Need help in evaluating the Value of 2 Colts

Colt 44-40 · January 15, 2015, 07:44 PM

These were passed down through the families over the years from my grandfather who had a large Gun Collection. I had them appraised about 15 years ago and was wondering what the estimated value might be today!

The first one #1) Colt Frontier Six Shooter (44 caliber) with extension
Numbers found 1.19.1871
Jan 19.75
Bottom of handle: 204
635
Bottom in front of trigger guard: 204635

The second one #2) Colt Rifle 44 Caliber
PTFA Mfg. Co. Hartford CT USA
May 29, 1988 Sept 18, 1888
Bottom #2659

Trying to get some pics loaded. Thanks again

Colt 44-40 · January 15, 2015, 07:45 PM

Thanks for any help!

Colt 44-40 · January 15, 2015, 07:46 PM

Additional Pics

Colt 44-40 · January 15, 2015, 07:48 PM

Pics

Colt 44-40 · January 15, 2015, 07:49 PM

Thanks again for any help!

James K · January 15, 2015, 08:21 PM

I am not sure of the legal status of the shoulder stocked SAA, since it is not an antique. If it is registered as an SBR or exempt from the NFA under a BATFE ruling, the package could be pretty valuable. But....

Better pictures would help to evaluate the guns, but both of them appear to have been heavily polished and refinished, effectively destroying any collector value. Some parts appear to have been gold plated, something I can be pretty certain was not done by the factory. In effect, whoever spent time or money to have those guns "enhanced" actually ruined them and decreased the value to a nominal sum.

Jim

dahermit · January 15, 2015, 08:58 PM

Could you have misread the numbers?

Quote:

Numbers found 1.19.1871

1.19. 1971?

Quote:

Jan 19.75

Jan 1975?

Couldn't that single action be a commemorative, not a re-work?

Jim Watson · January 16, 2015, 11:12 AM

No. Those are abbreviated patent dates for the 19th century.
The SAA was made about 1901 and is legally a "modern" firearm.
It is old enough to be a "curio or relic" but I don't know what that means for the shoulder stock. I would store them separately until I had some hard information.

The Lightning pump was made in 1884, the first year.

They have been dressed up with aftermarket plating which greatly depresses their collector interest and resale value. If you have a pleasing "appraisal" on file, best stick to it.

Colt 44-40 · January 16, 2015, 12:54 PM

First thanks for your comments. I do have an older appraisal about 10 years old which valued the guns at that time around $30,000.00. Thanks again

carguychris · January 16, 2015, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Watson

It is old enough to be a "curio or relic" but I don't know what that means for the shoulder stock. I would store them separately until I had some hard information.

FWIW the ATF Curios or Relics List does NOT exempt ANY Colt SAA and shoulder stock combination from the NFA (refer Section III, p.35).

It's possible that this combination has been exempted by some other ATF ruling, but I can't find any reference to such a ruling in a 5min online search.

Colt 44-40, unless and until you can find some documentation exempting this combination, IMHO Jim gives sage advice regarding storing them separately.

Also, you may ignore all of this if you're in a country other than the USA.

Without going into too much technical detail, the U.S. National Firearms Act (NFA) requires registration and transfer taxes for shoulder-stocked handguns that aren't specifically exempted from this requirement by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF).

Jim Watson · January 16, 2015, 02:22 PM

I would show the BATF the guns (stock and SAA separately) and that $30,000 appraisal and ask for an individual classification as C&R. Note that there are a lot of guns listed individually already and they did not get there by themselves.

Do you have Colt Archive Letters for the guns? If they letter as they look, they are worth a lot.

carguychris · January 16, 2015, 03:00 PM

I am FAR from an expert on Colt SAA's. That said, the shoulder stock appears superficially similar to the original Buntline Special shoulder stock in the following auction listing:

http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/56/lid/3228

Please note, however:

The original stocked Buntline Special in this auction has a 16" barrel, which is the minimum length that it NOT considered a Short-Barreled Rifle (SBR) under the NFA. However, unless it's otherwise exempted from the NFA by an ATF ruling as discussed above, the installation of such a stock on any shorter-barreled SAA creates a SBR, and all NFA regulations must be followed.
I've found online auctions for reproductions of 19th-century Buntline Special stocks, which is not surprising, as cheap modern knockoffs exist for virtually every rare vintage firearm accessory, and in almost every case, the knockoffs outnumber the genuine articles by several orders of magnitude. It often takes an expert to distinguish between the Real Thing and a knockoff, and in this case, I am NOT that expert.

James K · January 17, 2015, 11:29 PM

Legal questions aside, my recommendation would be that if anyone offers you $30,000 for those guns, take it and run, do not walk, to the nearest bank. Unless there is something not known to us (like proven ownership by Jesse James) IMHO they are not worth anywhere near that in their current conditions.

Jim

Nlight1 · January 18, 2015, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James K

Legal questions aside, my recommendation would be that if anyone offers you $30,000 for those guns, take it and run, do not walk, to the nearest bank. Unless there is something not known to us (like proven ownership by Jesse James) IMHO they are not worth anywhere near that in their current conditions.

Jim

I agree. 30k! Why?

January 16, 2015, 12:54 PM	#9
Colt 44-40 Junior Member Join Date: January 15, 2015 Posts: 6	Appraisal First thanks for your comments. I do have an older appraisal about 10 years old which valued the guns at that time around $30,000.00. Thanks again

January 16, 2015, 03:00 PM	#12
carguychris Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Richardson, TX Posts: 7,523	Re: the shoulder stock... I am FAR from an expert on Colt SAA's. That said, the shoulder stock appears superficially similar to the original Buntline Special shoulder stock in the following auction listing: http://www.rockislandauction.com/vie...id/56/lid/3228 Please note, however: The original stocked Buntline Special in this auction has a 16" barrel, which is the minimum length that it NOT considered a Short-Barreled Rifle (SBR) under the NFA. However, unless it's otherwise exempted from the NFA by an ATF ruling as discussed above, the installation of such a stock on any shorter-barreled SAA creates a SBR, and all NFA regulations must be followed. I've found online auctions for reproductions of 19th-century Buntline Special stocks, which is not surprising, as cheap modern knockoffs exist for virtually every rare vintage firearm accessory, and in almost every case, the knockoffs outnumber the genuine articles by several orders of magnitude. It often takes an expert to distinguish between the Real Thing and a knockoff, and in this case, I am NOT that expert. __________________ "Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak

January 15, 2015, 07:44 PM	#1
Colt 44-40 Junior Member Join Date: January 15, 2015 Posts: 6	Need help in evaluating the Value of 2 Colts These were passed down through the families over the years from my grandfather who had a large Gun Collection. I had them appraised about 15 years ago and was wondering what the estimated value might be today! The first one #1) Colt Frontier Six Shooter (44 caliber) with extension Numbers found 1.19.1871 Jan 19.75 Bottom of handle: 204 635 Bottom in front of trigger guard: 204635 The second one #2) Colt Rifle 44 Caliber PTFA Mfg. Co. Hartford CT USA May 29, 1988 Sept 18, 1888 Bottom #2659 Trying to get some pics loaded. Thanks again

January 15, 2015, 08:21 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I am not sure of the legal status of the shoulder stocked SAA, since it is not an antique. If it is registered as an SBR or exempt from the NFA under a BATFE ruling, the package could be pretty valuable. But.... Better pictures would help to evaluate the guns, but both of them appear to have been heavily polished and refinished, effectively destroying any collector value. Some parts appear to have been gold plated, something I can be pretty certain was not done by the factory. In effect, whoever spent time or money to have those guns "enhanced" actually ruined them and decreased the value to a nominal sum. Jim

January 16, 2015, 11:12 AM	#8
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	No. Those are abbreviated patent dates for the 19th century. The SAA was made about 1901 and is legally a "modern" firearm. It is old enough to be a "curio or relic" but I don't know what that means for the shoulder stock. I would store them separately until I had some hard information. The Lightning pump was made in 1884, the first year. They have been dressed up with aftermarket plating which greatly depresses their collector interest and resale value. If you have a pleasing "appraisal" on file, best stick to it.

January 16, 2015, 02:22 PM	#11
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,541	I would show the BATF the guns (stock and SAA separately) and that $30,000 appraisal and ask for an individual classification as C&R. Note that there are a lot of guns listed individually already and they did not get there by themselves. Do you have Colt Archive Letters for the guns? If they letter as they look, they are worth a lot.

January 17, 2015, 11:29 PM	#13
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Legal questions aside, my recommendation would be that if anyone offers you $30,000 for those guns, take it and run, do not walk, to the nearest bank. Unless there is something not known to us (like proven ownership by Jesse James) IMHO they are not worth anywhere near that in their current conditions. Jim