 special +p but milder than a full house 357.

[zippy13]

Originally Posted by 44 AMP

"Fire rings" does refer to erosion of the chamber caused by extensive firing of a shorter cased round.

That's the condition I thought the OP was referencing. Is this type of ring caused exclusively by erosion from firing short brass, or is there also corrosion because of uncleaned residue rings?

[Straightshooter629]

A thorough cleaning with a quality solvent and a GOOD brass brush after each shooting session, and it will not be a problem.

[Jimmy10mm]

I had heard of that with 44spl/44mag but not 38/357 . Makes sense that it could occur in that instance as well. I've shot many more rounds of 38 than 357 in any gun chambered for that caliber that I've owned. Like everyone else that posted, I clean my guns after every time I fire them. Except for my Glock 23. I clean that every few years whether it needs it or not.

[SuperRuger]

Cleaning,cleaning,ceaning. Did i mention cleaning is the important thing here. Proper cleaning and you will never see this problem. Proper cleaning in my humble opinion means everytime you shoot it, clean it no mater if you only shoot 10 rounds or 100 rounds, EVERYTIME. If you love and respect your firearm this will be a ritual with you anyway and you will be able to have the peace of mind that problems like this can be avoided and you will only read about the problems that can occur from it.

[Slamfire]

I purchased this M586 from a shooting buddy. He claimed to have run 40K to 65K worth of 148’s LWC 2.7 grs Bullseye 38 Special brass practicing and shooting for PPC. He also said the thing was exceptionally accurate. That it is.

The edges at the end of the barrel are completely rounded, so I believe the high mileage claims. The cylinder also locks up tight. The mainspring was weak and needed replacing.

I took the thing to the range today and just cleaned it up. Examining the cylinder there is no evidence of erosion before the cylinder throat.

I don’t like shooting 38’s in 357 chambers. When I did that I developed lead rings right in front of the case. These lead rings are hard to scrub out and made 357 case extraction difficult.

So I shoot 38’s in 38’s, and 357’s in 357’s. It is an easy rule to remember.

[Sevens]

I'm trying to add up what you just said -- please clarify if I get any of it wrong.

The previous owner put forty to sixty five thousand rounds of .38 Special through this revolver... but you just "cleaned it up."

And after all those .38 Specials, there's no problem with it.

But still, you stick to your axiom of .38 in .38 and .357 in .357.

That's fine -- it's your stuff. But is it any kind of necessary?
And wouldn't 40,000 to 65,000 be a pretty significant test to determine whether or not your method is necessary at all, in any way?

When I was in my formative years, all the local cops shot PPC at the club I belonged to. Lots of 'em, and most all of them were shooting 586's and 686's. Every weekend, without fail. Tens and hundreds of thousands of rounds, all .38's in .357's. I'm pretty sure all of those guns are fine, too.

[SuperRuger]

Slamfire you only made our point for us. Obviously the gun you bought was poorly kept up and the whole point of cleaning is that if you do it after every use and the rings never develope and they are NOT hard to clean at all. The 357 is designed for 38's as well so don't blame the gun for improper maintenance, you are only limiting yourself with the only 38's in 38's rule and you just eliminated the versitility of the gun. Do your own test and by a new gun or a well maintained gun and clean it after each use and i bet you never see this problem. In 99% of the cases where this occurs it can be directly attributed to poor maintenance.

[Sport45]

95% or more of the time, I'm shooting 158gr cast SWC in my .357 revolvers. When I finish with a few .357mag loads I've never had any problem with them dropping in completely or extracting. They get a thorough cleaning every 2-500 rounds. The lead and carbon doesn't build up so fast that you have to clean after shooting .38 before you can shoot .357. At least I haven't experienced that.

I've never seen the "fire rings" described in the OP, but I don't doubt they exist.

[DiscoRacing]

Have heard of it... never have trouble with it myself... shoot 38s all the time and have never had a bit of trouble loading 357 then.

[dgludwig]

So I shoot 38’s in 38’s, and 357’s in 357’s. It is an easy rule to remember.

If you're worried about powder residue rings developing after firing .38 Special rounds in revolvers chambered for the .357 Magnum and you'd still like to shoot .38 Special loads, you can always reload using .357 Magnum brass with .38 Special powder doses.

[Old Grump]

Got tired of having to rebuild my 357 every couple of years so I laid in a few thousand rounds of 38 spcl and got the dies for them. I always did spend more time on the cylinder than I did the barrel just because I once had a case separation in my 44 mag after shooting a couple of boxes of 44 spcl. I won't give on my 44 spcl or my 38 spcl so I clean, and clean and clean, its a habit and really isn't that big a deal or that time consuming when its a habit.