Walker/Dragoon owners, please give your insight. Also need hollowpoints

Rachen · April 14, 2011, 02:21 PM

Question for Walker/Dragoon owners:

Is the arbor pin on Walker/Dragoons replaceable? I plan to get one soon as a hunting gun when living out in the sticks, and I will be using powder charges up to 55 grains. Should I also obtain some spare arbors if I do get one of these cavalry pistols?

Also, I want to know if any of you guys use hollow point lead bullets in your caplocks? I have been using round ball loads for many years for hunting/defense and they have been very reliable, I was looking at the Lyman "Devastators" and want a second opinion on their usage. I want to use them both for cap and ball loading and for .45 Long Colt cartridges.

Doc Hoy · April 14, 2011, 03:43 PM

I have both a Walker and a Second Model Dragoon from ASM. The arbor is held firm with a sort of set screw instead of just a pin. It appears that you simply turn the screw out and then unscrew the arbor. I haven't tried it yet. I am getting a Third model here pretty soon. It is also an ASM. (CVA import)

I don't use anything but round balls

ClemBert · April 14, 2011, 04:35 PM

I don't know what the process is to replace the arbor. Hopefully, someone who has will chime in and tell us the process/hassle. I've fired numerous 60 grain loads and so far (knock on wood) have not observed any damage to the wedge/arbor. If you are going with a new Uberti Walker and 55 grains of FFFg and a roundball then you probably will not have to worry about arbor damage.

As far was .45 Colt reloads I'd stick with 0.452 soft lead bullets. I think the soft lead with give you the expansion/obturation you'll need to seal the bore from blow-by gases. Will you be using black powder to reload your .45 Colt cartridges?

MJN77 · April 14, 2011, 05:44 PM

I have a Walker and two 3rd model Dragoons, all Uberti. I do not think you'll need to worry about the cylinder pins. As for the bullets, most shooters find that the round ball is more accurate than a conical bullet. I have come to this conclusion myself. In my OPINION, if you are carrying a Walker with 55 gr loads, I figure round balls are all you need.

madcratebuilder · April 15, 2011, 08:26 AM

Replacing the arbor on a Colt revolver requires a lathe. The shoulder that fits in the frame has to cut cut to a specific length. It's not extremely difficult with the correct tooling and experience. It's not something for a table top gunsmith working with hand tools.

Doc Hoy · April 15, 2011, 10:00 AM

When you look at replacement parts, you find that Walker and Dragoon replacement arbors have the channel that accepts the locating screw already milled in them. It is indexed to line up with the wedge and to line up with the channel in the frame. This appears to be true of ASM (if you can find them) and Uberti. I want to emphasize that I have never replaced an arbor in a Walker or Dragoon and so someone who has done it is in a far better position to relate the process.

These arbors are significantly larger in diameter than an 1860 or 1851 so they ought to be able to stand the strain of the heavier loads. Indeed the diameter is less important than the circumference when it comes to threads, so that bigger arbor really has a lot more strength.

I have bought other arbors (for other Colts) and the channel is not there.

But MCB (IMNSHO) is right. You almost have to have a lathe to cut the shoulder because an awful lot of stuff has to line up right or you can't even put the pistol back together.

Tnx,

Barry

Rachen · April 15, 2011, 01:26 PM

Wow guys, I never knew that the arbor was that tight fitted into the frame. The thing that got me concerned about this issue was that someone on THR I think said that after firing full-powered loads, the arbor was noticeably loose and jiggling

That would be a nightmare.

But then ClemBert posted more info on his BPM experiment, it seems that arbor is made from some kind of industrial tool alloy.

Quote:

I don't know what the process is to replace the arbor. Hopefully, someone who has will chime in and tell us the process/hassle. I've fired numerous 60 grain loads and so far (knock on wood) have not observed any damage to the wedge/arbor. If you are going with a new Uberti Walker and 55 grains of FFFg and a roundball then you probably will not have to worry about arbor damage.

As far was .45 Colt reloads I'd stick with 0.452 soft lead bullets. I think the soft lead with give you the expansion/obturation you'll need to seal the bore from blow-by gases. Will you be using black powder to reload your .45 Colt cartridges?

Yep, black powder is all I use. I have no partake in that newfangled stuff

The Lyman Devastator was made for black powder and it is also .452, pure soft lead. That would make one hell of an effective hunting round.

ClemBert · April 15, 2011, 01:38 PM

Well, I don't want to make any guarantees on the strength of every Walker. So far so good (knock on wood) with mine. I'm almost expecting some damage but have not seen it yet. Just about all the Walker damage problems I seem to recall centered around ASM made Walkers from some time back. I'm not aware of any newer Uberti Walkers getting squished. But...that is just from what I recall.

p.s. Keep in mind my 60 grain FFFg loads are weighed loads. My volumetric measure actually only throws about 55 grains of powder when it is weighed. In other words, I'm cramming in more powder than I would have if I just relied on my volumetric measure. FWIW....

Rachen · April 15, 2011, 01:58 PM

Quote:

p.s. Keep in mind my 60 grain FFFg loads are weighed loads. My volumetric measure actually only throws about 55 grains of powder when it is weighed. In other words, I'm cramming in more powder than I would have if I just relied on my volumetric measure. FWIW....

Yep I go by volume too. My powder measures are all volumetric. I never measured the two but I have heard that Pyrodex is less dense than Holy Black so 60grs of P-dex by weight will equal to more of black.

ClemBert · April 15, 2011, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rachen

Yep I go by volume too. My powder measures are all volumetric. I never measured the two but I have heard that Pyrodex is less dense than Holy Black so 60grs of P-dex by weight will equal to more of black.

Whoa, whoa, whoa...you said you only use black powder. Don't throw in the words "Pyrodex" because some unknowing person may get confused and think they are the same thing. All BP substitutes should always be volumetrically measured. My comments are in regard to black powder as this is what you verified as using.

Rachen · April 15, 2011, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Whoa, whoa, whoa...you said you only use black powder. Don't throw in the words "Pyrodex" because some unknowing person may get confused and think they are the same thing. All BP substitutes should always be volumetrically measured. My comments are in regard to black powder as this is what you verified as using.

Hmm I have always regarded Pyrodex as just black powder with that funny plastic smell when burning. Of course, it is volumetrically measured, but P-grade behaves the same way as Swiss FFFg, almost same velocity.

I usually make my own black powder which is just saltpeter and willow charcoal, no sulfur. I use Pyrodex when I am feeling especially lazy or really busy on the road. P-dex has been around for almost 30 years so I trust it as much as Holy black.

JiminTexas · April 16, 2011, 02:38 PM

With regard toi your question about hollow points. I wouldn't concern myself with the hollowpoint question. The bullets that you are shooting do not have the velocity to open up a hoolowpoint. But, if you are really curious about it try using a drill press and a #8 screw countersink (about $5.00 at Home Depot) to drill the hollowpoint in the nose of a conical bullet. Shoot it into a wet telephone book (roughly the density of flesh, just a little more dense, but a whole lot cheaper than balistic gel) and see how much penetration and expansion you get.

Rifleman1776 · April 16, 2011, 04:43 PM

Jimintexas is correct about the hollow points.
However, for my Ruger Old Army I used hollow points. Oddly, not because they performed different or better. They didn't. But only because they are easier to cast. The pin that makes them hollow allows the side of mold to be pulled away and let them drop easily. Non-hollow bullets had a tendency to stick in the molds. BTW, those are .457 bullets for the ROA. I dunno wat works best in your Walker.

April 14, 2011, 02:21 PM	#1
Rachen Senior Member Join Date: May 10, 2006 Location: Weekend cowboy Posts: 542	Walker/Dragoon owners, please give your insight. Also need hollowpoints Question for Walker/Dragoon owners: Is the arbor pin on Walker/Dragoons replaceable? I plan to get one soon as a hunting gun when living out in the sticks, and I will be using powder charges up to 55 grains. Should I also obtain some spare arbors if I do get one of these cavalry pistols? Also, I want to know if any of you guys use hollow point lead bullets in your caplocks? I have been using round ball loads for many years for hunting/defense and they have been very reliable, I was looking at the Lyman "Devastators" and want a second opinion on their usage. I want to use them both for cap and ball loading and for .45 Long Colt cartridges.

April 14, 2011, 03:43 PM	#2
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	Rach I have both a Walker and a Second Model Dragoon from ASM. The arbor is held firm with a sort of set screw instead of just a pin. It appears that you simply turn the screw out and then unscrew the arbor. I haven't tried it yet. I am getting a Third model here pretty soon. It is also an ASM. (CVA import) I don't use anything but round balls __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

April 15, 2011, 10:00 AM	#6
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	I have never pulled the arbor out of a Walker or Dragoon, But When you look at replacement parts, you find that Walker and Dragoon replacement arbors have the channel that accepts the locating screw already milled in them. It is indexed to line up with the wedge and to line up with the channel in the frame. This appears to be true of ASM (if you can find them) and Uberti. I want to emphasize that I have never replaced an arbor in a Walker or Dragoon and so someone who has done it is in a far better position to relate the process. These arbors are significantly larger in diameter than an 1860 or 1851 so they ought to be able to stand the strain of the heavier loads. Indeed the diameter is less important than the circumference when it comes to threads, so that bigger arbor really has a lot more strength. I have bought other arbors (for other Colts) and the channel is not there. But MCB (IMNSHO) is right. You almost have to have a lathe to cut the shoulder because an awful lot of stuff has to line up right or you can't even put the pistol back together. Tnx, Barry __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

April 14, 2011, 04:35 PM	#3
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	I don't know what the process is to replace the arbor. Hopefully, someone who has will chime in and tell us the process/hassle. I've fired numerous 60 grain loads and so far (knock on wood) have not observed any damage to the wedge/arbor. If you are going with a new Uberti Walker and 55 grains of FFFg and a roundball then you probably will not have to worry about arbor damage. As far was .45 Colt reloads I'd stick with 0.452 soft lead bullets. I think the soft lead with give you the expansion/obturation you'll need to seal the bore from blow-by gases. Will you be using black powder to reload your .45 Colt cartridges?

April 14, 2011, 05:44 PM	#4
MJN77 Senior Member Join Date: April 27, 2009 Location: on a hill in West Virginia Posts: 789	I have a Walker and two 3rd model Dragoons, all Uberti. I do not think you'll need to worry about the cylinder pins. As for the bullets, most shooters find that the round ball is more accurate than a conical bullet. I have come to this conclusion myself. In my OPINION, if you are carrying a Walker with 55 gr loads, I figure round balls are all you need.

April 15, 2011, 08:26 AM	#5
madcratebuilder Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2007 Location: Northern Orygun Posts: 4,923	Replacing the arbor on a Colt revolver requires a lathe. The shoulder that fits in the frame has to cut cut to a specific length. It's not extremely difficult with the correct tooling and experience. It's not something for a table top gunsmith working with hand tools.

April 15, 2011, 01:38 PM	#8
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	Well, I don't want to make any guarantees on the strength of every Walker. So far so good (knock on wood) with mine. I'm almost expecting some damage but have not seen it yet. Just about all the Walker damage problems I seem to recall centered around ASM made Walkers from some time back. I'm not aware of any newer Uberti Walkers getting squished. But...that is just from what I recall. p.s. Keep in mind my 60 grain FFFg loads are weighed loads. My volumetric measure actually only throws about 55 grains of powder when it is weighed. In other words, I'm cramming in more powder than I would have if I just relied on my volumetric measure. FWIW....

April 16, 2011, 02:38 PM	#12
JiminTexas Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2010 Posts: 149	With regard toi your question about hollow points. I wouldn't concern myself with the hollowpoint question. The bullets that you are shooting do not have the velocity to open up a hoolowpoint. But, if you are really curious about it try using a drill press and a #8 screw countersink (about $5.00 at Home Depot) to drill the hollowpoint in the nose of a conical bullet. Shoot it into a wet telephone book (roughly the density of flesh, just a little more dense, but a whole lot cheaper than balistic gel) and see how much penetration and expansion you get.

April 16, 2011, 04:43 PM	#13
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	Jimintexas is correct about the hollow points. However, for my Ruger Old Army I used hollow points. Oddly, not because they performed different or better. They didn't. But only because they are easier to cast. The pin that makes them hollow allows the side of mold to be pulled away and let them drop easily. Non-hollow bullets had a tendency to stick in the molds. BTW, those are .457 bullets for the ROA. I dunno wat works best in your Walker.