8mm mauser vz24

[rich s]

I am interested in converting my brno czech 8mm mauser. The 30-06 is my preferred round and I've read others recommend it but I tried to load fmj rounds and they are too long. Will any 30-06 round fit the magazine without alterations.
Otherwise can another suitable round be suggested that will feed well and require no magazine alteration.

[James K]

Sure. Thousands have been converted to .308 Winchester (7.62 NATO) with no major changes except rebarrelling.

Or, if the barrel is in good shape, you can stick with the 8mm.

Jim

[Scorch]

if you want to convert it to 30-06, you will need to modify the action and magazine box. Converting to 308 as James K suggested (or 7X57, or 243, or 257 Roberts, etc) is very easy, just swap barrels and they will usually work with no problems.

[F. Guffey]

VZ22, VZ24? It is not fair, I have have installed barrels with 270 Winchester chambers on VZ22 and VZ24 Actions with no modifications, I have installed barrels with 30/06 chambers on the same actions, I have chambered 8mm57 chambers to 8mm06 chambers, again, I am not the fan of seating my bullets .001” off the lands, I am the fan of the running start, I want my bullets to have a running start.

Not fair, I make no special effort in picking an action/rifle to build, again, not fair to others.

Then there were the 7mm rifles converted to 30/06, for those that need the longer magazine go dig and good luck. I purchased 4 of them, I was informed they were suspect? The rifles wore out the original 7mm barrel, then they were converted to 30/06 and wore out that barrel. With 4 bolts and 4 receivers the effect receiver had on the length of the chamber with any combination of different bolts was .001”

F. Guffey

[rich s]

Thanks to all for reply!
Choosing the round is the first of a number of questions I have. The Mauser was brought back from WWII by my uncle who gave it to me while I was in high school 55 years ago. I want to upgrade it before giving it to my son.
The next step is choosing the barrel. It will be either .243 or .308.
I would like to buy a short chambered, finish blued barrel that will require only hand reaming to headspace exactly. Should it come cut so as to bottom up on the primary torque ring with minimal gap to the receiver?
Can a supplier be recommended?

[Scorch]

No one that I know of sells a finish polished, blued, short chambered barrel. You can buy short chambered barrels from a number of sources (Midway, Brownells, Shilen, Douglas, McGowen, Lothar Walther, etc), but they are shipped with a turned finish and in the white. Headspace the barrel and you are ready to have the action drilled and tapped and to have the bolt handle bent (if you intend to mount a scope on it), then off to be blued. When it comes back home, it will need a stock.Then you are ready to hand it over to your son.

[James K]

If that rifle has not already been messed with, and had been given to me by an uncle, there is no way I would modify it. Pass it to your son as a remembrance of his great uncle's service to his country.

If you want something to shoot, buy a nice, new Remington Model 700, which could actually cost less than trying to rework that Mauser.

Jim

[arcticap]

I know someone who had the barrel replaced on a K98 Mauser. He said that the gunsmith told him that it took 2-3 hours to machine the receiver to fit the barrel because the steel was so hard. And this was done by a Mauser rebarreling expert who advertises on Gunbroker. He provides a lot of info. in his ad and did a nice job. I realize that it's a VZ24 being discussed but the process and effort required may be similar:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=306766589

[F. Guffey]

'”The 30-06 is my preferred round and I've read others recommend it but I tried to load fmj rounds and they are too long'’

The 8mm57 is shorter from the head of the case to its shoulder .121” than the 30/06, meaning when a 30/06 case is chambered in the 8mm57 chamber there is .231’ protruding from the chamber. I do not know the condition of your barrel, back when cases were difficult to find for the Mauser the chamber was cut to 8mm06, back to your question regarding what will work without modifications to the magazine, the 8mm06 is the same length as the 30/06.

Rich S, If the rifle is in full military dress consider applying the leaver policy, leaver the way you founder. When I am told a rifle is worth $700.00 +/- I say to the person doing the evaluation to ‘PAY ME’, they never do so I build what I choose to build.

I do not have less than 30 Mouser barrels, most are large shank 98K type barrels, when I replace a Mauser barrel I check the length of the chamber first from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber, in the perfect world the difference in length between the chamber and case from the head of the case to its shoulder is .005”. After removing the barrel I check case head protrusion, case head protrusion on the 8mm Mauser barrel is .110” +/- very little, I know none of this makes sense to anyone on this forum but I chamber the barrel first then installed on the action.

I purchased 4 Mausers for $25.00 each, I used one barrel to test all four receivers, with 4 receivers and 4 bolts there was not .001” difference in the length of chamber with one barrel, when checking the receiver the distance from the ‘C’ ring/torque ring/barrel mating surface down to the bolt face is the most important one, I am never surprised when the measurement is .115”. The second measurement is obtained by measuring from the barrel face to the shoulder at the end of the barrel shank. The barrel face must must hit the ‘C’ ring before the front of the receiver ring hits the shoulder at the end of the sank. (easy to do), screw the barrel in until it contacts the ‘C’ ring, then measure the gap between the front receiver ring and shoulder at the end of the barrel shank with a feeler gage. Slack will be removed between the threads and there will be some crush but the face of the barrel can only get so close to the torque ‘C’ ring, then galling begins.

I use the barrel vise in a press, there is no such thing as too tight.

F. Guffey

[rich s]

Thank You all - you have been very generous with your time and information.
If I could turn back the clock and leave the rifle alone I would certainly do that but did have the bolt altered and a scope mounted all those years ago.
I still am not sure about ordering the barrel ( big disappointment about them coming white ). My main question is about the new .308 barrel bottoming up on the C ring - I have not found a supplier who states that their ' short chambered - lathe free " barrel will torque up properly. My fear is screwing in the new barrel and having it bottom on the receiver.

[F. Guffey]

“My fear is screwing in the new barrel and having it bottom on the receiver”

Forgive, not my intension to scare, like reloading there is a minimum of tools required, then there is the technical part, it is possible to remove you barrel for the purpose of measuring the length of the barrel shank and case head protrusion, again, I measure the length of the chamber from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber first, after removing the barrel I measure case head protrusion.

There are times when someone decides they are going to order 3+ bolts in hopes of ‘getting lucky’ by finding a bolt to off set excessive chamber length of go the other way in an attempt to find a bolt that would increase the length of the chamber, that was never necessary, if the person ordering the bolts knew how to measure a bolt and could find someone with bolts that also knew how to measure a bolt, only one bolt would be required, then there is the little problem of finding a bolt that would off set the length of the chamber from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber.

You will have to decide if you are going to do the work, or if you are going to be able to find help or if you are going to have it done. Bottoming out on the front of the receiver is a matter of moving metal from the shoulder in front of the barrel shank or by truing up the front receiver ring.

I would not discourage you from acquiring a head space gage, I do not shoot gages, I shoot ammo, my methods and techniques make owning head space gages nice to own but not necessary, again, I shoot ammo.

F. Guffey

[rich s]

Thanks to all who have given replies to my questions
I have just ordered the barrel - reamer and gauges for the project from Brownells. That puts me $548 into it so far. Stock is yet to come.
I Will post again when I get that far
Thanks again!

[F. Guffey]

“I have just ordered the barrel - reamer and gauges for the project from Brownell’s”

rich s, did I leave out the part about separating the barrel from the receiver, many years ago I purchased a barrel vise, it came with wood blocks, seems at the time wood blocks were barrel finish friendly, the barrels I had to remove were installed by a go-rillo, I came close to setting the wood blocks on fire, the barrels never budged. Then I made metal blocks for the barrel vise and installed the barrel in a 20 ton press, and that was the end of my learning how to remove a barrel days.

Along with the barrel vise a receiver wrench is required, there are times I have added a 4 foot pipe to the handle of the barrel vise, 4 ft. X 300 lb. = 1,200 foot pounds of torque, no, 1,200 foot pounds of torque is not necessary when installing the barrel, there are times the barrel is stubborn when removing. I have never had to cut the barrel in front of the receiver ring and I have never cracked a receiver.

I have no clue what a barrel vise and receiver wrench cost today. could be as much as $200.00, my advise,avoid the wood blocks.

I have purchased take off barrels that had pipe wrench marks on the barrel.

F, Guffey

[mapsjanhere]

Of course, one could argue that "upgrading" an 8x57 to a 30-06 is like upgrading a 427 to a 305

[roberto mervicini]

If your original mil. barrel is top shape, shining and crisp rifling, you could ream a new chamber 8mm.X64mm. and nothing else to change.
I have the same rifle that I rechamber 20 yrs a go, I reload using 06 brass, need to be fire form the first time, ( after trimming the shoulder is 1mm shorter than specs ) use only norma 196 gr. bullets on top of a compress load of IMR4831.
I am very satisfy of the performance, could bench 2 boxes of cartridges and the combined score fit inside 1,5" circle at 100 yrds., and on a bad day 2". I still have the original mil. trigger on it.
Since the 8X64 has the shoulder more forward than the 06 it has more powder capacity, and may be a little more power than the 30.06


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[James K]

The only real drawback to 8x57 is that the bullet selection is not as great as with .30 caliber and lightweight bullets (like the 110 grain .30 caliber) are not made. But otherwise there is nothing the .30-'06 will do that the 8mm will not do as well or better.

Jim

[rich s]

I did reply to f. Guffey's last post forewarning me of difficulty in removing the barrel. I don't see that reply on this thread! Well, I'm new to this......it must be somewhere.
In fact it was very difficult to remove. As f.guffy states wood is useless. It took heat ( used cautiously ), pipe wrench, and long extentions to break it loose. Wonderful cracking sound when it finally gave.
The new barrel screws in nicely but lands on the shoulder. It is .010 short of the C ring. I can get a friend to cut the barrel and get it to torque on the C ring.
Given .010 needed for the barrel to engage both the c ring and shoulder at once -how much should I remove so as to land on the C ring first and yet close the gap from the receiver to thee barrel shoulder?
I plan to use wood for the installation maybe giving the receiver wrench one good strike with a hammer.

[Scorch]

how much should I remove so as to land on the C ring first and yet close the gap from the receiver to thee barrel shoulder?

I usually cut the barrel threads to allow .002"-.003" crush fit of the barrel against the c-flange.

[tobnpr]

This barrel problem is interesting. I've always wanted to do an amateur DIY Mauser with a short-chambered barrel- but it has been my understanding that a "short chambered" barrel is supposed to just require final chamber reaming.

Guess I've had it wrong. If you don't have a lathe, you're screwed?

[JackL]

Quoth James K:
The only real drawback to 8x57 is that the bullet selection is not as great as with .30 caliber and lightweight bullets (like the 110 grain .30 caliber) are not made. But otherwise there is nothing the .30-'06 will do that the 8mm will not do as well or better.

^^^^
This, pretty much.

The biggest drawback I see to the 8x57 is that factory ammo might be a little tricky to find, depending on where you shop (don't think I've ever seen it in chain department stores, for instance). If you handload, though, the Mauser round is at least as versatile as the ought-six and arguably more efficient.

I think 125 grains is about as light as you'll find in .323, but you might consider going with cast bullets and just loading them for lower velocities. A lot of people seem to like Trail Boss for reduced loadings in the 8x57.

Otherwise, yeah, something in the .308 Winchester (*x51mm) family would be a good bet; those rounds are almost functionally identical to the 06 family and should cycle just fine from a 98 magazine.

[rich s]

Scorch - the barrel is on! leaving .002 gap as you said worked out perfectly. The reaming was much easier than anticipated.
Thanks for your help!

[Hylander]

How about an update, I'm looking to rebarrel my K98.
I'm considering .308 and 30-06
You never mentioned what barrel make,hows the rifle function, accuracy or posted any pics

[rich s]

The rifle took an 800 mile ride over the Thanksgiving weekend and now has been passed on to my son. We had only a 50 yd range to fire it, After bore sighting it hit paper first shot and within six shots was nicely zeroed. It then produced several three shot groups within a quarter. It shoots really well!
The scope is a Leopold 3X9 = $250
The barrel a Shilen #4 contour .308 from Brownell = $300
Timney trigger and safety. Stock a really nice piece of black walnut from Midway for under $100. I used the rear pillar from the old stock and glass bedded the recoil lug and front of receiver.
It was an all engrossing project that was well worth it in the end. The Mauser that my uncle brought home from WWII hopefully will be passed on from my son to his.