Two day handgun class at Front Sight

Keifer · February 16, 2000, 06:57 PM

Last weekend was the second most enjoyable one I believe I've ever spent. The first was my honeymoon of course. Last weekend I spent Friday learning how to shoot a submachine gun and spent Saturday and Sunday learning how to shoot my Glock 30.
The subgun course was the free one offered by Front Sight. I posted about it in the full auto forum.
I spent Saturday and Sunday learning how to properly shoot my Glock. Both days were filled with lectures, dry practice, hot practice, and plenty of direct guidance from the six instructors for my class of about twenty five shooters. I have been around guns for a long time and thought I had a pretty good idea of how to use them. I was wrong. From the Saturday morning lecture, to the close of class Sunday, I learned continuously. When the front sight flew off of my Glock 30, the staff was ready with a Glock 21 to allow me to finish the course. The instructors were polite, precise, and knew how to push the class hard enough to achieve maximum results without leaving anyone behind. I worked hard at concentrating (something I'm rather inept at) on the procedures as taught and dry practiced in the evenings in my hotel room. At the end of Sunday, we were given one final drill - from the holster - double tap to the thoracic cavity - failure to stop - one shot to the cranial occular cavity. I completed it perfectly. I wasn't the fastest in the class, but I followed the taught procedures and walked away knowing that I have the tools to become as fast as I possibly can while not endangering either myself with improper gun handling or others by sending errant rounds down range.
I cannot reccomend the Front Sight curriculum or staff highly enough. The facility they are in the process of building are definitely first rate too.

Bryan Whited · February 17, 2000, 09:04 AM

If you think the 2 day class is good then the 4 day class must he heaven.
Keep up the dry practice!

Gorthaur · February 17, 2000, 02:24 PM

Yeah, the four day is a blast. I took it in Bakersfield. It's probably even better at the new site, with the reactive targets and whatnot.

On the third day, we had one-on-one competition with steel fall-over targets: draw from holster, head shot to hostage-taker target without hitting hostage, COM shot to second target.

Fourth day had lots of shoot/no-shoot sims, "tactical" sims with red guns, and the timed tests.

If you've already taken the two-day class, you don't have to repeat the lectures. The lectures are all in the morning in the four-day. So you can come in at 9:00 instead of 8:00, and spend some time in supervised dry-fire before range time.

George Hill · February 18, 2000, 03:40 AM

What was your impression of the instructors?

Gorthaur · February 18, 2000, 07:01 PM

I thought the instructors were very good. The lead range instructor for my class was Brad Ackman, who was an instructor under Col. Cooper for nine years. They don't emphasize "war stories" at Front Site, but several of the instructors were active LEO. One of them was delayed for awhile, because his SWAT team was deployed.

I haven't been to any other training places, but I've heard that at most places, the instructors don't do any shooting. At Front Site, they don't hesitate to demonstrate when necessary.

Of course, there're two main goals to an introductory defense class: build confidence with gun handling skills; and all the ramifications and consequences of using deadly force for self-defense. Naish did all of the lectures, when I was there. He did a very thorough job of it.

------------------
Protect your Right to Keep and Bear Arms!
No On Knight - No On 22

Keifer · February 18, 2000, 07:39 PM

The instruction was outstanding. Each of the six instructors in my class was courteous, friendly and very competent. Brad Ackman was the lead instructor but was losing his voice so Wes LaHullier took over most of the lectures. All of the instructors shot at one time or another to demonstrate techniques for individual students so all the stundents knew the instructors weren't just repeating doctrine. One of the Front Sight instructor policies is that until a prospective instructor is able to demonstrate all the skills taught on demand, he can't teach. They are also required to maintain their proficiency. On day two, half of the class was at another range running through a simulator so there was room on the firing line for the instructors to step up and practice. Brad Ackman stood next to me and put a double tap into his target before I had my sights aligned. That man is greased lightning! You can tell he practices a lot because all the blueing is worn off the slide of his 1911. The staff that taught the subgun class showed the same level of professionalism.

Gorthaur · February 18, 2000, 07:51 PM

You think Brad is something, you should see Majyk "Magic" Sobiesiak (that's better than my first try at the spelling

), who's an instructor in the Handgun Combat Master Prep class.

------------------
Protect your Right to Keep and Bear Arms!
No On Knight - No On 22

[This message has been edited by Gorthaur (edited February 19, 2000).]

George Hill · February 21, 2000, 01:37 AM

That sounds good.
The Instructors are the KEY to a good class... Ergo - key to a good school. Can you give us a detailed report about the whole experiance? Not many have been to Front Sight. I am curious.

fastforty · February 21, 2000, 04:25 AM

Ask ME!! Ask ME!!!

Gorthaur · February 21, 2000, 03:22 PM

Alright, fastforty, what do you think of the instructors? Are you, in fact, an instructor at Front Sight?

fastforty · February 22, 2000, 02:32 AM

Well, let's see....ok. I've attended close to a dozen courses at Front Sight, many of them multiple times. I was really jazzed after attending my first course (4-Day Defensive Handgun). Knew that I had to attend most, if not all of the courses offered. Thought about the First Family program for about a week (which basically allows you to take all of the courses that you wish as many times as you want, free of further charge for the rest of your life), pestered the daylights outta Dr. Piazza on the phone during that time. He was very patient, and never tried to pressure me. I contacted several other students and First Family members before making the decision to join up. I've been taking a course almost every month since I signed up a year ago, and am still just as excited every time as I was the first time. Dr. Piazza has put together quite a corriculum. His instructors are very adept, and rapidly took me from a novice of 30 years to the edge of Combat Master in very short order.

My participation here at TFL is purely for personal fulfillment, I do not represent Front Sight in any official capacity. I only relate my personal experiences, which in themselves, have been very fulfilling.

------------------
The Bible is my lawbook. I turn the other cheek when applicable, and spend the rest of my days resisting evil at every front, until I have breathed my last breath.

BigT · February 23, 2000, 02:34 AM

Just one more opinion. I took the 4 day handgun course last October. It's the most amazing feeling, about the second day you begin to feel comfortable, I mean really comfortable with your handgun. I've been shooting more than 20 years, but until this course, I wasn't completely at ease. I guess that comes from most shooting ranges where you can't draw and fire. You stand at a counter, no drawing allowed, and you must shoot slow-fire. My holster time was mostly hunting and plinking, not really drawing to fire. Believe me, by the second day you are getting accustomed to drawing and firing! The instructors were professional, courteous and quite friendly. They really add to the class. One of my instructors brought his MP-5 for some of us to try out. What a kick! This was early, before class.
Needless to say, I became a first family member. I'll be attending the 4 day shotgun course towards the end of March. Hopefully, I can get back for the 4 day rifle in the fall.
It's expensive, but you get the same feeling of security that you got after finally buying that nice big fire-proof safe you put off for years as the gun collection grew! Please feel free to ask any other questions, I'm no expert but my first experiences have been great. I also attended the free machine gun class last October.
As a side note, I had 2 people in my class from England. The man had only shot rifle and shotgun, so this was his first experience with a handgun. The girl had never fired a weapon of any kind. I spent the first day being quite concerned, since I was right between them! However, the instructors were right there, and by the end of the second day they both were much more comfortable with the Glocks, getting good hits and doing the drills, etc. They had a very positive experience and it was educational to see the instructors work with "newbies". They really have hired the right people for instructors, offering to meet early for extra training and being available during lunch and breaks to talk or work with students. Sorry for the long post..
HTH
Tom

George Hill · February 23, 2000, 04:39 AM

BigT - Dont feel sorry...
All of us can get long winded at times!
And that wasnt even a quarter of what some of can go on! Just look at some of the rants Dennis can take...

Oh - and Welcome to TFL...

A4MERSAS · February 24, 2000, 02:28 AM

Do yourself a favor and train as many places as you can. I recently completed some private training with my lads at a company called HALO GROUP in Northern Calif. The training was excellent and the staff was professional with a wide range of experience both military and law enforcement. What makes these gentlemen different is that they stress the importance of training all over as their own instructors do. I might also add that their vice president, Gabe Suarez was recently asked to teach some courses at Gunsite this year, no doubt at the request of Col. Cooper. I have trained with many in my career and suggest you try the same, within your means of course. Take advantage of these gents, we were impressed with them and have scheduled some training in the UK with them

February 16, 2000, 06:57 PM	#1
Keifer Member Join Date: January 13, 2000 Location: Illinois Posts: 89	Last weekend was the second most enjoyable one I believe I've ever spent. The first was my honeymoon of course. Last weekend I spent Friday learning how to shoot a submachine gun and spent Saturday and Sunday learning how to shoot my Glock 30. The subgun course was the free one offered by Front Sight. I posted about it in the full auto forum. I spent Saturday and Sunday learning how to properly shoot my Glock. Both days were filled with lectures, dry practice, hot practice, and plenty of direct guidance from the six instructors for my class of about twenty five shooters. I have been around guns for a long time and thought I had a pretty good idea of how to use them. I was wrong. From the Saturday morning lecture, to the close of class Sunday, I learned continuously. When the front sight flew off of my Glock 30, the staff was ready with a Glock 21 to allow me to finish the course. The instructors were polite, precise, and knew how to push the class hard enough to achieve maximum results without leaving anyone behind. I worked hard at concentrating (something I'm rather inept at) on the procedures as taught and dry practiced in the evenings in my hotel room. At the end of Sunday, we were given one final drill - from the holster - double tap to the thoracic cavity - failure to stop - one shot to the cranial occular cavity. I completed it perfectly. I wasn't the fastest in the class, but I followed the taught procedures and walked away knowing that I have the tools to become as fast as I possibly can while not endangering either myself with improper gun handling or others by sending errant rounds down range. I cannot reccomend the Front Sight curriculum or staff highly enough. The facility they are in the process of building are definitely first rate too.

February 17, 2000, 09:04 AM	#2
Bryan Whited Member Join Date: December 1, 1998 Location: Chino Hills, Ca, USA Posts: 63	If you think the 2 day class is good then the 4 day class must he heaven. Keep up the dry practice!

February 17, 2000, 02:24 PM	#3
Gorthaur Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2000 Posts: 846	Yeah, the four day is a blast. I took it in Bakersfield. It's probably even better at the new site, with the reactive targets and whatnot. On the third day, we had one-on-one competition with steel fall-over targets: draw from holster, head shot to hostage-taker target without hitting hostage, COM shot to second target. Fourth day had lots of shoot/no-shoot sims, "tactical" sims with red guns, and the timed tests. If you've already taken the two-day class, you don't have to repeat the lectures. The lectures are all in the morning in the four-day. So you can come in at 9:00 instead of 8:00, and spend some time in supervised dry-fire before range time.

February 18, 2000, 03:40 AM	#4
George Hill Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 14, 1998 Location: North Carolina Posts: 11,546	What was your impression of the instructors?

February 18, 2000, 07:01 PM	#5
Gorthaur Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2000 Posts: 846	I thought the instructors were very good. The lead range instructor for my class was Brad Ackman, who was an instructor under Col. Cooper for nine years. They don't emphasize "war stories" at Front Site, but several of the instructors were active LEO. One of them was delayed for awhile, because his SWAT team was deployed. I haven't been to any other training places, but I've heard that at most places, the instructors don't do any shooting. At Front Site, they don't hesitate to demonstrate when necessary. Of course, there're two main goals to an introductory defense class: build confidence with gun handling skills; and all the ramifications and consequences of using deadly force for self-defense. Naish did all of the lectures, when I was there. He did a very thorough job of it. ------------------ Protect your Right to Keep and Bear Arms! No On Knight - No On 22

February 18, 2000, 07:39 PM	#6
Keifer Member Join Date: January 13, 2000 Location: Illinois Posts: 89	The instruction was outstanding. Each of the six instructors in my class was courteous, friendly and very competent. Brad Ackman was the lead instructor but was losing his voice so Wes LaHullier took over most of the lectures. All of the instructors shot at one time or another to demonstrate techniques for individual students so all the stundents knew the instructors weren't just repeating doctrine. One of the Front Sight instructor policies is that until a prospective instructor is able to demonstrate all the skills taught on demand, he can't teach. They are also required to maintain their proficiency. On day two, half of the class was at another range running through a simulator so there was room on the firing line for the instructors to step up and practice. Brad Ackman stood next to me and put a double tap into his target before I had my sights aligned. That man is greased lightning! You can tell he practices a lot because all the blueing is worn off the slide of his 1911. The staff that taught the subgun class showed the same level of professionalism.

February 18, 2000, 07:51 PM	#7
Gorthaur Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2000 Posts: 846	You think Brad is something, you should see Majyk "Magic" Sobiesiak (that's better than my first try at the spelling ), who's an instructor in the Handgun Combat Master Prep class. ------------------ Protect your Right to Keep and Bear Arms! No On Knight - No On 22 [This message has been edited by Gorthaur (edited February 19, 2000).]

February 21, 2000, 01:37 AM	#8
George Hill Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 14, 1998 Location: North Carolina Posts: 11,546	That sounds good. The Instructors are the KEY to a good class... Ergo - key to a good school. Can you give us a detailed report about the whole experiance? Not many have been to Front Sight. I am curious.

February 21, 2000, 04:25 AM	#9
fastforty Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 1999 Location: In a kornfield in kalifornia Posts: 1,161	Ask ME!! Ask ME!!!

February 21, 2000, 03:22 PM	#10
Gorthaur Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2000 Posts: 846	Alright, fastforty, what do you think of the instructors? Are you, in fact, an instructor at Front Sight?

February 22, 2000, 02:32 AM	#11
fastforty Senior Member Join Date: December 28, 1999 Location: In a kornfield in kalifornia Posts: 1,161	Well, let's see....ok. I've attended close to a dozen courses at Front Sight, many of them multiple times. I was really jazzed after attending my first course (4-Day Defensive Handgun). Knew that I had to attend most, if not all of the courses offered. Thought about the First Family program for about a week (which basically allows you to take all of the courses that you wish as many times as you want, free of further charge for the rest of your life), pestered the daylights outta Dr. Piazza on the phone during that time. He was very patient, and never tried to pressure me. I contacted several other students and First Family members before making the decision to join up. I've been taking a course almost every month since I signed up a year ago, and am still just as excited every time as I was the first time. Dr. Piazza has put together quite a corriculum. His instructors are very adept, and rapidly took me from a novice of 30 years to the edge of Combat Master in very short order. My participation here at TFL is purely for personal fulfillment, I do not represent Front Sight in any official capacity. I only relate my personal experiences, which in themselves, have been very fulfilling. ------------------ The Bible is my lawbook. I turn the other cheek when applicable, and spend the rest of my days resisting evil at every front, until I have breathed my last breath.

February 23, 2000, 02:34 AM	#12
BigT Member Join Date: January 14, 2000 Posts: 18	Just one more opinion. I took the 4 day handgun course last October. It's the most amazing feeling, about the second day you begin to feel comfortable, I mean really comfortable with your handgun. I've been shooting more than 20 years, but until this course, I wasn't completely at ease. I guess that comes from most shooting ranges where you can't draw and fire. You stand at a counter, no drawing allowed, and you must shoot slow-fire. My holster time was mostly hunting and plinking, not really drawing to fire. Believe me, by the second day you are getting accustomed to drawing and firing! The instructors were professional, courteous and quite friendly. They really add to the class. One of my instructors brought his MP-5 for some of us to try out. What a kick! This was early, before class. Needless to say, I became a first family member. I'll be attending the 4 day shotgun course towards the end of March. Hopefully, I can get back for the 4 day rifle in the fall. It's expensive, but you get the same feeling of security that you got after finally buying that nice big fire-proof safe you put off for years as the gun collection grew! Please feel free to ask any other questions, I'm no expert but my first experiences have been great. I also attended the free machine gun class last October. As a side note, I had 2 people in my class from England. The man had only shot rifle and shotgun, so this was his first experience with a handgun. The girl had never fired a weapon of any kind. I spent the first day being quite concerned, since I was right between them! However, the instructors were right there, and by the end of the second day they both were much more comfortable with the Glocks, getting good hits and doing the drills, etc. They had a very positive experience and it was educational to see the instructors work with "newbies". They really have hired the right people for instructors, offering to meet early for extra training and being available during lunch and breaks to talk or work with students. Sorry for the long post.. HTH Tom

February 23, 2000, 04:39 AM	#13
George Hill Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 14, 1998 Location: North Carolina Posts: 11,546	BigT - Dont feel sorry... All of us can get long winded at times! And that wasnt even a quarter of what some of can go on! Just look at some of the rants Dennis can take... Oh - and Welcome to TFL...

February 24, 2000, 02:28 AM	#14
A4MERSAS Junior Member Join Date: February 24, 2000 Posts: 2	Do yourself a favor and train as many places as you can. I recently completed some private training with my lads at a company called HALO GROUP in Northern Calif. The training was excellent and the staff was professional with a wide range of experience both military and law enforcement. What makes these gentlemen different is that they stress the importance of training all over as their own instructors do. I might also add that their vice president, Gabe Suarez was recently asked to teach some courses at Gunsite this year, no doubt at the request of Col. Cooper. I have trained with many in my career and suggest you try the same, within your means of course. Take advantage of these gents, we were impressed with them and have scheduled some training in the UK with them