Mag disconnect safety

BrokenBottles · November 5, 2012, 12:43 AM

I have a Sig SP2022(aka, SigPRO) and on Sig's website(it's been updated since I bought the pistol so it's not there anymore) and the owners manual, my gun has an L.C.I., decocker, magazine disconnect safety(I forgot the actual term for it but the gun isn't supposed to fire without a magazine in it).
My gun only has a decocker on it... I'm ok with the lack of LCI(models change and guns instock don't get switched out unless it's mandatory, totally ok with that) but I'd prefer to know if my gun can fire without a magazine in it. I can only think of one way to test it: put a mag in with a round in and rack the slide, remove the mag and pull the trigger(obviously this would be done as safely as possible). Something about this seems very sketchy to me and worries me for some reason. Any one know of anything that could go wrong or a better, far safer feeling way?

TL;DR: How do you test to see if a gun has a mag disconnect safety?

jmstr · November 5, 2012, 01:14 AM

A 'safe' way to test this is to remove the magazine, clear the chamber and cock the hammer. AGAIN, CLEAR the CHAMBER FIRST!!!!!

With the magazine out of the pistol and the chamber empty, take a pencil with a rubber eraser. Drop the pencil into the muzzle, with the eraser side down.

Aiming up, and toward a safe direction, pull the trigger.

When I do this the pencil flies about 2-4 feet out of the barrel. I don't think it will even leave the barrel unless the firing pin moves to hit it.

There are two possible ways to make a mag disconnect work that I can think of.

The most obvious is to tie it to the hammer. With the magazine out, the hammer won't fall or pull.

The second way is to tie it to the firing pin block. With the hammer back and magazine out, pulling the trigger could let the hammer fall, but the firing pin block wouldn't move, thus the firing pin wouldn't hit the primer.

I've never heard of the second version, but it might be a method used.

This pencil technique can be done in your home and you don't have to worry about any issues. If the pencil flies, you have no mag disconnect.

AGAIN, empy chamber AFTER removing magazine.

Keep up posted.

PS, if you are in California and this pistol was bought new before 2007, you may not have a LCI or mag disconnect.

My LCI is a small hole in the edge of the chamber of the barrel. I think of it as a 'sight window', as opposed to the newer [post 2007] LCI, which are supposed to stick OUT somehow. And the Mag Disconnect became law for any pistol that had not already been approved for the California gun list before that requirement took effect.

So, if you are in THAT Lancaster, there are ways you could legally have a gun without those features. PM me if you are in Cal and have any questions.

tahunua001 · November 5, 2012, 01:20 AM

what he said^^^

BrokenBottles · November 5, 2012, 06:15 AM

Thank you so much, jmstr! That is a MCUH safer feeling way to go about this.

I just tried it and the pencil only moved about two or three inches, I did two more times just to be sure. Then just to make sure I put a mag in... triple checking the chamber to make sure it wasn't loaded and tested it. The pencil moved the same distance

I think I'm going to email Sig about it when I get home.

I am from that Lancaster by the way.

jmstr · November 5, 2012, 10:50 AM

Have you successfully fired the pistol at a range? Does it fire every time?

The reason I ask is that it behaves the same way with or without the firing pin. The pistols I've tried this in have been Ruger P97, 1911s, Browning Hi Powers, and Baby Eagle. I haven't tried it in a Sig.

It could be that the Sig design doesn't have as much pin contact as the others, so the pencil doesn't move as far as it would with other pistols.

Since it behaves the same way with or without a mag, I'm guessing it does not have a mag disconnect installed.

I have a few pistols. Only 2 have a magazine disconnect. None have the type of LCI that sticks out, but instead they have 'sight windows'.

The california law means that new designs not already for sale in California before 2007 have to have it. It doesn't mean older designs are illegal. Heck, look at any 1911 for sale in a gunshop here. None of them have the Mag Disconnect. All of those models have been 'grandfathered' in and are legal.

Go ahead and call Sig for clarification though to find out exactly what is going on. The info in the owners' manual being different from the gun sounds odd, especially if you bought the gun new.

However, I would personally not worry about it unless the pistol isn't firing. I'd just shoot it and enjoy it.

Sevens · November 5, 2012, 02:29 PM

Quote:

I can only think of one way to test it: put a mag in with a round in and rack the slide, remove the mag and pull the trigger(obviously this would be done as safely as possible). Something about this seems very sketchy to me and worries me for some reason. Any one know of anything that could go wrong or a better, far safer feeling way?

If you are on a shooting range with a loaded handgun and you have your sights on the target, observing all four of Cooper's Rules, you can do this without a magazine in place without worries.

Your pistol will either shoot or it will not shoot. If it shoots, you'll know for certain. This is not anymore dangerous than otherwise shooting your handgun.

carguychris · November 5, 2012, 11:11 PM

Quote:

I just tried it and the pencil only moved about two or three inches... Then just to make sure I put a mag in... triple checking the chamber to make sure it wasn't loaded and tested it. The pencil moved the same distance

Don't sweat it. Many newer guns incorporate a mechanism that limits the firing pin's forward travel, preventing it from throwing pencils quite so far. FWIW my S&W M3904 will throw pencils across the room, but my M&P will only move them 2-3 inches, just like your SP2022, but the M&P has absolutely no problem igniting live ammo.

Quote:

Since it behaves the same way with or without a mag, I'm guessing it does not have a mag disconnect installed.

+1. Although I can't say that they don't exist, I've never had experience with a mag disconnect that allowed the hammer to drop normally when the trigger was pulled with the mag out. All of them either caused the trigger to flop around uselessly (e.g. my S&W M3904), or caused it to lock up solid (e.g. FN Browning 1910).

BrokenBottles · November 6, 2012, 12:09 PM

I have shot it several times(500 rounds so far) so I know it functions properly.
I'm going to the range today or Thursday since Sig wasn't as much help as I was hoping.

Thanks every one for the help.

breakingcontact · November 6, 2012, 05:39 PM

Quote:

If you are on a shooting range with a loaded handgun and you have your sights on the target, observing all four of Cooper's Rules, you can do this without a magazine in place without worries.

This.

November 5, 2012, 12:43 AM	#1
BrokenBottles Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2010 Location: The worst Lancaster in the U.S. Posts: 119	Mag disconnect safety I have a Sig SP2022(aka, SigPRO) and on Sig's website(it's been updated since I bought the pistol so it's not there anymore) and the owners manual, my gun has an L.C.I., decocker, magazine disconnect safety(I forgot the actual term for it but the gun isn't supposed to fire without a magazine in it). My gun only has a decocker on it... I'm ok with the lack of LCI(models change and guns instock don't get switched out unless it's mandatory, totally ok with that) but I'd prefer to know if my gun can fire without a magazine in it. I can only think of one way to test it: put a mag in with a round in and rack the slide, remove the mag and pull the trigger(obviously this would be done as safely as possible). Something about this seems very sketchy to me and worries me for some reason. Any one know of anything that could go wrong or a better, far safer feeling way? TL;DR: How do you test to see if a gun has a mag disconnect safety?

November 5, 2012, 01:20 AM	#3
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	what he said^^^ __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

November 5, 2012, 01:14 AM	#2
jmstr Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA Posts: 1,281	A 'safe' way to test this is to remove the magazine, clear the chamber and cock the hammer. AGAIN, CLEAR the CHAMBER FIRST!!!!! With the magazine out of the pistol and the chamber empty, take a pencil with a rubber eraser. Drop the pencil into the muzzle, with the eraser side down. Aiming up, and toward a safe direction, pull the trigger. When I do this the pencil flies about 2-4 feet out of the barrel. I don't think it will even leave the barrel unless the firing pin moves to hit it. There are two possible ways to make a mag disconnect work that I can think of. The most obvious is to tie it to the hammer. With the magazine out, the hammer won't fall or pull. The second way is to tie it to the firing pin block. With the hammer back and magazine out, pulling the trigger could let the hammer fall, but the firing pin block wouldn't move, thus the firing pin wouldn't hit the primer. I've never heard of the second version, but it might be a method used. This pencil technique can be done in your home and you don't have to worry about any issues. If the pencil flies, you have no mag disconnect. AGAIN, empy chamber AFTER removing magazine. Keep up posted. PS, if you are in California and this pistol was bought new before 2007, you may not have a LCI or mag disconnect. My LCI is a small hole in the edge of the chamber of the barrel. I think of it as a 'sight window', as opposed to the newer [post 2007] LCI, which are supposed to stick OUT somehow. And the Mag Disconnect became law for any pistol that had not already been approved for the California gun list before that requirement took effect. So, if you are in THAT Lancaster, there are ways you could legally have a gun without those features. PM me if you are in Cal and have any questions.

November 5, 2012, 06:15 AM	#4
BrokenBottles Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2010 Location: The worst Lancaster in the U.S. Posts: 119	Thank you so much, jmstr! That is a MCUH safer feeling way to go about this. I just tried it and the pencil only moved about two or three inches, I did two more times just to be sure. Then just to make sure I put a mag in... triple checking the chamber to make sure it wasn't loaded and tested it. The pencil moved the same distance I think I'm going to email Sig about it when I get home. I am from that Lancaster by the way.

November 5, 2012, 10:50 AM	#5
jmstr Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2001 Location: San Joaquin Valley, CA Posts: 1,281	Have you successfully fired the pistol at a range? Does it fire every time? The reason I ask is that it behaves the same way with or without the firing pin. The pistols I've tried this in have been Ruger P97, 1911s, Browning Hi Powers, and Baby Eagle. I haven't tried it in a Sig. It could be that the Sig design doesn't have as much pin contact as the others, so the pencil doesn't move as far as it would with other pistols. Since it behaves the same way with or without a mag, I'm guessing it does not have a mag disconnect installed. I have a few pistols. Only 2 have a magazine disconnect. None have the type of LCI that sticks out, but instead they have 'sight windows'. The california law means that new designs not already for sale in California before 2007 have to have it. It doesn't mean older designs are illegal. Heck, look at any 1911 for sale in a gunshop here. None of them have the Mag Disconnect. All of those models have been 'grandfathered' in and are legal. Go ahead and call Sig for clarification though to find out exactly what is going on. The info in the owners' manual being different from the gun sounds odd, especially if you bought the gun new. However, I would personally not worry about it unless the pistol isn't firing. I'd just shoot it and enjoy it.

November 6, 2012, 12:09 PM	#8
BrokenBottles Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2010 Location: The worst Lancaster in the U.S. Posts: 119	I have shot it several times(500 rounds so far) so I know it functions properly. I'm going to the range today or Thursday since Sig wasn't as much help as I was hoping. Thanks every one for the help.