Thoughts On First AR15

[jimbob24]

Hello tfl members,

To be honest I never thought I'd be in the situation to start a thread like this...

I was always in the mindset of "do what feels right".

Let me give you a little description of where I'm at.

Not at all new to the world of shooting. Been at it for many many years. I always knew I wanted an ar15 when the time was right and about a month ago the time was right.

I've done research for years about every ar ever created Its always been the colt 6920. There are definitely some close runner ups. But something about that gun I love. Don't ask me why, it is what it is. I've fired several different brand names and custom ar's, and to be honest what I'm gonna use it for, the ar's I've fired really don't feel all that different. Maybe I'm just comfortable with style/feel.

Anyway I plan on using it for paper punching and if it came to it home defense. (There are other guns I would grab first if it came to a HD situation) (and of course it would be great for shtf scenario, but with respect to this forum, let's excuse that from any possible topic of discussion) Also, it would be the only AR I'd be able to purchase for quite some time. (Kids are expensive) So I'd really like to make this purchase the right one.

Also, I'd love to build an ar, but not for my first. Hopefully that could happen in the future. But not right now.

So I've got three LGS in my area. One is lucky to have three ar's in stock at one time, the other has some seriously jacked up prices, and my favorite has a great selection of ar's. There a little overpriced at times but great customer service, nice selection, and not too far of a drive. Now I could take a nice drive way out, but it would cost me the price of two boxes of 5.56 to get there and back.

Also, ordering online is just out of the question for me. I'm a hands on guy and never have/never will be comfortable making expensive purchases over the web. Old fashioned I guess, maybe paranoid who knows??

Instead of telling me what you think I should get, I wanna hear from the people who OWN these rifles or have ALOT of experience with them. Don't tell me you have just one and you love it because you own it. Tell me why you choose one over the other for plinking, sleeping next to it, whatever. Give me customer service stories, durability stories anything. It would be great to hear from someone or several people who have both or all three of them. Needle in a haystack I know but a little insight about personal experience helps a bit.

Dilemma is,

Found the colt 6920! For $899! Unfortunately though, its the ugly atacs version and that's all they got. Wanted to get a black ar... Its on hold for now, for about a week. It has no rear sight neither. Which then requires purchasing a BUS or skipping straight ahead to the red dot. And absolutely gonna have to do away with the ugly camo (in the future) Felt so solid though. Just ugly...

Rock River entry tactical. $949... Nice gun. Honestly can't remember if it had a rear sight or not. (Was in heaven handling all the ar's!) Felt really solid though. Always liked rra. All black.

Then I saw the S&W M&P 15. Apparently!! This I news to me, but only the sport, as far as I know doesn't come with dust cover and forward assist. They are both a must for me, and it was cool to see the S&W having that. I like the nitrided barrel. Problem is they want $879 with no rear sight. What is it with this shop and no rear sights??? For $20 more I could get a Colt. But the M&P was all black and was very pretty.

There was also a cheap dpms for about $7 something but felt very cheap.

So owners of s&w and rra, s&w and colt, rra and colt etc etc or all three! Give me your likes dislikes, horror stories, pictures, I don't care, just tell me what you can guys and gals.

Thanks for your time!

[Mobuck]

If you don't know what you'll like, how will you know when you've found it?
I have exactly ONE Colt AR upper(no prancing pony lowers). That Colt upper has the sloppiest chamber of any upper on my rack(s). I'm not saying that's typical, but it's fact.
I can assure you that most any AR assembled by a known brand will provide most shooters with acceptable function and accuracy. I don't suffer from "logo ego" and lean toward function and accuracy over the cute little stamp on the side. You can't see that logo from the shooting position which is where the performance is evident anyway.

[Moomooboo]

I like atacs camo. Thst price is pretty good you listed.

My s&w mp magpul edition came with rear sights, what editions is the s&w you saw?

[Ibmikey]

You can find a 6920 in many outlets for about $950 and they are worth every bit of the money. A 6720 Lightweight has been available at PSA for $799 for many months and I love the weight. You can find lots of other brands that will function properly and have a finish better than a Colt ( all of my colt rifles have forging marks inside the trigger guard and various dings when first unpacked but it does not stop them from shooting). In my racks of AR's the Colt's tend to out shine the rest when it is time to put ammo down range, of course that is after installing a decent trigger and electronic sight.

[Nathan]

Colt 6920 MOE $899+$5.99 ship+ ~$25 transfer

[DubC-Hicks]

Out of those, I'd get the Colt. But if you want black, look around more. I've seen black ones at every Wal-Mart around here for like $899.

BUT, if it was me (and I also hate ordering sight unseen), I'd take a hard look at Palmetto State Armory. I've ordered from them numerous times and have always been highly satisfied, and would recommend them to anyone, over any of the rifles you listed. You'd save a ton of money and have a rifle that's at least the equal of the Colt.

[jimbob24]

Thanks for the replies guys. I forgot to mention why these three are on my list.

Because they are the only ar's believe it or not in my price range. Everything else is more than a grand and up. Just outta my price range. So no 'logo ego' here...

[NJgunowner]

Check out Rebelarms.com . I bought my ar from those guys and it's fantastic. I bought the NJ legal version renegade from a local dealer for $875, retails on their site for $950. I could have gone Colt, S&W, etc but this one has better components in my opinion. Also I don't like the lack of dust cover or forward asssist on the S&W (yeah not super necessary but I like having them) or the 1:9 twist of their barrels. The Colts just seem to be over priced and relying on the Colt brand for their price tag.

[marine6680]

Most basic ARs do not have rear sights included.

The RRA entry tactical will have a rear sight if they include the flat top handle. I had one about 10 years ago. Built well and fit was tight. The only issue was that the cam pin would not slide past the gas key without encouragement. No clearance for it to slide past... It wasn't difficult to do, nor did it cause function issues.


Colts get recommended due to being a known quantity... The ones I seen on the shelf have scuffs and marks from handling during manufacturing... Most other brands attempt to keep these things from happening. They are not a bad rifle, but I prefer other brands.

I also prefer mid gas over carbine gas systems... So it keeps me from recommending the basic Colts.


The nitrided barrel on the S&W is an upgrade over standard chrome lined. And the S&W is built well.


If it was me... I would find a complete lower from a known good maker... PSA, Spikes... There are many good ones for around $300 and less. Then I would get a basic BCM mid gas with standard (not lightweight) barrel or hammer forged for a little more. Add a BCM charging handle and BCG for $70 and you are looking at an upper around the $600-650 range.

Then you would have an AR that I would consider a step up over the others, for the same money. No building or parts gathering... Just mate an upper to a lower and go.


Or you could do the same but with a PSA mid gas upper, and save a couple hundred bucks... And I would say the rifle is as good as the ones you mentioned.

[Nathan]

Maybe I can level set your price range. . . .

PSA $499 +free shipping + transfer fee

[Moomooboo]

Originally Posted by Nathan

Maybe I can level set your price range. . . .

PSA $499 +free shipping + transfer fee

Whats the reaaleability on psa?

Also im guessing you can swap out alot of that for magpul components?

[rickyrick]

I bought a PSA rifle kit and I love it.

Mine has a barrel made by FN
The trigger exceeded my expectations.
The only thing that really seemed cheap was the handguard. But that's really not an issue.

I've never heard anything bad about the quality of their products.
The shipping times are slow, and are an epic internet legend. It's worth waiting for their stuff. They are very open about shipping times... It's plastered in red all over the website.... That being said, some get very upset, I don't see a problem. You get a good product at a phenomenal price... Just don't get it fast... To get a good price, corners have to be cut somewhere, they do it in the shipping department, instead of parts quality.
They don't assemble the parts until you order it.

[marine6680]

I wouldn't get the ptac... It's basically the DPMS of PSA... It's a step down in quality to their other stuff.


They have a lower with magpul stock on sale for less than $200... I would jump on that deal and get a BCM upper. You will definitely have a good rifle then.

[G.barnes]

Another good option is a complete lower and a complete upper. If its not a full rifle you save the 11% excise tax. On a 900 dollar ar that gives you about 100 dollars price difference.

[Stevie-Ray]

I'd go Colt and I did. But mine cost me over a grand quite a few years ago, the year the AWB died. It is a 6721, and I love everything about it, though it came with sights, removable handle, etc. These were taken off and a EOTech installed before it was even shot.

[chris in va]

Don't limit yourself to carbine gas systems. If you just want to punch paper, consider a rifle length which will have much less recoil and have a longer sight radius.

You may also want to consider a Spikes Tactical mid length. Best of both worlds.

BTW if your gun shop is selling the Sport without a rear sight, notify S&W as they can't do that. It should also run about $600 right now.

[Nathan]

I have a PSE premium upper on a lower of my choice, Core 15 BCG, PSE internals and MOE furniture. It is a premium AR, IMO.

Mid length gas system which is probably ideal on a 16" AR. I also thave the lightweight barrel. I find this better for most run & gun type AR shooting.

I have never had any reliability issues, materials are top notch...it is my go to ar. I'm under $1000 with optics.

Swapping for Magpul....think through these things a bit.... Most AR's are VERY servicible from their maker. If you like the MOE furniture, it can be swapped out in seconds, but at some cost. I guess I'm saying most are gtg as sold....maybe a $100 trigger would be a nice step up right away. I like the ADCO RRA trigger, but there are many better options now. If I remember right, I think a trigger swap is like 15 min worth of work.

[jimbob24]

Thanks for the help.

But lemme clarify a couple of things.

Ordering online is out of the question. Just not comfortable with it.

First ar will be a complete rifle.

If there were any other rifles other than the ones I mentioned, I probably would've just bought one of them. But this is what they had. If they had a stag or a spikes or a bushmaster or Windham I probably would have bought it then and there, but this is what they had in my price range which was anything under a grand.

Also the s&w was not the sport model. Forward assist and dust cover are a must.

I was really looking forward to hearing from those of you that owned or had a lot of experience with two or all three of these rifles.

[chris in va]

Also the s&w was not the sport model. Forward assist and dust cover are a must.

Why? Never needed them on my Sport in five years.

[rickyrick]

Ok, a new rifle or upper bought online from a reputable outlet should be fine for an AR. But, I truly understand wanting to see it first.

Should tell you that building your own lower is super simple, and only takes a few minutes once you have the pieces... Could result in significant savings, or better quality than a complete AR. Just depends on how you want to angle it.
Not trying to steer you away from what you want, people love to give you options. In the AR market, you have lots of options.

Buying a complete rifle is ok as well...
Just go with want you want, I tend to research every purchase over $50 as well.

[NJgunowner]

They didn't happen to have the Ruger AR did they, I like that one too . If your choice is between the S&W and Colt, then I'd probably get the Colt unless the S&W's barrel was 1:7 or 1:8 twist, then I'd get the S&W

[rickyrick]

Dust covers and forward assists are intended for extended engagements in extremely harsh environments.

Dust covers are a neat place for engravings. I've never needed a forward assist while in the army. As a civilian I don't plan on firing a weapon retrieved from mud.

[marine6680]

Get the S&W if that is the case. The nitrided barrel us a step up.

I liked my RRA entry tactical, but if I had the choice of the three you listed... It would be the Smith for the barrel.

As far as ordering things online... Well that is your choice.

But just so you know... The risk of buying online is the same as any monetary transaction you do in person that involves payment other than cash...

Actually no... Buying online is SAFER than buying physically from a store using electronic means like cards and checks. (many places do electronic checks even if you physical write one) the encryption methods used by all reputable online stores are safer than what brick and mortar stores use to process the transaction.

If you have a credit card or bank card and use it at stores... You are running the same risk as buying online. (the risk is not high) As the recent target and home Depot hacks show, even stores are vulnerable... Those were hacks at the store level that gained the hacker access to the store's networks and by extension the network company wide.

Checks are not invulnerable... Nor your bank account. ATMs can get hacked, or card skimmers installed, and everyone that uses the machine has their card info stolen. In fact card skimmers can be installed on any machine that takes card payment... I have read of several documented cases.

Basically dealing in cash only and always is the only way to avoid electronic theft methods.

There are credit cards that allow you to generate single use card numbers for buying online if you so choose.

[SVO]

I have one of the old Bushmasters, a recent Colt 6920, a M&P-15 (not the sport model) and a recent Windham. Have no experience with a Rock River, but they appear to be well built guns. To be truthful, there is probably not a dime's worth of difference between the ones I own. I think you would be well served by any of the choices you listed. Pick the one you like best and can get the best deal on.

[rickyrick]

Sorry, I misread. I read buying online is NOT out of the question. But you wrote ...out of the question"

Really then, just handle what's available and buy the one you like.
Provably won't be much difference in the choices you've given.

Honestly it's a tough choice, I'd say the SW since it has the features you want.

No I don't qualify as an owner of those choices, but I've been around... I'm entering the pre-geezer era lol, the the time of your life (just after midlife crisis) you wake up and try to figure out why a random body part hurts.