So much for .22 LR not being deadly

stephen426 · May 31, 2005, 11:02 AM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8028084/?GT1=6542

Why the hell do these type of things continue to happen? This is so sad and senseless. Why can't he just off himself instead of his whole family? Anti-Gun people are going to have a field day with this one.

mete · May 31, 2005, 11:15 AM

I'll bet that as the story develops that there have been signs of problems that everyone ignored .So often with these stories the "nice kid" is actually a "troubled youth" !!!

Trip20 · May 31, 2005, 11:22 AM

It's depressing.

Crosshair · May 31, 2005, 12:01 PM

Note to self.

1. Get handgun off layaway. (Have to wait until payday.

)
2. Get CCW. (Easy in ND

)
3. Test that +P 38 Special I got on clearance at the store.
4. Kill any ***hole that tries to kill me before he does.

/Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean someone isn't out to get you.

luvtoshoot · May 31, 2005, 12:48 PM

Crosshair according to this story you might want to make a note to yourself to NEVER fall asleep again either. And possible make sure you have no relatives.

Duxman · May 31, 2005, 01:16 PM

Lets be realistic here. This is not the atypical scenario of how people use their guns.

And the biggest point - if he wanted to do this and had no access to guns, he would have chopped / chainsawed / hacked or rat poisoned them. The method of death is not necessarily at fault here. Are they going to ban axes / chainsaws and rat poison?

GTSteve03 · May 31, 2005, 01:26 PM

Quote:

And the biggest point - if he wanted to do this and had no access to guns, he would have chopped / chainsawed / hacked or rat poisoned them. The method of death is not necessarily at fault here. Are they going to ban axes / chainsaws and rat poison?

Just playing devil's advocate here, but would he have been able to kill that many people without waking them up without having a gun? A 22LR isn't that loud, perhaps thats why he was able to get them while sleeping and not wake them. Chainsaws and knives are rather messy and I doubt you could sleep through that!

Crosshair · May 31, 2005, 02:00 PM

luvtoshoot

The door to my room is VERY squeaky. I would at least be awake when they came in. Besides, they would have to break into the house first. Why can't kids just kill themselves and leave everyone else out of it.

jonathon · May 31, 2005, 02:18 PM

Steve, a .22 is very loud inside....

Duxman · May 31, 2005, 02:44 PM

Steve,

I agree with Jonathan - a .22 indoors is very loud. We do not know the exact cirumstances of this murder. And with a knife, it may be "messy" but very silent.

IF properly trained, someone could walk through the house, and either slit the persons throat (no screams), especially while they are asleep, or penetrate the base of the skull - instant kill. No noise.

With sufficient strength - someone can puncture the rib cage with a icepick rupturing the heart - would effectively kill a sleeping person - you would not even know it.

The most dangerous person is someone already in your house if they decide to go nuts and kill you. If you were dead asleep it would be as simple as putting a plastic bag over your face. And duck taping your hands. Carbon monoxide would take care of the rest.

The point is - there is no shortage of ways to kill human beings - guns are just tools to an end. Like almost every other household item.

GTSteve03 · May 31, 2005, 03:37 PM

Quote:

The most dangerous person is someone already in your house if they decide to go nuts and kill you. If you were dead asleep it would be as simple as putting a plastic bag over your face. And duck taping your hands. Carbon monoxide would take care of the rest.

Agreed, and him being family just made it that much more likely for no one to notice until it was too late.

It is a shame he had to go nuts with a gun, but I'm of the mindset that suicide is the cowards way out and it appears that he was too cowardly to want to deal with a messy bunch of murders so he took the easier route with a gun. You do have to admit that it's easier to point and shoot than stab or slit a throat on a sleeping person.

Sad story overall.

chris in va · June 1, 2005, 12:40 AM

Quote:

And duck taping your hands. Carbon monoxide would take care of the rest.

That would be...carbon dioxide.

I don't get it though, wipe out your whole family?

Crosshair · June 1, 2005, 12:49 AM

I guess he listened to the people who said that suicide is not the solution. To think about the family you will leave behind.

Unfortunatly he listened to them and thought about his family. Then decided to spare them the mourning.

WOW, I'm sounding creepy. Sometimes I scare even myself.

luvtoshoot · June 1, 2005, 11:22 AM

I agree if your going to be coward enough to commit suicide then keep everyone else the hell out of it. And I hope you know I was just being sarcastic messin, not being Cocky.

Lol and on that note crosshair keep your WD 40 locked up…..and your gun oil.

Crosshair · June 1, 2005, 03:25 PM

Don't worry luvtoshoot I have a good sense of humor.

Though it would be cool not having to sleep. I could get a second job, spend more time at the range, use that extra money on ammo.

payne · June 1, 2005, 04:12 PM

I just don't understand this. Of course I don't understand many things in this world.

Dwight55 · June 2, 2005, 08:57 PM

It just underscores one thing for sure, . . . you never really do know people. Lovingkindness can beget violence at any time, on any day, and may come from the most trusted source.

Rumors were going around for a while that he really was not the type person to do these murders, . . . someone else had to have done them, . . . but I don't think there was any evidence to support those statements. Our local tv station news has him down for the whole thing.

Right now they are awaiting his sister to get well enough to be able to maybe shed some light on what happened, if at all she knows anything. She was also shot and is still in critical condition at a local hospital.

May God bless,
Dwight

longspurr · June 2, 2005, 11:22 PM

Thing like this are VERY bad but please keep them in perspective. This happens so rarely that it makes the news all over America. Vehicle accidents happen so frequently that they rarely get mentioned outside the local paper. You can have 6 people killed in a 2 or more vehicle accident and never make the regional or nation news. How many people in your state were killed in vehicle accidents over Memorial day?

Don't confuse "deadly" when used execution style with "effective" for self defense. The 22 is deadly - but not good to stop a violent person before they harm you.

Lawyer Daggit · June 5, 2005, 01:40 AM

longspurr it is so rare it attracts media attention and invites copycats. I just wish the media would portray the perpetrators as the weak, pathetic loosers that they are to minimise the risk of copy cats.

WeaponX · June 6, 2005, 12:14 AM

It's an awful story to read about. I only live about 20-30 minutes away from Bellefontaine. It's a terrible thing what happened. It's a shame that the left wing will use this as a tool against firearm owners everywhere. Why can't they just look at the situation and feel sorry and sympathy for those who knew the family. I can't stand anti-gun liberals.

May 31, 2005, 11:02 AM	#1
stephen426 Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2005 Posts: 3,840	So much for .22 LR not being deadly http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8028084/?GT1=6542 Why the hell do these type of things continue to happen? This is so sad and senseless. Why can't he just off himself instead of his whole family? Anti-Gun people are going to have a field day with this one. __________________ The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!

May 31, 2005, 12:48 PM	#5
luvtoshoot Member Join Date: May 4, 2005 Location: Utah Posts: 75	Will that be enough ??? Crosshair according to this story you might want to make a note to yourself to NEVER fall asleep again either. And possible make sure you have no relatives. __________________ shootem up

May 31, 2005, 02:18 PM	#9
jonathon Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2005 Location: Washougal, Washington. YEHAW! Posts: 1,872	Steve, a .22 is very loud inside.... __________________ Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good More CZ M52 info than you can shake a stick at!

June 1, 2005, 11:22 AM	#14
luvtoshoot Member Join Date: May 4, 2005 Location: Utah Posts: 75	Crosshair I agree if your going to be coward enough to commit suicide then keep everyone else the hell out of it. And I hope you know I was just being sarcastic messin, not being Cocky. Lol and on that note crosshair keep your WD 40 locked up…..and your gun oil. __________________ shootem up

June 1, 2005, 04:12 PM	#16
payne Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2005 Location: SE US Posts: 519	I just don't understand this. Of course I don't understand many things in this world. __________________ If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles. - Sun Tzu

May 31, 2005, 11:15 AM	#2
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	I'll bet that as the story develops that there have been signs of problems that everyone ignored .So often with these stories the "nice kid" is actually a "troubled youth" !!!

May 31, 2005, 11:22 AM	#3
Trip20 Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2005 Posts: 2,181	It's depressing.

May 31, 2005, 12:01 PM	#4
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	Note to self. 1. Get handgun off layaway. (Have to wait until payday. ) 2. Get CCW. (Easy in ND ) 3. Test that +P 38 Special I got on clearance at the store. 4. Kill any ***hole that tries to kill me before he does. /Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean someone isn't out to get you.

May 31, 2005, 01:16 PM	#6
Duxman Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2005 Location: VA Posts: 1,294	Lets be realistic here. This is not the atypical scenario of how people use their guns. And the biggest point - if he wanted to do this and had no access to guns, he would have chopped / chainsawed / hacked or rat poisoned them. The method of death is not necessarily at fault here. Are they going to ban axes / chainsaws and rat poison?

May 31, 2005, 02:00 PM	#8
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	luvtoshoot The door to my room is VERY squeaky. I would at least be awake when they came in. Besides, they would have to break into the house first. Why can't kids just kill themselves and leave everyone else out of it.

May 31, 2005, 02:44 PM	#10
Duxman Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2005 Location: VA Posts: 1,294	Steve, I agree with Jonathan - a .22 indoors is very loud. We do not know the exact cirumstances of this murder. And with a knife, it may be "messy" but very silent. IF properly trained, someone could walk through the house, and either slit the persons throat (no screams), especially while they are asleep, or penetrate the base of the skull - instant kill. No noise. With sufficient strength - someone can puncture the rib cage with a icepick rupturing the heart - would effectively kill a sleeping person - you would not even know it. The most dangerous person is someone already in your house if they decide to go nuts and kill you. If you were dead asleep it would be as simple as putting a plastic bag over your face. And duck taping your hands. Carbon monoxide would take care of the rest. The point is - there is no shortage of ways to kill human beings - guns are just tools to an end. Like almost every other household item.

June 1, 2005, 12:49 AM	#13
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	I guess he listened to the people who said that suicide is not the solution. To think about the family you will leave behind. Unfortunatly he listened to them and thought about his family. Then decided to spare them the mourning. WOW, I'm sounding creepy. Sometimes I scare even myself.

June 1, 2005, 03:25 PM	#15
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	Don't worry luvtoshoot I have a good sense of humor. Though it would be cool not having to sleep. I could get a second job, spend more time at the range, use that extra money on ammo.

June 2, 2005, 08:57 PM	#17
Dwight55 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 2,568	It just underscores one thing for sure, . . . you never really do know people. Lovingkindness can beget violence at any time, on any day, and may come from the most trusted source. Rumors were going around for a while that he really was not the type person to do these murders, . . . someone else had to have done them, . . . but I don't think there was any evidence to support those statements. Our local tv station news has him down for the whole thing. Right now they are awaiting his sister to get well enough to be able to maybe shed some light on what happened, if at all she knows anything. She was also shot and is still in critical condition at a local hospital. May God bless, Dwight __________________ www.dwightsgunleather.com If you can breathe, . . . thank God! If you can read, . . . thank a teacher! If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran!

June 2, 2005, 11:22 PM	#18
longspurr Senior Member Join Date: November 8, 2002 Location: On the western shore Posts: 182	Thing like this are VERY bad but please keep them in perspective. This happens so rarely that it makes the news all over America. Vehicle accidents happen so frequently that they rarely get mentioned outside the local paper. You can have 6 people killed in a 2 or more vehicle accident and never make the regional or nation news. How many people in your state were killed in vehicle accidents over Memorial day? Don't confuse "deadly" when used execution style with "effective" for self defense. The 22 is deadly - but not good to stop a violent person before they harm you.

June 5, 2005, 01:40 AM	#19
Lawyer Daggit Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2004 Posts: 1,181	longspurr it is so rare it attracts media attention and invites copycats. I just wish the media would portray the perpetrators as the weak, pathetic loosers that they are to minimise the risk of copy cats.

June 6, 2005, 12:14 AM	#20
WeaponX Member Join Date: April 15, 2005 Posts: 31	Hit's close to home.... It's an awful story to read about. I only live about 20-30 minutes away from Bellefontaine. It's a terrible thing what happened. It's a shame that the left wing will use this as a tool against firearm owners everywhere. Why can't they just look at the situation and feel sorry and sympathy for those who knew the family. I can't stand anti-gun liberals.