I am wondering....

[big daddy 9mm]

I was browsing the midway reloading site and I was wondering two things:

1) can 44mag bullets be used also for 444 marlin????

2) I noticed that this site www.chestnutridge.com has brass cheaper than midway but its once fired. my question is 'how much hassle is it to prepare the brass to being like new like midway sells it. Am i correct in thinking that there is these steps to reload?? clean, trim,(do I have to do this every time I reload the case) primer, than powder, then bullet, wa-lah we have ammo? and how many times can I reload the smae case. am I correct in thinking in that you do not have to buy new brass every time. can someone sxplain a little bit about the trimming process. it sounds tedious. one more thing, is primer a goo or what exactly is it. and what do you call the piece of metal that the firing pin hits.

I really do appreciate you guys time



I would think that the you save the real bucks when you already have the brass and you just buy powder and bullets and the primer. is this correct???

[Mike Irwin]

1. Yes. That was one of the primary purposes of the .444 when it first came out and was loaded with 240 gr. bullets.

2. You pretty much have the basic steps down. How often you can use a case is a complete and total crap shoot. Relatively low pressure cases like .38 Spl. and .45 can last for ever, while high intensity rifle cases might only last 5 reloadings.

I'm thinking that with a straight walled case like the .444 you should be able to get quite a few loads.

Trimming? You only need to do it when you need to do it.

[big daddy 9mm]

would 41mag be considered a high pressure load? I would like to reload 45-70 or 444. I have heard that if you reload you should go with 45-70 and if you dont buy 444. I really like lighter bullets so I would like to go with the 444. and its faster which I like. and dont bullets exspand after firing so how does it work out with loading them into revolvers. it is a pain in the butt or does the reloading resize them??? thanks do nickle cases have any advantage over the brass ones???

[Dave R]

Answering some of your questions.

-How often cas you re-use brass? As Mike said, varies by caliber and load. AT LEAST 4 times, unless you are doing something wrong. I have some .308 cases loaded 8 times.

-How often do you have to trim? Again, varies by load and caliber. Probably every third time for centerfire rifle brass. I just measure half dozen cases out of a batch of 50, and if any measure long, I trim the batch. Yeah, its a pain. Gives me Popeye arms.

and dont bullets exspand after firing so how does it work out with loading them into revolvers.

???? You never re-use bullets, only brass. The bullets come the right size. Brass gets re-sized to proper dimensions in your resizing/decapping die.

I have heard that if you reload you should go with 45-70 and if you dont buy 444.

I would think just the opposite. There are many .45-70 loads on the market, so you can buy one you like. But there are few .444 loads. So if you reload, you can make what you want for .444, but you probably can't find it "off the shelf". Given the price of either ammo, though, it makes financial sense to load both of them.

Nickel cases vs. brass? I dunno, the nickel cases are just nickle plating over brass. They seem to be "slipperier", so they are easier to resize without using lube in a carbide resizing die...

I've also heard they are more brittle, so they'll wear out faster, but I don't have enough experience with them to know, myself. Use 'em if you got 'em.

I would think that the you save the real bucks when you already have the brass and you just buy powder and bullets and the primer. is this correct???

Exactly. Once you get there, the only way to cut costs further is by using cheaper bullets, or casting your own. The biggest single cost component in reloading is the cost of the bullet.

[Leftoverdj]

Big Daddy, I would not want to shoot a bear or even a deer with a jacketed bullet designed for the .44 Mag from a .444. Just for practice, they would work fine, but they are designed to expand at pistol velocities and the .4444 will push them 1000 fps faster. I'd use the 265 grainers designed for the .444 or cast bullets for most hunting.

I shoot a .45-70 instead of a .444, and case life seems indefinite. Might be a bit shorter for the .444 because that operates at higher pressures, but they should still have a long life. My rule is that I discard cases when they need to be trimmed for the third time. That may be never because straight cases don't grow the way bottlenecked do. When I start getting neck splits, I either discard or anneal. Generally discard the easily available cases.

Only use I have for nickeled brass is in Handi rifles. They have crappy ejection and the slicker nickel helps prevent stuck cases.

[big daddy 9mm]

I feel stupid, I meant to ask about the resizing of brass, not bullets. I am not used to being specific yet in the terms. I am not very knowlegable about the pressure. am I correct in thinking that calibers like 45 acp and 45-70 and 38 would be low pressure and calibers like 357 and 41 and 9mm would be high pressure. is there a exact thing that determines the pressure or is it just a little bit of everything, bullet weight, bullet speed, and so forth??? I like the feeling of light bullets rather than heavier ones mostly for target shooting and I was also wondering; what is the lightest common bullet you can get for the 45.70

am I lso correct in thinking that a average load in 45.70 has about eh kick of a 12 gauge??

[Leftoverdj]

Lightest common bullet for the .45-70 is 300 grains. Normal factory loads for the .45-70 are very closely comparable to 12 gauge target loads. The .357, .41 Mag, and 9 mm may be considered high pressure loads in pistols, but they are moderate pressure for rifles. A whole bunch of things affect the pressure of a given load. Stick with the loading manuals and you will be all right.

The sermon I preach to beginners is to keep it simple until you get the hang of it. Pick a powder and bullet and a load with a lot of leeway on both sides. It is unlikely to be the BEST load for your gun, but it should be plenty good for practical purposes. After you have loaded and shot a thousand rounds of one basic load, you will have the fundamentals down and can start getting a bit fancier.

At the start, if you only have one powder on hand, you can't use the wrong powder. If you only have one weight of bullet, you can't use the wrong bullet.

[big daddy 9mm]

do you guys keep track exactly of how many times you have reloaded the cases
or do you just keep in eye on the condition of the case?? do hotter loads wear out cases quicker???

[Leftoverdj]

I keep track of how often I trim my cases, but not how often I have shot them. Much of what I shoot is low pressure straight wall stuff that never needs trimming, and I shoot it until I get neck cracks.

The high pressure bottleneck cases give me three or four shots between trimmings and I junk them when they need to be trimmed the third time. What you are trimming is brass that has flowed forward under pressure, making the side walls thinner. Keep going long enough or overwork your brass in the sizing process and you will get case head separations.

[Mike Irwin]

Just a point about the bullets .44 Mag./.444 Marlin...

The intention was that the Marlin would be loaded with .44 caliber flat point bullets, not hollowpoints. Most flat point bullets in use in the 1960s when the .444 was introduced would work just fine in either gun.

Today's hollow points for .44 Mag. would likely shred at .444 Marlin velocities.

[Edward429451]

Would lead bullets be acceptable in a .444? Or would that micro groove rifling preclude their use? What about gaschecked bullets?

[big daddy 9mm]

what exactly is trimming. so low pressure loads dont need trimmed.... whats the details on trimming...



am I correct in thinking that firing a cartridge lengthens the case a tiny bit so that is iwhat it is .....

[Edward429451]

Trimming is shortening the case to be within factory specs. There are trimmers for cordless drills (Lee), Table mount hand trimmers (Lyman RCBS etc...), and tablemount power trimmers (rcbs Lyman?), Press mount trimmers (Dillon).

Load manuals give the max length for cases and the trim to length. Trim to length is usually .010 shorter than max.

Cases longer than max will get you into trouble with rifle cartridges, with revolver cartridges it'll cause no pressure problems but when you crimp they wont all line up with the crimping groove and make your ammo look less than perfecto but will usually still shoot good unless its way off and interferes with the crimp.

[Mike Irwin]

Microgroove barrels have a spotty reputation with lead. Some people have reported excellent results, others have reported no end of frustration, with microgroove barrels and lead bullets.

I think it's interesting to note, though, that Marlin went back to traditional rifling styles on its Cowboy guns.

[Edward429451]

Thanks Mike.

[dakotashooter2]

big daddy

I would suggest you get your hands on a couple of loading manuals and read through them a couple of times. They will answer many of your questions.

Manuals..........

Lyman
Speer
Nosler
Barnes
Sierra
Lee
and several others