Strange bullet

Ozzieman · October 31, 2015, 06:57 PM

I was wondering if anyone has seen this bullet before.
At a gun show this weekend I picked up a box of mixed 30 caliber bullets. Several hundred had been pulled out of mid 50's army surplus (176 gr) and 40+ of the 3 seen in this photo were in the same box with other mixed.
These are 225GR and the metal in the hollow point looks like lead but is VERY hard.
The odd coloring at the base was from heavy lacquer that I have removed by tumbling in walnut shells. They had a lot of green on them before that.
I don't know if I have much use for them other than plinking in my Ishipor but the price of the 176's (about 5 cents) who cares.

steveno · November 1, 2015, 12:44 AM

Peters made a belted bullet way back when as a way to control expansion. the bullet example I have looks just like the belted bullets you have except the bullet belt is silver colored. I found the explanation in a Phil Sharpe old reloading book so you can see it was a long time ago

HiBC · November 1, 2015, 01:24 AM

Purely wild guess,
It looks rather German RWS or perhaps Norma to me.

ckpj99 · November 1, 2015, 02:25 AM

I have no idea what they are, but they have one heck of bearing surface. They would be amazing for firelapping barrels.

HiBC · November 1, 2015, 08:02 AM

Out of curiosity,I did some RWS searching .I went to the RWS web page,and looked at their current ammunition.They have a bullet that looks a lot like that bullet with a nose cap.
They call that front band shoulder a "hair cutting edge" .
I also searched "Vintage RWS" and looked at images.I saw some more of that band and edge.
I'd call that bullet "Of German fashion" myself

flashhole · November 1, 2015, 08:09 AM

Heck of bullet to use on an elk hunt if your gun can stabilize it.

LE-28 · November 1, 2015, 08:49 AM

Is it my eyes or does the dia of the bullet taper down above the cannelure? It looks like a bore riding bullet but I have no idea of what it is.

What's the total length of the bullet?

g.willikers · November 1, 2015, 10:36 AM

Quote:

These are 225GR and the metal in the hollow point looks like lead but is VERY hard.

Probably tarnished silver.
There were rumors of a special unit of the resistance in Germany, during WW2, made up of very large werewolves.
Hence, the silver bullets.
Just a wild guess, of course, though.

flashhole · November 1, 2015, 11:00 AM

Armor piercing rounds?

Ozzieman · November 1, 2015, 12:03 PM

All good suggestions. I measured 3 bullets the data is below. The canalure has very little indent from the case of the mouth,

Code:

Location       		  #1	          #2	          #3	        Average
          	
Base          		0.305	0.307	0.305	0.305666
Below canalure	0.308	0.304	0.307	0.306333
Canalure      		0.303	0.305	0.308	0.305
Above canalure	0.305	0.307	0.308	0.306666        
first ring    		0.299	0.293	0.296	0.296
Top ring      		0.242	0.244	0.250       0.244666
Length        		1.355	1.356	1.352	1.354333

Ozzieman · November 1, 2015, 07:18 PM

From what I can find now that I know the name there was silver band (170 GR) and the copper band (225gr). It was called a compound bullet construction.
The photo that I found is one that has been dissected. They were originally made for the 30-40 Krag.
Looks like an expensive bullet to manufacture. From the one original description I wonder what the "RUSTLESS" means
Thanks every one.

Peters Item No. 3090: ".30 Springfield, 1903, RUSTLESS, Belted Non-Disintegrating, Expanding, 225 grs."

Shadow72 · November 1, 2015, 08:21 PM

Didn't Peters use the term "Rustless" to indicate non-corrosive primers.

James K · November 1, 2015, 09:27 PM

Might I suggest that it may not be a good idea to mess around with unknown military ammunition or projectiles. Most of the stuff that looks odd probably is benign, but the U.S. and other nations have done things with small arms ammunition that would (or should) scare the hell out of most of us if we knew about it. We generally know about explosive bullets, tracers, incendiaries, etc., but one kind I know about would kill you and everyone in the house, maybe even in the town, if it were pounded on or fired.

Jim

briandg · November 1, 2015, 11:03 PM

That's the greatest thing that I've ever seen.

Salmoneye · November 2, 2015, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Didn't Peters use the term "Rustless" to indicate non-corrosive primers.

Yes.

steveno · November 2, 2015, 10:28 AM

I just weighed my bullet with the silver band and it weighs 225 grains

F. Guffey · November 2, 2015, 11:55 AM

I have bullets that look like the bullets pictured by the OP. I do not have bullets with bands added, I do have bullets with inserts, not much chance the tips will get hot enough to melt. Traveling at 2,800 fps, who knows?

F. Guffey

bfoosh006 · November 2, 2015, 03:47 PM

I think I might know a bullet collector that might be interested in those.

If you'd like I can IM him on another site and ask him.

Ozzieman · November 2, 2015, 05:11 PM

Quote:

but one kind I know about would kill you and everyone in the house, maybe even in the town, if it were pounded on or fired.

And what on earth would that be?

Ozzieman · November 2, 2015, 05:58 PM

bfoosh006, thank you but I think I will keep them. I also have a bullet collection.

briandg · November 3, 2015, 12:00 AM

Yeah, I'd love to know that answer. I know how powerful some of the fifty rounds are, and some of the heavy munitions would sure destroy a house. I'm glad that white phosphorus isn't generally available.

**Unclenick** · November 3, 2015, 10:46 AM

More likely he has in mind some kind of experimental weaponized biological or encased supertoxic radioactive isotope. Hopefully never made surplus by accident. But the caution is valid because mistakes are occasionally made. Short of launching it into the sun, there's never any such thing as 100% certainty that something hazardous you make will be contained forever, nor even that it is perfectly destroyed. Humans may do their best, but only God is perfect.

The pointed bullets look about like any match bullet. The 175 grain Sierra MatchKing used in M118LR ammunition comes to mind as close, but that wouldn't be as old as the 1950's and their weight tends to be pretty consistently as named.

F. Guffey · November 4, 2015, 02:00 PM

http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page...-06-cartridges

http://www.ammogarand.com/3006ammo.html

F. Guffey

November 1, 2015, 08:09 AM	#6
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	Heck of bullet to use on an elk hunt if your gun can stabilize it. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

November 1, 2015, 11:00 AM	#9
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	Armor piercing rounds? __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

November 1, 2015, 12:03 PM	#10
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	All good suggestions. I measured 3 bullets the data is below. The canalure has very little indent from the case of the mouth, Code: Location #1 #2 #3 Average Base 0.305 0.307 0.305 0.305666 Below canalure 0.308 0.304 0.307 0.306333 Canalure 0.303 0.305 0.308 0.305 Above canalure 0.305 0.307 0.308 0.306666 first ring 0.299 0.293 0.296 0.296 Top ring 0.242 0.244 0.250 0.244666 Length 1.355 1.356 1.352 1.354333 __________________ It was a sad day when I discovered my universal remote control did not in fact control the universe. Did you hear about the latest study.....5 out of 6 liberals say that Russian Roulette is safe. Last edited by Unclenick; November 3, 2015 at 10:25 AM. Reason: Inserted code tags and fixed spaceing font to make alignment possible.

November 1, 2015, 07:18 PM	#11
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	From what I can find now that I know the name there was silver band (170 GR) and the copper band (225gr). It was called a compound bullet construction. The photo that I found is one that has been dissected. They were originally made for the 30-40 Krag. Looks like an expensive bullet to manufacture. From the one original description I wonder what the "RUSTLESS" means Thanks every one. Peters Item No. 3090: ".30 Springfield, 1903, RUSTLESS, Belted Non-Disintegrating, Expanding, 225 grs." __________________ It was a sad day when I discovered my universal remote control did not in fact control the universe. Did you hear about the latest study.....5 out of 6 liberals say that Russian Roulette is safe. Last edited by Ozzieman; February 12, 2017 at 06:29 PM.

November 2, 2015, 11:55 AM	#17
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	I have bullets that look like the bullets pictured by the OP. I do not have bullets with bands added, I do have bullets with inserts, not much chance the tips will get hot enough to melt. Traveling at 2,800 fps, who knows? F. Guffey Last edited by F. Guffey; November 3, 2015 at 08:30 AM. Reason: add ?

October 31, 2015, 06:57 PM	#1
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	Strange bullet I was wondering if anyone has seen this bullet before. At a gun show this weekend I picked up a box of mixed 30 caliber bullets. Several hundred had been pulled out of mid 50's army surplus (176 gr) and 40+ of the 3 seen in this photo were in the same box with other mixed. These are 225GR and the metal in the hollow point looks like lead but is VERY hard. The odd coloring at the base was from heavy lacquer that I have removed by tumbling in walnut shells. They had a lot of green on them before that. I don't know if I have much use for them other than plinking in my Ishipor but the price of the 176's (about 5 cents) who cares. __________________ It was a sad day when I discovered my universal remote control did not in fact control the universe. Did you hear about the latest study.....5 out of 6 liberals say that Russian Roulette is safe. Last edited by Ozzieman; February 12, 2017 at 06:29 PM.

November 1, 2015, 12:44 AM	#2
steveno Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Minden , Nebraska Posts: 1,407	Peters made a belted bullet way back when as a way to control expansion. the bullet example I have looks just like the belted bullets you have except the bullet belt is silver colored. I found the explanation in a Phil Sharpe old reloading book so you can see it was a long time ago

November 1, 2015, 01:24 AM	#3
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,289	Purely wild guess, It looks rather German RWS or perhaps Norma to me.

November 1, 2015, 02:25 AM	#4
ckpj99 Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2011 Posts: 386	I have no idea what they are, but they have one heck of bearing surface. They would be amazing for firelapping barrels.

November 1, 2015, 08:02 AM	#5
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,289	Out of curiosity,I did some RWS searching .I went to the RWS web page,and looked at their current ammunition.They have a bullet that looks a lot like that bullet with a nose cap. They call that front band shoulder a "hair cutting edge" . I also searched "Vintage RWS" and looked at images.I saw some more of that band and edge. I'd call that bullet "Of German fashion" myself

November 1, 2015, 08:49 AM	#7
LE-28 Senior Member Join Date: September 24, 2012 Location: North Carolina Posts: 759	Is it my eyes or does the dia of the bullet taper down above the cannelure? It looks like a bore riding bullet but I have no idea of what it is. What's the total length of the bullet?

November 1, 2015, 08:21 PM	#12
Shadow72 Member Join Date: October 27, 2015 Location: Tejas Republic Posts: 70	Didn't Peters use the term "Rustless" to indicate non-corrosive primers.

November 1, 2015, 09:27 PM	#13
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Might I suggest that it may not be a good idea to mess around with unknown military ammunition or projectiles. Most of the stuff that looks odd probably is benign, but the U.S. and other nations have done things with small arms ammunition that would (or should) scare the hell out of most of us if we knew about it. We generally know about explosive bullets, tracers, incendiaries, etc., but one kind I know about would kill you and everyone in the house, maybe even in the town, if it were pounded on or fired. Jim

November 1, 2015, 11:03 PM	#14
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	That's the greatest thing that I've ever seen.

November 2, 2015, 10:28 AM	#16
steveno Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Minden , Nebraska Posts: 1,407	I just weighed my bullet with the silver band and it weighs 225 grains

November 2, 2015, 03:47 PM	#18
bfoosh006 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2009 Posts: 1,089	I think I might know a bullet collector that might be interested in those. If you'd like I can IM him on another site and ask him. Last edited by bfoosh006; November 2, 2015 at 03:53 PM.

November 2, 2015, 05:58 PM	#20
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	bfoosh006, thank you but I think I will keep them. I also have a bullet collection. __________________ It was a sad day when I discovered my universal remote control did not in fact control the universe. Did you hear about the latest study.....5 out of 6 liberals say that Russian Roulette is safe.

November 3, 2015, 12:00 AM	#21
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	Yeah, I'd love to know that answer. I know how powerful some of the fifty rounds are, and some of the heavy munitions would sure destroy a house. I'm glad that white phosphorus isn't generally available.

November 3, 2015, 10:46 AM	#22
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	More likely he has in mind some kind of experimental weaponized biological or encased supertoxic radioactive isotope. Hopefully never made surplus by accident. But the caution is valid because mistakes are occasionally made. Short of launching it into the sun, there's never any such thing as 100% certainty that something hazardous you make will be contained forever, nor even that it is perfectly destroyed. Humans may do their best, but only God is perfect. The pointed bullets look about like any match bullet. The 175 grain Sierra MatchKing used in M118LR ammunition comes to mind as close, but that wouldn't be as old as the 1950's and their weight tends to be pretty consistently as named. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

November 4, 2015, 02:00 PM	#23
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	http://cartridgecollectors.org/?page...-06-cartridges http://www.ammogarand.com/3006ammo.html F. Guffey