Lee mold re-alignment

[salmonfood]

I don't recall tapping my Lee 2 cavity mold anywhere other than the sprue plate or bolt, but perhaps I did by accident. Occasionally my mold will be out of alignment, I stop, wiggle the handles a bit, and then the mold is re-aligned for a little while. After casting about 20 bullets the mold is out of alignment again and I repeat the process. Is this normal or can someone please help me fix this?

Lee 2 cavity 102gr .356 aluminum mold

Thank you

[Hog Buster]

It might just be that the pivot bolt is a bit loose, try tightening it. On the other hand I have several Lee molds that do the same thing, even with the bolt tightened. When they don’t align I just give the mold body a tap and it falls into place. You can also bend the handles so that they realign. Some trial and error comes into play here.

Lets face it Lee molds are cheaply made and not too sturdy, but if you beat them up they’re cheap to replace. I think Lee will replace any mold for half of the going retail price when out of warranty and still in production.

I prefer steel molds, but over the years I have acquired a few Lee and you get what you pay for.

[Vance]

I find that when I lubricate the alignment pins with wax, the molds realign easier for longer times. When it starts getting out of alignment often, I just lube it again..

[Nomadicone]

I'm with Vance. Lee molds seem to need more lube than some other brands. I often forget to lube Lee's until my mold seems to not be aligning properly. When I lube the problem goes away.

[salmonfood]

I'll try re lubing every now and then.

Thanks for the tips

[GP100man]

I used 2 holers for a long time before castin with a steel mold !!!

I lubed with bullet lube (wax based) but found it built up & caused issues of sizes & weights variations .

I did change to Mobil 1 for a while then found Bull Shops Bull Plate Sprue Plate Lube !!!

It lubes & prevents stickin of alloys to the plate & mold & it last longer than 20 casts !!!!

BullShop is a vendor/sponsor over on the castboolits.gunloads site.

Another thing that helps Lee 2 holers live a long productive life is I have a peice of oak board (any hard surface will work) I lay the mold on squaerely before closing so it`s already alligned & the pins channel does`nt wear near as fast !!!

Also casting on the warm side make the wax lubes give up sooner & makes the aluminum "stiky" & when it`s stiky & ya strike the handles to align the halves ya move aluminum a little at the time & after a spell the pins channel will look rounded .

Good luck with em !! & preventing stikin cavitys & alignin the cavitys before closin I`ve reached 10,000 mark with of my 2 holers !!!

[snuffy]

GP got it right on the head. The lee instructions say to use boolit lube to lubricate the alignment pins, like GP said, it burns, then get sticky. It's a beotch to get off, you can damage the mold trying.

Bull plate is some type of high temp silicon lube.

I have several lee 2 cav molds that need help getting aligned when closing. After the first couple attempts, I learn just where/how to hold them to get them closed. Usually a gentle push in the right direction results in them going closed properly.

[chris in va]

Same here. I need to order some of that BullPlate. Gets annoying trying to line up those pins.

[salmonfood]

I'm still having a difficult time with alignment. I may buy some of the Bull shop lube.

[snuffy]

http://bullshop.gunloads.com/tbs_lube.htm

That's the link to the bull shop lube page. Be ready for a long wait, Dan lives at the end of a 7 mile long driveway. They may only get to the mailbox once a week, and it's 30 miles to town to ship packages. Their products are worth the wait.

http://bullshop.gunloads.com/tbs_about.htm

The bull plate lube comes in a plain white 4 oz. bottle. You'll think that will only last maybe a month. My first bottle is only half gone, I got it two years ago! You use such a small amount, in fact you'll put way too much on the first time, I guarantee it.

[Rifleman1776]

I have never, in 40+ years of casting, heard of lubricating any part of a mold. And never felt a need to. Yes, Lee molds are inexpensively made but will last decades. I do prefer Lyman, or other brand, cast iron molds but usually give in to price and buy Lee. Waiting on a two holer now in .495 round ball.
I guess this hasn't been much help. If you must put gunk on your mold to make yourself think you are doing something, I suggest a high temp mold release. Occasional tightening of the bolt might help and using high temps to cast can keep the parts free of lead build up, the most common source of problems.

[snuffy]

I guess this hasn't been much help. If you must put gunk on your mold to make yourself think you are doing something, I suggest a high temp mold release. Occasional tightening of the bolt might help and using high temps to cast can keep the parts free of lead build up, the most common source of problems.

I guess you've never had lead build up between the sprue plate and the top of the mold? Then you don't need bullplate lube. I also use it to lubricate the guide pins on lee molds, at the places lee says to use bullet lube on. To each his own I guess.

As for high heat, I've discovered a new trick. A guy with the handle geargnasher over on cast boolits forum has advocated cooler lead in a hot mold. His reasoning is too much heat in the lead causes tin to "burn out" of the alloy. The old myth that tin and antimony separate out of melted lead is partially correct. It don't "float out" it oxidizes out. Tin has much more affinity for oxygen than lead or antimony. Meaning it oxidizes faster when in contact with the atmosphere. What you see forming on the surface of the melt is mostly tin.

The trick is to lower the alloy temp to 700 degrees or under. Then cast that cooler lead in a hot mold. The reason that most have wrinkles in their boolits, is the mold is not hot enough. So they keep increasing the lead temp, burning off the tin that will help with fill-out. Eventually they end up with frosted boolits, BUT they're well filled out!

Since trying gear's method, I have been getting well filled out SHINY boolits where I could only get gray or frosted boolits before. I also got a hot plate for pre-heating molds. Yeah, I know the trick of dipping the corner in the lead, but hated to do it, always ended up with lead between the blocks.

I have a PID controller, so I know what my temps are. I have been getting shiny, well filled out boolits casting as low as 650 degrees!

These were cast at 690 degrees, pressure cast using a lyman ladle in contact with the sprue plate.





These were cast using 2 molds, bottom poured at 650 degrees. The molds got so hot, I had to rest the one not in use on a wet sponge to prevent frosted boolits.



One is a 300 .452, the other is a 440 50 cal, .501, both lee 2 cavs. I could never get shiny boolits like that before trying gear's method. The temp window for those results is quite narrow.

[maillemaker]

I have never, in 40+ years of casting, heard of lubricating any part of a mold.

I guess you've never read the manual that came with your Lee molds then?

I went to Home Depot and found some silicone lube. I use it on the hinge bolt, the sprue pivot screw, and use a q-tip to apply it to the alignment features on the mold.

The trick is to lower the alloy temp to 700 degrees or under. Then cast that cooler lead in a hot mold.

How do you heat the mold? You said you use a hot plate for pre-heating, but what do you do once you start casting?

Steve

[hornetguy]

Snuffy....
That casting with cooler metal isn't working very well at all, is it?

Look at all those BIG holes in the ends of your boolits! Some of them are even HEX shaped.

It's GOT to be the low temp lead...


ok... to be serious.. does casting with the 650 deg melt keep the mold hot enough, or do you return it to the hot plate regularly? I seem to have trouble keeping my molds hot enough without just going balls to the wall, and I usually cast at about 730 or so.
Personally, I LOVE the idea of casting at a lower temp, but so far haven't been able to make it work.

correction: PENTAGON shaped

[snuffy]

How do you heat the mold? You said you use a hot plate for pre-heating, but what do you do once you start casting?

Huh? My problem isn't how do I heat it, but keeping it cool enough to cast those shiny boolits. Notice I said I had to rest the mold on a wet sponge between casts, after dropping the boolit and leaving it open on the wet sponge!

I tried the same method on an iron Lyman mold, the 358156. It's a big mold,(2 cav), with little cavities in it. I did NOT have to cool between casts, it stayed hot but not too hot. The aluminum lee molds and the big brass mold had to be cooled in order to prevent frosting. The hot plate is just to bring the molds up to temp while the lead was melting in the pot.

The alloy was linotype 15-pure lead 5 pounds. I noticed very little dross build up at the lower temps. Looks like the idea of lower temps works to me! I fluxed once the lead was at temp, then didn't have to until I added more lead and recycled the sprues. Also the hot plate is nice to rest the new ingots on to pre-heat them.

Here's the PID controller;

[Vance]

WOW! That is an elaborate temp control. I just use a thermometer to adjust my casting pot until it is at 700 degrees. I don't get super shiny bullets like you get, but they are not frosty either.

[Rifleman1776]

Maybe I have heard of lubing a mold but put it in the back of my memory because it hasn't shown to be necessary for me.
I simply put my mold into the molten lead to heat. When lead won't stick, it is hot enough.
A bit of frosting is not fatal. My experience is that when some frosting shows that is an indication the temp. is about right. If too much forms I back the temp. down a tiny bit.
Casting is not complicated or mysterious. It is easy but tedious. But the 'tedious' part is, somehow, fun.

[hornetguy]

Snuffy... what kind of melter are you using?
I've toyed with some ideas for a mold heating unit that will hold the mold at the correct temp, allowing (hopefully) for perfect bullets every throw. I visualize two aluminum blocks with cartridge type heaters in each side, controlled with a pid type temp controller that you clamp the mold in. When the heating unit is up to temp, whatever you decide it to be, unclamp it, move the mold under the spout and pour. Dump out bullets, clamp, allow to come up to temp, repeat...
Theoretically, you should NEVER have a bad cast. It would be a little slower.. possibly quite a bit slower, but should give 100% good bullets.

Perhaps I'm trying to over-engineer something, but in the 40-odd years I've been casting (off and on) I've always had a gripe about so many bad, wrinkled, partial fills, frosted, etc..
Your setup looks good.. did you run a thermocouple to the pot?
Specifics, man, we need specifics!

[snuffy]

Here's a pic of my pro 20 pot with where the thermocouple,(TC), is located. That type "K" TC is NOT sealed, it will leak liquid lead if it's simply screwed into the bottom of the pot. So I used a ¼-20 bolt with copper washers on both sides of the pot bottom, then screwed a ¼- rod connector to the bolt, then the TC into that. It remote senses the bottom of the pot, but seems to work great. The PID holds +-1 degrees once it "learns" the application. I have a special plug that allows me to un-plug the TC from one pot, then switch to another.

I got the PID from here, they also have the plug for the TC. I also got the SSR for the controller from Auber.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?ma...cb7ae6d0c651ba

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?ma...cb7ae6d0c651ba

The box came from MPJ, Marlin P. Jones. All told, the PID cost me right at $80.00 But knowing the temp and instant adjustment to a desired temp is priceless.

Another thing. a PID will allow the pot to heat faster,(from a cold start), because it keeps the element on continuously until about 35 degrees under set temp.

[maillemaker]

Huh? My problem isn't how do I heat it, but keeping it cool enough to cast those shiny boolits. Notice I said I had to rest the mold on a wet sponge between casts, after dropping the boolit and leaving it open on the wet sponge!

I guess I misunderstood. You said "A guy with the handle geargnasher over on cast boolits forum has advocated cooler lead in a hot mold", so I assumed that this mean that the mold would need to be kept at a higher temperature than the lead during casting.

If this is not the case, then in reality you are casting with the mold at (approximately) the same temperature as your lead. Preheating doesn't really factor into this other than you don't "scrap" as many bullets when you start casting.

I've always heard it said that you should cast at the lowest temperature at which you can get good fill-out, which is what it sounds like you are doing.

Steve

[reloader28]

If its the same way I do it, you run the pot a touch cooler than normal. I dont have a temp gauge, so I just "wing" it.

But then you cast fast. Way faster than normal. I did it tonight in fact. Boolits were coming out half way decent, but I had to sort a few back to the pot. I sped up the casting to dump the boolits about 10-12 seconds after it was poured and everything started working perfect again. Shiny, clean, fast and no more went back in the pot.

Anytime I plug in the pot, the mold I'm going to use sets on the top of the pot. When I come back in 30 minutes to cast, the mold is ready to go without using an extra hot plate.

[Mauser Rat]

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

shiny....................

pretty...................

master caster!

What kind of boolit lube is that if you don't mind Snuffy?

[snuffy]

What kind of boolit lube is that if you don't mind Snuffy?

That's carnuba red made by lars. If I stopped there. you'd be scratching your head saying WHO?

http://www.lsstuff.com/lube

You have to go to that web addy to print out an order form. Then snail mail it to them with a check/mo. They take a bit of time to geterdone, but the wait is worth it.

Steve, I suppose if you were casting real small boolits in a 2 cav lyman mold, the mold wouldn't stay hot enough. Like I said, with the smaller 357 boolits, I didn't have to cool the mold, it didn't over heat.

The temptation of new casters is to keep increasing the melt temp[ to get filled out boolits. What they don't understand is it's the mold temp that has to be higher. Best way to do that is to start with a mold that's already hot enough, hence the hot plate. The top o' the pot is not hot enough!

There's several guys over at cast boolits . com that have put thermocouples directly in mold blocks to accurately measure temps of the mold. My measuring of mold temps is by using a laser temp gauge/thermometer from harbor freight. It has to beam at a dark colored surface, so it don't work well on alum. molds. You have to use the sprue plate, which is considerably cooler than the blocks themselves.

I've yet to try it on a Lyman iron mold, I suspect it would work well. But, the temps I've been getting, off the sprue plate on the 44 and 50 cal lee molds is around 340 degrees when producing nicely filled out, shiny boolits. A mold is never as hot as the melt, if it were the boolits would never solidify.

[Mauser Rat]

Thanks for the link Snuffy. That lube looks like it is very full and even and is staying in the lube grooves. I haven't produced that quality yet with my melt, dip and trim operation but your boolits in the pics are where I am going to try to get to. Hog Buster tells me I need a lube/sizer and I imagine that is how you applied that great looking lube on those great looking boolits.

Very useful information and posts as usual Snuffy; and you have proved that old adage yet again:

"A picture is worth a thousand words."

I hope that isn't copyrighted and I don't have a clue who to give credit to but maybe its just that guy Anon-y-mous again.

P.S. Been meaning to tell you: Ditto on the people/dogs thing. Maybe I should do a poll?

[salmonfood]

I am glad that I started such a lengthy conversation.

It seems like what works best at keeping my mold aligned is tightening the hinge bolt. The bolt is pretty tight, it requires two hands with a little force to open. This way the bullets stay aligned. I suspect that the real reason is since the mold requires some effort to close, it closes more slowly, thus allowing me time to wiggle the handles into alignment.

Thanks again for the tips.
Soon I will start casting with a new batch of lead and I will probably end up with some more questions.