Inebriated/drunk/alcohol/beer Home Defense

Jofaba · April 26, 2009, 06:11 PM

I used all those terms because I searched them all to ten pages and found nothing.

My question is, if you have been drinking, and end up shooting someone in personal home defense, where do you stand?

I specifically chose home defense because it leaves the least amount of questionable red tape problems. You're home asleep, after drinking, and wake up to an intruder trying to break in, and are forced to defend yourself with lethal force.

Obviously it's up to the jury to really decide and that's unpredictable, but to what level do you feel that using a firearm for personal defense while intoxicated comes into play?

I'm a guy who maybe likes his liquor more than others, but on a personal level I've never had a hangover (I'll be 28 this July and drink beer and vodka mostly), and my liver seems to process the alcohol extremely fast. I can drink a 12 pack, go to bed at 1am, wake up at 6, and be ready to greet the day with a whistle and dance routine, even so far as to jump on the exercise bike and watch the news with a smile on my face, at full volume (to compensate for hearing over my wheezing).

If you'd be justified to use lethal force in the same situation while sober, will you be prosecuted differently if you test as inebriated? I drink daily and while that probably won't change, I wanted to start a discussion as to the combination of justified self defense versus soberness.

To put this thread into context, this post was made after six PBR's and four shots of cheap vodka consumed over the course of around three hours. I do seem to stand out as someone fairly competent after quite a bit of alcohol. 5'5" 185lbs.

orchidhunter · April 26, 2009, 06:15 PM

You will be standing in the same spot, drunk or sober. orchidhunter

cjw3cma · April 26, 2009, 07:05 PM

Quote:

To put this thread into context, this post was made after six PBR's and four shots of cheap vodka consumed over the course of around three hours. I do seem to stand out as someone fairly competent after quite a bit of alcohol. 5'5" 185lbs.

Based on your above quoted statement, any court in this land would see you as being legally intoxicated and you would need the best defense lawyer all your money could buy in order to sway public opinion that you were drunk and killed an intruder when if not under the influence you might have not done so.
Advice is to save up a few bucks, get a big dog to scare off anyone thinking about entering your abode while you consume the quantity that you say is your regular amount.

Jofaba · April 26, 2009, 07:23 PM

That's not my "regular amount", it was a statement meant to show how alcohol doesn't affect me the same way it would another average person of my height and weight.

I'm not typing all:

yo dudz igotzwick d drunkz tongith awsesome chiks z was theresz!

My regular amount is drunk, which means whatever it takes over the course of the night to reach that amount. Yes, I am willing to admit that I am an alcoholic, and that is why it's pertinent for me to be asking this.

As of this writing I've had 8 beers and while I haven't been keeping count (its harder as there aren't cans to count), around 7 shots of vodka. My point is that I have a very high tolerance, and in any kind of court proceedings, I would appear to be beyond any understanding of competent decision making.

skydiver3346 · April 26, 2009, 07:23 PM

Well, you may be able to dring a 12 pack and Vodka now, then get up and go to work the next day with no problems (but you are still young)....Wait a few years and maybe it will be different.

At any rate, if someone breaks into your home, that is a home invasion. As such, you have the right to defend yourself/family. They are committing a felony and endangering your life, period. If you do shoot someone who did break in your home, then it will be justified (unless they are outside your house, trying to break in). Of course if you are falling down drunk, etc. you will probably still need a very good attorney because of the negative police report stating that your were intoxicated, etc. Still should be justified I would think.

Jofaba · April 26, 2009, 07:35 PM

Thanks for the response skydiver. I figured as much as was hoping for pretty much that kind of confirmation from a few people. Of course, even if everyone responded, I should really seek out the advice of a lawyer before the situation, but was looking for some responses, and while my situation may be somewhat extreme, I found no threads, read that as zero, relating to the subject.

My personal angle on this may be unique, I am used to getting questioning stares and scoffs of disbelief when people hear how much I can drink considering my acute stature, and I really don't care whether anyone believes me or whatever their thoughts are about me. My point is if someone were to break into my apartment with a gun at 4am and I shot them in self defense, what kind of red tape horror would I be facing if I had a 12 pack plus in my system when the police arrived?

ar15chase · April 26, 2009, 07:37 PM

I would be more worried about my "drunken bullet" going of course of the intended target. I have been drunk many times. But I have always had a fear of being passed out and not waking up, when the intruder comes in. Which would render me useless. Or waking up still drunk and not hitting the BG. Always something to think about. Even though you dont feel drunk, your motor skills will still deteriorate, wether you know it or not. I DON"T think alcohol and firearms mix, dont get me wrong, but if I had been drinking all night and a man broke into my home, the last thing I would worry about was getting in trouble for defending myself and family. I have seen this quoted many times on this forum. " It's better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6"

zoomie · April 26, 2009, 07:45 PM

Get mad at me if you want, but I think you have problems now that need to be addressed, instead of worrying about the minuscule probability of a post-binge home invasion. Your posts sound very immature and arrogant, with a hint of self-deception. Get help with your binging habits and you won't have to worry about what a jury is going to say when you blow a .15 after an otherwise legal shoot.

Jofaba · April 26, 2009, 07:49 PM

and I love that quote.

Absolutely alcohol and guns do not mix. I have a friend that likes to smoke pot prior to the drive to the range and it's a 40 minute trip, and I stay far away from him when he does, and I do some checks against his conciousness before I let him shoot near me. He's sober by the time we start loading up but I always test him for his and my own safety.

I'd never recreationally shoot even after a beer.I'd never recreationally shoot after any kind of feeling of reality disconnect.

ar15chase · April 26, 2009, 07:55 PM

WHY WOULD YOU GO TO THE RANGE WITH A PERSON WHO YOU NOW HAS BEEN SMOKING POT? Be safe, calm down on the drinking, and find new friends.:barf: You dont sound like a responsible gun owner.

Jofaba · April 26, 2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Get mad at me if you want, but I think you have problems now that need to be addressed, instead of worrying about the minuscule probability of a post-binge home invasion. Your posts sound very immature and arrogant, with a hint of self-deception. Get help with your binging habits and you won't have to worry about what a jury is going to say when you blow a .15 after an otherwise legal shoot

I'm not mad at all, but I will approach each part of your post individually in order to appropriately respond.

1. How am I immature and arrogant?
2. How am I self-deceptive?
3. How am I binging?

I think that I am addressing any future issue fairly responsibly. I realize that not everyone approves of an alcoholic lifestyle, but you may be gauging me fairly inaccurately.

I won't get into why I do what I do or why I do, but I will say that if you were to speak with me individually as a person to person conversation that you may see where I'm coming from. I am, at least to a degree, unique to the standard held to others of equal weakness.

Regardless, my question is based on the legal aspect of an intoxicated personal defense situation, and regardless of the personal aspect, i think that the answer probably remains the same.

vranasaurus · April 26, 2009, 08:05 PM

The fact that you don't realize how much alcohol affects you is a bit scary. The thought that alcohol doesn't affect you or it takes more than everyone else is the belief of every alcoholic I have ever known.

Just because you can type on a message board after drinking is not evidence that alcohol doesn't affect you. You just don't realize how alcohol does affect you. Which is a much bigger problem than the unlikely event of having to use a gun to defend your home.

As to your original question anytime you have been drinking or show signs of intoxication your actions are going to be put under more scrutiny.

Jofaba · April 26, 2009, 08:06 PM

Quote:

WHY WOULD YOU GO TO THE RANGE WITH A PERSON WHO YOU NOW HAS BEEN SMOKING POT? Be safe, calm down on the drinking, and find new friends. You dont sound like a responsible gun owner.

Do you know much about pot? It's similar to asking someone how comfortable they feel shooting with someone who drank a beer an hour before going to the range. Ever done that? I don't like it and it's happened very infrequently, but can you seriously tell me that you've never shot with someone who had beer with their lunch in the last hour or two? Even if you can, you're being high and mighty. I'm pretty sure most of us have winced at a few indiscretions with friends or relatives who made bad decisions earlier in the day.

I don't agree with it and wouldn't do it myself, but I don't let those around me who have had altering chemicals recently to access dangerous items around me until I am sure that they are sober.

And how does the decisions of others enter the conversation of how responsible I am personally as a gun owner? I befriend a pothead and thus shouldn't be trusted with a gun? Some interesting logic you've got there.

KLRANGL · April 26, 2009, 08:11 PM

Quote:

WHY WOULD YOU GO TO THE RANGE WITH A PERSON WHO YOU NOW HAS BEEN SMOKING POT? Be safe, calm down on the drinking, and find new friends. You dont sound like a responsible gun owner.

hahahaha, find new friends... classic...
Dont forget kids. Smoking pot and drinking makes you a baaad person

Jofaba · April 26, 2009, 08:11 PM

Quote:

The fact that you don't realize how much alcohol affects you is a bit scary. The thought that alcohol doesn't affect you or it takes more than everyone else is the belief of every alcoholic I have ever known.

Just because you can type on a message board after drinking is not evidence that alcohol doesn't affect you. You just don't realize how alcohol does affect you. Which is a much bigger problem than the unlikely event of having to use a gun to defend your home.

As to your original question anytime you have been drinking or show signs of intoxication your actions are going to be put under more scrutiny.

I never said alcohol doesn't affect me. It amazes me how some of you are attacking things I never said, or a person that I associate with yet am not myself. I mean, I can see the comments in and of themselves, but not in context to the theme of the original post.

If I was high and shot someone, I'd agree with throwing me in teh slammer and throwing away the key. Drugs are illegal, as is shooting someone (if you remove the self defense aspect).

I'm talking about defending myself while legally intoxicated, especially if declared mentally competent.

KLRANGL · April 26, 2009, 08:20 PM

Quote:

I'm talking about defending myself while legally intoxicated, especially if declared mentally competent.

Yeah, but did you expect much less from some people? Why stick to the topic at hand when you can bash someone from across the internetz...

Personally, I think defending yourself is defending yourself. It will be a bit tricky to make sure you are actually in fear of your life (the fog of beer), but when it comes down to it, you just gota do what you need to do to stay alive. At least you will still be alive to go to trial...

Jofaba · April 26, 2009, 08:27 PM

I'll go the extra mile to say that someone who smokes tobacco regularly and hasn't had a cigarette in several hours is more dangerous than someone who smoked pot an hour earlier. It's a matter of context. Legal or illegal, urges and chemicals cause problems, no doubt. I shoot sober, always do, always will. Enjoy your high horse if that's what makes you happy.

Al Norris · April 26, 2009, 08:33 PM

Question was asked and answered.

Everything else was/is ad hominem and off topic.

This is not an AA forum (yes, there are such). Anyone that has a problem with this, use the PM system or email.

Closed.

April 26, 2009, 06:11 PM	#1
Jofaba Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2009 Posts: 322	Inebriated/drunk/alcohol/beer Home Defense I used all those terms because I searched them all to ten pages and found nothing. My question is, if you have been drinking, and end up shooting someone in personal home defense, where do you stand? I specifically chose home defense because it leaves the least amount of questionable red tape problems. You're home asleep, after drinking, and wake up to an intruder trying to break in, and are forced to defend yourself with lethal force. Obviously it's up to the jury to really decide and that's unpredictable, but to what level do you feel that using a firearm for personal defense while intoxicated comes into play? I'm a guy who maybe likes his liquor more than others, but on a personal level I've never had a hangover (I'll be 28 this July and drink beer and vodka mostly), and my liver seems to process the alcohol extremely fast. I can drink a 12 pack, go to bed at 1am, wake up at 6, and be ready to greet the day with a whistle and dance routine, even so far as to jump on the exercise bike and watch the news with a smile on my face, at full volume (to compensate for hearing over my wheezing). If you'd be justified to use lethal force in the same situation while sober, will you be prosecuted differently if you test as inebriated? I drink daily and while that probably won't change, I wanted to start a discussion as to the combination of justified self defense versus soberness. To put this thread into context, this post was made after six PBR's and four shots of cheap vodka consumed over the course of around three hours. I do seem to stand out as someone fairly competent after quite a bit of alcohol. 5'5" 185lbs.

April 26, 2009, 07:23 PM	#5
skydiver3346 Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 1,222	Drinking and shooting? Well, you may be able to dring a 12 pack and Vodka now, then get up and go to work the next day with no problems (but you are still young)....Wait a few years and maybe it will be different. At any rate, if someone breaks into your home, that is a home invasion. As such, you have the right to defend yourself/family. They are committing a felony and endangering your life, period. If you do shoot someone who did break in your home, then it will be justified (unless they are outside your house, trying to break in). Of course if you are falling down drunk, etc. you will probably still need a very good attorney because of the negative police report stating that your were intoxicated, etc. Still should be justified I would think.

April 26, 2009, 07:37 PM	#7
ar15chase Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2009 Location: Shallowater, Texas Posts: 444	I would be more worried about my "drunken bullet" going of course of the intended target. I have been drunk many times. But I have always had a fear of being passed out and not waking up, when the intruder comes in. Which would render me useless. Or waking up still drunk and not hitting the BG. Always something to think about. Even though you dont feel drunk, your motor skills will still deteriorate, wether you know it or not. I DON"T think alcohol and firearms mix, dont get me wrong, but if I had been drinking all night and a man broke into my home, the last thing I would worry about was getting in trouble for defending myself and family. I have seen this quoted many times on this forum. " It's better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6" __________________ A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. Last edited by ar15chase; April 26, 2009 at 07:43 PM.

April 26, 2009, 07:55 PM	#10
ar15chase Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2009 Location: Shallowater, Texas Posts: 444	WHY WOULD YOU GO TO THE RANGE WITH A PERSON WHO YOU NOW HAS BEEN SMOKING POT? Be safe, calm down on the drinking, and find new friends.:barf: You dont sound like a responsible gun owner. __________________ A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares about more than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

April 26, 2009, 06:15 PM	#2
orchidhunter Junior member Join Date: December 1, 2008 Posts: 320	You will be standing in the same spot, drunk or sober. orchidhunter

April 26, 2009, 07:35 PM	#6
Jofaba Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2009 Posts: 322	Thanks for the response skydiver. I figured as much as was hoping for pretty much that kind of confirmation from a few people. Of course, even if everyone responded, I should really seek out the advice of a lawyer before the situation, but was looking for some responses, and while my situation may be somewhat extreme, I found no threads, read that as zero, relating to the subject. My personal angle on this may be unique, I am used to getting questioning stares and scoffs of disbelief when people hear how much I can drink considering my acute stature, and I really don't care whether anyone believes me or whatever their thoughts are about me. My point is if someone were to break into my apartment with a gun at 4am and I shot them in self defense, what kind of red tape horror would I be facing if I had a 12 pack plus in my system when the police arrived?

April 26, 2009, 07:45 PM	#8
zoomie Senior Member Join Date: January 23, 2006 Location: GA Posts: 1,864	Get mad at me if you want, but I think you have problems now that need to be addressed, instead of worrying about the minuscule probability of a post-binge home invasion. Your posts sound very immature and arrogant, with a hint of self-deception. Get help with your binging habits and you won't have to worry about what a jury is going to say when you blow a .15 after an otherwise legal shoot.

April 26, 2009, 07:49 PM	#9
Jofaba Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2009 Posts: 322	and I love that quote. Absolutely alcohol and guns do not mix. I have a friend that likes to smoke pot prior to the drive to the range and it's a 40 minute trip, and I stay far away from him when he does, and I do some checks against his conciousness before I let him shoot near me. He's sober by the time we start loading up but I always test him for his and my own safety. I'd never recreationally shoot even after a beer.I'd never recreationally shoot after any kind of feeling of reality disconnect.

April 26, 2009, 08:05 PM	#12
vranasaurus Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2008 Posts: 1,184	The fact that you don't realize how much alcohol affects you is a bit scary. The thought that alcohol doesn't affect you or it takes more than everyone else is the belief of every alcoholic I have ever known. Just because you can type on a message board after drinking is not evidence that alcohol doesn't affect you. You just don't realize how alcohol does affect you. Which is a much bigger problem than the unlikely event of having to use a gun to defend your home. As to your original question anytime you have been drinking or show signs of intoxication your actions are going to be put under more scrutiny.

April 26, 2009, 08:27 PM	#17
Jofaba Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2009 Posts: 322	I'll go the extra mile to say that someone who smokes tobacco regularly and hasn't had a cigarette in several hours is more dangerous than someone who smoked pot an hour earlier. It's a matter of context. Legal or illegal, urges and chemicals cause problems, no doubt. I shoot sober, always do, always will. Enjoy your high horse if that's what makes you happy.

April 26, 2009, 08:33 PM	#18
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	Question was asked and answered. Everything else was/is ad hominem and off topic. This is not an AA forum (yes, there are such). Anyone that has a problem with this, use the PM system or email. Closed.