Do you REALLY need to clean your rifle?

[603Country]

I was going to put in my 2 cents, but tobnpr said it for me. It depends on the rifle. And, I suppose it depends on your determination of when accuracy degrades.

My 220 needs cleaning in about 25 rounds.
My 223 takes about 50 to 75 rounds.
My 270...I'm not really sure
My 260 never seems to need cleaning.

[Machineguntony]

I just bought a Remington 700 PSP about a week ago, and I've put about 400 rounds through it. I had yet to clean it.

It had been shooting about 1 to 1.25 inch groups at 100 yards.

I have a shooting buddy who has been bugging me to clean it. Tonight at the range, he kept bugging me to clean it so that the rifle would properly season (I mean, it's not a cast iron skillet).

I kept ignoring his advice. I told him that it's a bolt action. Other than the trigger group and the magazine well, it only has one moving part, so there's no point in cleaning it.

Finally I caved in about halfway through the shooting session, right at the range, I ran a brush through it about 20 times with copper fouler and CLP and with some oil in the barrel and on the bolt.

The groups then shrunk significantly to this...

I couldn't believe it.

[RaySendero]

I will always clean and lube a new to me firearm before shooting it!!!

[Clark]

IMR-4166 has an anti Copper fouling coating.
I shot deer with 300 Win Mag Krieger 125 gr NBT 66 gr 3.24" ~65kpsi 3200 fps in 2015
I shot deer with 6.5-06 Shilen Select match ratchet 120 gr NBT 50.7 gr 3.34" ~65kpsi 3200 fps in 2015
Before the season began I practiced a couple weeks out to 600 yards, as I usually do.

That was the most shooting, least cleaning season I have had.

Right now I am building for 2016; 7mmRM Benchmark, 25-06 Shilen, and 6mmBR Pac Nor polygonal super match.

My plan for October 2016 is to use IMR-4166 and IMR-4451, with anti Copper coating, to again do less cleaning.

[JeepHammer]

At first I thought this was a troll or joke...

Yes, you should clean often, and always before storage.
Any crud collects moisture, no matter if there is corrosives present or not, moisture alone is corrosive.

Any particles of any kind are abrasive, wearing away metal mating parts.

There is a difference between 'Bore Fouling' shots, and not cleaning.
In the military, we started with a clean, oiled rifle, fired some bore shots until the groups tightened up, let the rifle cool and check for 'Cold Bore' zero,
Then set off into the field operation.

Again, 'Cold Bore' & 'Clean Bore' are not the same thing.

About all competition shooters, including bench shooters, swab or brush barrels from time to time.
Most (if not all) have found groups tighten up when swabbed after 10 or twenty rounds.

Sub-MOA shooters have a large time, if not money investment in their rifles,
Cleaning simply protects your investment.

[JeepHammer]

As for a 'New' rifle, barrel break-in is always important.
Scratches, pits, tool chatter marks are in every barrel.

You have a choice to hand lap the barrel, removing the defects,
Or you can clean the crap out of the barrel, fire a couple of rounds, clean again, repeat for about 100 rounds or so...

Copper will fill in the voids, become 'Plastic' when the next round is fired, and expand the defect even further in a lot of cases...
Firing, cleaning, firing, cleaning, ect. will round over sharp edges, remove burrs, wear away high spots, ect. without adding to the problem, as the surface of the bore work hardens/compresses...

Shooting the crap out of a brand new barrel is a really bad idea.

I don't have an 'Opinion', I have a bore scope...

[603Country]

Some folks believe in barrel break-in and some don't. I don't.

But we still need to take care of the bore and clean it every now and then. Some foul faster than others, so they need cleaning more often. Some shoot best after a little copper lay down, but I have a couple of rifles with after market barrels that just don't collect much copper.

And, from personal experience over decades, I don't worry at all about moisture being collected by barrel fouling. And if I ever did worry about it, my Dad's rifle would have changed my thinking. He had a Ruger 77 tang safety rifle in 270. We kids bought it for him in the 1980's. He hunted constantly, morning and evening, in rain and sleet and heat and mud, and he NEVER cleaned it. Never punched the bore. Not once in all those years. I think I gave it a mercy cleaning every ten years or so. Well, when he passed on, I took the rifle to clean it up for Dad's favorite grandson. I put a decent scope on it, cleaned the bore and all parts of that well worn rifle, loaded up some rounds with a not to hot starting load and shot clover leafs. That old rifle was amazingly accurate. Thirty something years of abuse, and the old rifle shot wonderfully.

So I don't clean as often as I once did. I clean when a rifle that should be shooting tight groups starts shooting less decent groups, and I know the problem isn't my shooting.

But that's just me. You guys clean as often as you want. Won't hurt the rifle.

[Clark]

I have a theory about barrel break in efficacy: In the long run, it does not matter if you believe in it or not.

The believer's process is to clean out the Copper more often until it does not foul so fast.
The non believer's process is to clean when the barrel needs it.

These two processes should produce barrels with the same performance after enough time. They might even be the same process... depending on what you believe.

[RC20]

I did not think of .22 rifles. Yes, I cleaned my old squirrel gun a lot. The old .22 ammunition was just lead and fouled the barrel in a hurry.

22 seems to be in an area of their own. They are lead and low velocity relatively speaking and certain vs any modern center fire (2500 fps and up).

Their seems to be an opinion you can damage the throat area with too much cleaning. Right now I am letting my CZ452 run wild to see what happen.

I would guess 500 rounds through it since last cleaned and it will still punch a hole with a 10 shot group 50 yds and the right ammo (and does good with a lot of ammo)

Oddly sometimes it will shoot better after one type of ammo then switch to one not so good but does better for a while.

That said I did get a .17 caliber Jag to keep it away from the throat and rifling as much as possible.

[Eazyeach]

I clean my guns as often as I shower.
Yearly wether we need it or not.

[berettaprofessor]

I must clean...every time before I puts them up...the Precious must stay clean and oiled.

(has nothing to do with whether it needs cleaning).

[JeepHammer]

I clean EVERYTHING, fired or not, about 4 times a year, and put them back in the racks...
This allows me to remember damage or changes I wanted to do as much as making sure they were clean & not rusting.

Cleaning the non-used firearms makes me evaluate if I really need/want every single thing in the rack...
Keeps the 'Inventory' relevant.
I keep a lot of 'Antique' firearms, brass frame muzzle loading pistols, Stevens 'Favorite' & 'Crackshot' rifles, ect,
Not high dollar collector items, but things handed down in the family,
So I keep them clean, in good working order and ready to hand down to the next generation.

I'm not part of the 'Disposable' generation,
I was raised by depression era grandparents, nothing goes to waste, tools are kept clean & properly stored.
The very idea of having something you don't clean & take care of offends me...
That's probably why I'm still hunting with the rifles/shotguns my great grandfather used on occasion,
And why I'm still using tools my grandfather gave me,
The tools & firearms I buy will be handed down in clean, proper working order a generation or two...

[rogn]

There seems to be a consensus among barrel makers that more barrels are worn out with cleaning rods than with shooting, neglect. Years ago I turned a "hummer' into an average barrel hundreds of rounds too soon using the then prevalent benchrest philosophy of cleaning after every(5shot) match. My current barrel only starts to group at 1K after 20 rounds and hasnt stopped after 60+.

[Average Joe]

Every time I shoot it , it gets cleaned. Kinda of like riding your horse, and putting him away wet if you don't ........

[William T. Watts]

Every time I shoot one of my rifles it is cleaned before it goes back into the gun cabinet!! I've done this all my life and nothing said here will change my mind! William

[Road_Clam]

Cleaning commonly used firearms after every range trip (shooting non-corrosive ammo)? Unnecessary imo and your just wasting time and money with no real advantage. Now if you shot your vintage firearm that your not sure you will shoot in the near future then a cleaning and long term storage swab is prudent. However its your firearm and your time and money so its your choice. Me personally i keep an Excel shooting log with my weekly shooters and i clean and de-copper after about 400-500 rounds. The exceptions are my M1 and my M1a i clean those more often as the lube grease gets quickly mixed with carbon and dirt. ( Its been very dusty in my area from severe drought)

[MarkCO]

This was the second, and should have been the last post in the thread...

Well said Brian.

I clean my guns when (and if) accuracy degrades.

For most of them, that means every few years. Even then, it's more "Wow, it's been a while, maybe I should clean this thing" than accuracy related. I've put over 75 rounds through my .204 and still shot under 1/2" groups and killed woodchucks at over 300 yards.

Modern smokeless powder and primers are non-corrosive and are only mildly (if at all) hygroscopic. I've never had a corrosion problem with *ANY* gun, *EVER*.

Cleaning guns because you shot them is a waste of time and materials and the idea that you're not "taking care" of them if you don't scrub them every time is as old-fashioned and out-dated as corrosive primers.

[Clark]

One compass I have to keep from getting lost in gun culture accuracy folklore is, "If Bart Bobbitt doesn't do it, then I don't have to."
That is because he shot 20 rounds into a 3.325" group at 800 yards, and Krieger took out an ad in Precision Shooting May 1997 saying he used a Krieger barrel.
And Bart does not clean barrels very often.

But wait a minute. He used 45.3 gr IMR4895 155 gr palma .... that is only 2686 fps.
That is like 17HMR at 2600 fps. I don't clean at 2600 fps or moly coat or anything.
As James Calhoon [Jim Leahey] says on his web site, if you shoot a 204 Ruger at 4000 fps, you spend all your time scrubbing blue out of the bore.
I built a 243 in 2002 with a $30 Adams and Bennet bull barrel that had a bore like an inverted rat tail file. It fired 3 shots touching at 100 yards, and then went to 6" group mode. It took 24 hours of work to get the Copper out each time it was shot.

So we can imagine a spectrum of bore cleaning needs from none to every 3 shots.
Bore cleaning heaven with custom barrels with factory lapped bores with bullets at 2600 fps with hard Copper alloy jackets.
Bore cleaning purgatory has rough corn cob looking bores with bullets made with soft pure Copper jackets [Remington] running at 4000 fps.

I have a foot in both worlds. I am building rifles for hunting in 2016:
1) Pac Nor super match 6mmBR 95 gr NBT moly 3200 fps
2) Shilen select match 25-06 115 gr NBT moly 3200 fps
3) Benchmark 7mmRM 140 gr NBT moly 3300 fps

...all with IMR- 4166 anti Copper fouling powder. I expect to clean Copper for ~ 10 minutes ~every 30 rounds, using KG-12 and Witches Brew.

[5whiskey]

There's absolutely, positively, undeniably no reason whatsoever to clean a modern firearm that shoots noncorrosive ammo after every time it's used. None.

I consider this patently false, depending on the rifle. There is not a one-size-fits-all standard for everything. I have a couple of rifles that I clean after every range trip. One is a Mauser that I shoot surplus ammo in... and you are not arguing against this. Another is a 270 Savage 110 that I rebarreled with an ER Shaw barrel. If I don't clean after about 20 rounds, accuracy starts to suffer somewhat. Like going from 1/2moa to 3/4moa. If I don't clean it, the next time I go to the range the groups will open up even more. What's more, I've found that double range trips make copper fouling removal way more difficult.

For most normal rifles, however, I do not clean after every single range trip. My pistols are a different story since I shoot lead out of them, but even then I will skip a cleaning on occasion if I only put a hundred rounds or less out of that pistol.

[EIB0879]

I clean mine after every range session except the last before hunting season. I leave the barrels fouled during hunting season and give them a good cleaning after the season is over. My handguns are cleaned after every range session.

As an Infantryman and Infantry officer, I was expected to clean my equipment no matter how tired I was. I guess that is still instilled in me.

[MosinM39]

http://www.rrdvegas.com/rimfire-cleaning.html

[doofus47]

I used to clean religiously until a friend of mine who did practical asked me "did the accuracy fall off"? Now I clean less.

[Gunplummer]

Clean a rifle 4 times a year whether it needs it or not? At one time I had over 200 Arisakas, plus other rifles. You must not have many guns. I shoot a lot of cut rifled barrels. Some are pretty ugly looking inside. The more copper build up in the pits, the better they shoot. Like everything else, there is no blanket answer to cover everything.

[marines6433]

Yes, you need to clean your rifle! If not for it's benefit, but for the therapy of cleaning your guns! LOL.

[SIGSHR]

I have found my 22 semiauto rifles need fairly regular cleaning for proper functiong.