Problems with Dillon Super Swager?

ScottRiqui · February 22, 2010, 09:37 PM

I just got a Super Swager 600 and I'm having trouble dialing in the correct amount of swage.

If I swage the crimp away completely, I have trouble sliding the swaged case into the shell holder of my handheld Lee Auto-Prime, almost as if the swaging process messed up the lip of the case somehow.

If I reduce the depth of the swaging rod, the swaged case slides into the shell holder easily enough, but the crimp is still somewhat visible.

To make things even more interesting, if I prime a case without swaging it at all, the primer seats just fine, so I'm wondering if I even need to remove the crimp in the first place?

Thanks,
Scott

arizona98tj · February 22, 2010, 10:34 PM

Have you sorted your cases by head stamp? Different brands of brass can vary in thickness.

PCJim · February 22, 2010, 10:54 PM

Not all .223 cases are crimped which is why you are able to seat primers in some cases without crimping. Believe me, if the cases were (properly) crimped, you will not be able to seat new primers without removing it.

As stated, any swaging tool will work best if you sort your cases by headstamp and adjust for each batch accordingly. You also may have a tightly machined shellholder that you are using.

jepp2 · February 22, 2010, 11:36 PM

What headstamp cases are you using?

If you adjust for too much swage, it can flow brass out of the pocket to the case head. You can check for this by setting the cases on a flat surface and seeing if it "rocks".

If your cases are crimped, all you really need to do is to put a radius on the lip of the primer pocket, in place of where the crimp has reduced the I.D. On LC, usually there will still be the O.D. impression visible on the case head after they have been properly swaged. The key to open up the pocket to accept the primer.

ScottRiqui · February 23, 2010, 04:20 AM

Thanks for all the replies, guys.

Quote:

Not all .223 cases are crimped which is why you are able to seat primers in some cases without crimping. Believe me, if the cases were (properly) crimped, you will not be able to seat new primers without removing it.

All of this is definitely crimped brass (LC 07), and the crimp is as plain as the nose on my face, but I can still prime them in my Auto-prime with no problems, even without swaging (CCI #41 primers). That's what puzzling me - everything I've ever read makes it sound like it should be impossible to re-prime a crimped case without removing the crimp first, but it seems to be working fine. Of course it requires a little bit more pressure compared to my uncrimped PMC brass, or other LC brass that I've already swaged, but nothing out of line, and I haven't deformed any primers yet.

I still want to do it the right way and swage away the crimp, but it doesn't seem to matter one way or the other.

Quote:

If you adjust for too much swage, it can flow brass out of the pocket to the case head. You can check for this by setting the cases on a flat surface and seeing if it "rocks".

If your cases are crimped, all you really need to do is to put a radius on the lip of the primer pocket, in place of where the crimp has reduced the I.D. On LC, usually there will still be the O.D. impression visible on the case head after they have been properly swaged. The key to open up the pocket to accept the primer.

I'll try rocking the cases on something like a sheet of glass to see if that's what happening, but that would certainly explain why the cases aren't going into the shell holder after I swage them heavily.

I guess the solution for me is going to be to swage the cases just a little bit to slightly round off the edge of the crimp. With my brass, "too much" swaging is definitely causing a problem, but "too little" doesn't seem to cause any problems at all, so that's probably the side to err on.

Thanks again!

Clark · February 23, 2010, 11:21 PM

If you have interference, you need to know where.
Is it a height increase or a diameter increase?
Is the shell holder out of spec? or the de crimped case?
Do the cases still fit in the gun?

If you paint ink on the case and try to put it in the shell holder, the ink will rub off where the trouble is.

ScottRiqui · February 24, 2010, 02:53 PM

I just painted the case head with ink, and tried the earlier suggestion of putting the case on a sheet of glass, and both tests confirm that if I swage the crimp *completely* away, it raises the metal around the primer hole up slightly, which is why the swaged cases weren't going into the shell holder easily. I'm pretty sure the holder itself is fine, since the same case slid right in before I swaged it.

So, I'm just going to swage the cases a little bit to smooth out the crimp without removing it completely, since doing that makes the cases easy enough to prime. In fact, I've had no problems priming these LC07 cases even without swaging them at all, but I think that's because the CCI #41 primers use a harder material for the cup to reduce sensitivity, making them less likely to deform as well.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

Scott

medalguy · February 25, 2010, 08:04 PM

What I do is start off with a small amount of swage and try to seat say 10 primers. If I have any resistance to seating them I run the primer rod in a bit more. I continue this until I can easily seat the new primers. Don't overswage the pockets because the primers can literally fall out if they are too loose. Also sort brass by headstamp, and if you have a problem as I have a few times of some cases not showing any resistance when you pull the swager handle, toss them aside and when all the other cases are done, just set the rod in a bit further and finish the last cases. This is caused by varying thickness in the case web. I have seen this sometimes even in the same year stamped cases. Remember how many rounds of ammo are made in a given year.

February 22, 2010, 09:37 PM	#1
ScottRiqui Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,905	Problems with Dillon Super Swager? I just got a Super Swager 600 and I'm having trouble dialing in the correct amount of swage. If I swage the crimp away completely, I have trouble sliding the swaged case into the shell holder of my handheld Lee Auto-Prime, almost as if the swaging process messed up the lip of the case somehow. If I reduce the depth of the swaging rod, the swaged case slides into the shell holder easily enough, but the crimp is still somewhat visible. To make things even more interesting, if I prime a case without swaging it at all, the primer seats just fine, so I'm wondering if I even need to remove the crimp in the first place? Thanks, Scott

February 22, 2010, 10:34 PM	#2
arizona98tj Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 980	Have you sorted your cases by head stamp? Different brands of brass can vary in thickness. __________________ stu-offroad.com Largest Jeep TJ project site on the web! (now with guns)

February 22, 2010, 10:54 PM	#3
PCJim Senior Member Join Date: July 11, 2008 Location: FL Posts: 570	Not all .223 cases are crimped which is why you are able to seat primers in some cases without crimping. Believe me, if the cases were (properly) crimped, you will not be able to seat new primers without removing it. As stated, any swaging tool will work best if you sort your cases by headstamp and adjust for each batch accordingly. You also may have a tightly machined shellholder that you are using.

February 22, 2010, 11:36 PM	#4
jepp2 Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2008 Location: Loveland, CO Posts: 1,476	What headstamp cases are you using? If you adjust for too much swage, it can flow brass out of the pocket to the case head. You can check for this by setting the cases on a flat surface and seeing if it "rocks". If your cases are crimped, all you really need to do is to put a radius on the lip of the primer pocket, in place of where the crimp has reduced the I.D. On LC, usually there will still be the O.D. impression visible on the case head after they have been properly swaged. The key to open up the pocket to accept the primer.

February 23, 2010, 11:21 PM	#6
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	If you have interference, you need to know where. Is it a height increase or a diameter increase? Is the shell holder out of spec? or the de crimped case? Do the cases still fit in the gun? If you paint ink on the case and try to put it in the shell holder, the ink will rub off where the trouble is.

February 24, 2010, 02:53 PM	#7
ScottRiqui Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,905	I just painted the case head with ink, and tried the earlier suggestion of putting the case on a sheet of glass, and both tests confirm that if I swage the crimp completely away, it raises the metal around the primer hole up slightly, which is why the swaged cases weren't going into the shell holder easily. I'm pretty sure the holder itself is fine, since the same case slid right in before I swaged it. So, I'm just going to swage the cases a little bit to smooth out the crimp without removing it completely, since doing that makes the cases easy enough to prime. In fact, I've had no problems priming these LC07 cases even without swaging them at all, but I think that's because the CCI #41 primers use a harder material for the cup to reduce sensitivity, making them less likely to deform as well. Thanks again for all the suggestions. Scott

February 25, 2010, 08:04 PM	#8
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: August 31, 2009 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,033	What I do is start off with a small amount of swage and try to seat say 10 primers. If I have any resistance to seating them I run the primer rod in a bit more. I continue this until I can easily seat the new primers. Don't overswage the pockets because the primers can literally fall out if they are too loose. Also sort brass by headstamp, and if you have a problem as I have a few times of some cases not showing any resistance when you pull the swager handle, toss them aside and when all the other cases are done, just set the rod in a bit further and finish the last cases. This is caused by varying thickness in the case web. I have seen this sometimes even in the same year stamped cases. Remember how many rounds of ammo are made in a given year.