Long range rifle suggestions

DubC-Hicks · October 2, 2010, 06:35 PM

I would like to get into long range shooting. I am pretty sure i want a H&R or a Rossi bull barreled rifle. I am trying to figure out what barrel length and caliber would work the best. I have been looking at 25-06, 308, and 22-250. Do any of you guys have any suggestions? Any info would be appreciated. And by long range, I mean 600-1000 yards, if you need to know that.

kraigwy · October 2, 2010, 06:42 PM

You didn't say what you were gonna shoot at long range. Targets, Game, etc.

Forget th 22-250 because most are 1-12/14 twist, which wont shoot the heavy 22 bullets you need at 600-1000 yards.

25-06 would be out too because of the lack of long range bullets, Berger does make one that might work, I don't know.

The 308 works fine for long range (to 1000) and there are plenty of exceptional bullets made for the 308.

But again, depends on what you are gonna shoot.

DubC-Hicks · October 2, 2010, 07:14 PM

I would be shooting targets and maybe coyotes when I have the chance. And it might be a deer hunting rifle when I hunt the fields. That's one reason I was doubting the 22-250. But I also found a .280. How would that do?

kraigwy · October 2, 2010, 07:49 PM

The 280 would be a fine gun, lots of match bullets for it as well.

Jim Watson · October 2, 2010, 07:55 PM

H&R and Rossi are handy solid cheap rifles.
But they are not going to take you to 600+ yards with any amount of satisfaction.

DubC-Hicks · October 2, 2010, 08:00 PM

The .280 I found is an H&R Handi-Rifle with a 26" bull barrel for $250. It doesn't say what the rate of twist is, so does anyone happen to know what it is? How would the .280 perform at 600+ yards?

mapsjanhere · October 2, 2010, 08:03 PM

308 has a proven record out to 1000 yards, is cheap and available in pretty much any brand. 260 Rem and 300 WM are the two alternatives, the 260 Rem is the current choice of our resident expert, and the 300 WM is the more powerful alternative.
For cheap long range, look at the Savage and Weatherby Vanguard models, they are hard to beat in bang for the buck.

DubC-Hicks · October 2, 2010, 08:03 PM

Jim Watson, I didnt see your post. Why wouldn't the H&R's do well at 600 yds?

DnPRK · October 2, 2010, 10:29 PM

Several factors are against a cheap H&R being a precise 600 yd rifle.

Break open actions are "springy" when chamber pressures get too high. And high chamber pressures are one of the factors that make a precise, flat shooting long range rifle.

The barrel is not free floating. The forend is attached to the barrel. As careful as you might be from shot-to-shot, any variation in support hand position or grip on the forend will cause barrel harmonics to change. When barrel harmonics change between shots, group size grows.

A "cheap" mass produced barrel will not have the mechanical concentricity of chamber, bore and lands that a match barrel will have. Also expect issues with bore straightness and variations in bore diameter over the length of the barrel. The chamber will also be cut to maximun tolerances to allow the poorest-of-poor made ammunition to fit.

Since you are looking at inexpensive H&R rifles, I assume you do not reload. To get the most out of a long range rifle, you need to tailor your cartridges for bullet weight, ballistic coefficient, seating depth, runout, powder type and weight and primer type. If you find a factory load that can match all of those different variables, then you are the luckiest guy on the planet. Quick, go buy a lottery ticket.

The reason I'm slammin' the H&R is to prevent you from the heartache of spending good money on a setup that might not hit paper at 600. The old saying "Buy the best and cry once" is true. I've lived it and cried many tears over cheap stuff that had to be replaced because it didn't work.

I would recommend saving up a little longer and starting with a Howa 1500 varmint ($450) or Savage 12 varminter ($500) in 308 Winchester. Match grade ammo is more readily available in 308W than any other centerfire caliber. After shooting many thousands of rounds, you'll reach a plateau in performance where you'll want to upgrade to a real custom long range rig.

Zak Smith · October 2, 2010, 10:43 PM

article | Practical Long-Range Rifle Shooting, Part I - Rifle & Equipment

Look closely at the various 6.5mm, 7mm, and .30 caliber cartridges, in that order.

In .22 caliber you will have a hard time finding any factory barrel with sufficient twist to shoot the heavy higher-BC bullets.

The .25 caliber has a weak selection of high BC bullets.

For long-range, your goal should be to get as close to a 0.6 BC (or higher) as possible.

savage1r · October 2, 2010, 11:42 PM

Mosin nagant, no exceptions

Bagmup · October 3, 2010, 03:35 AM

.260 rem and 7mm SAUM will get you there. In fact the .260 has nearly the same trajectory as a .300WM with none of the recoil, if you're shooting steel and paper at 1000yds.

Telgriff · October 3, 2010, 05:26 AM

Another vote for the .260, alternatively the 7mm08 both have a good selection of high BC bullets available for them

zombieslayer · October 3, 2010, 05:34 AM

Something like a Weatherby Vanguard would be a better long-range alternative. I've hunted with and shot break-open singles from H&R and NEF and they're great guns, they aren't intended for long range work. The groups open up quite a bit past a couple hundred yards on the ones I've shot.

My friend Tacojohn got a Vanguard at WalMart on sale for $350 in 7mm. That thing is accurate, although I don't enjoy the recoil.

For cheap longer range shooting, a Mosin is worth a mention. For a couple hundred or so, you can have a clean rifle and a can of ammo.

DubC-Hicks · October 7, 2010, 04:50 PM

Well, I do reload. I just didn't want to spend any more than I had to on the rifle, because I've heard that the H&R's do fairly well at long range. So how well will the Mosin Nagant do at long range with a scope? I had thought about it, but I wasn't sure. Do they make any other scope mounts besides the scout mounts or the mounts that drill and tap above the chamber? I haven't seen any, but I figured I'd ask.

zombieslayer · October 7, 2010, 07:48 PM

I've never shot a scoped Mosin, so I can't comment on that. But I have a Finn M39 that is pretty deadly accurate with the irons. It cost me $150 at a pawn shop.

Since you're into reloading, I'd say find a clean used 30-06 or .308 and go from there. Mosins can be plenty accurate, but you can get better accuracy out of a used bolt action hunting rifle, imo. You'll also get a much better trigger than an NEF, which is especially helpful ion making those 300+ yard shots.

Giovanni · October 8, 2010, 05:05 AM

The .280 I found is an H&R Handi-Rifle with a 26" bull barrel for $250. It doesn't say what the rate of twist is, so does anyone happen to know what it is? How would the .280 perform at 600+ yards?

I fully agree with DN on the handi. You're rolling the dice on whether or not you'll be getting a good one. I bought the ultra varmit bull barrel .223. This rifle shot terribly. I googled and others had the same problem. For the amount of frustration, money and ammo used to correct all problems, I could have bought a much nicer rifle.

John

Headgear · October 8, 2010, 05:43 AM

I was in the same position last year at this time. I studied and asked about rifles from 300 to a $1000.00 and came to the conclusion that for long range, off the shelf rifles, Savage and CZ were probably as good of a choice as any. I went with a CZ550 which is a bit more than you are talking about but It shoots sub half minute at 500 yards.

Be careful! I loved shooting that good so much that it costed me $3600.00 on a new custom. Now I want to shoot F-class. There is an addictive element that comes into play when you start hitting your mark at those distances. I do hope you get bit though, it's a blast.

Cry Once!

rickdavis81 · October 8, 2010, 06:14 AM

Of those I'd chose the 308. I'd pass on the H&R and Rossi though. If your on a budget pickup a Stevens 200 or cheap Savage for now. Then swap barrels, stocks and triggers as you can.

RT · October 8, 2010, 06:49 AM

I vote .260 Rem or a .308

Coworker's

taylorce1 · October 8, 2010, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Well, I do reload. I just didn't want to spend any more than I had to on the rifle, because I've heard that the H&R's do fairly well at long range.

H&R are pretty good rifles for the most part but some will drive you crazy trying to make them shoot. I've had one that wouldn't shoot no matter how much reloaing I did for it. I got rid of it after owning it for three years and never got it to group better than 4" with any load factory or reloads.

If you want a long range rifle don't be cheap. Buy a good rifle the first time as well as good optics. Figure out what you are willing to spend and stay within your budget. A lot of good rifles can be found for a reasonable amount of money. But paying $250 for an rifle and expecting it to perform at 600-1000 yards might be a tad unrealistic.

Buzzcook · October 8, 2010, 01:27 PM

Find a used varmint rifle in .223.

Fusion · October 8, 2010, 05:26 PM

If I was building a long range rifle, a Rossi or H&R would not even be on my list of considerations. The Savage model 10 or 110 would be close to the top however.

lefteyedom · October 16, 2010, 06:26 PM

Long Range Shooting and Cheap are mutuality exclusive.
(but it can be affordable)

Buy a really good rifle in 308 and start shooting. You will find out what you like and want as you go along.

I like NEF/H&R rifles for what they are, great truck guns. Trying to make them into target rifle is kin to trying to teach a pig to sing.

The trick is to only spend your money once. A good Remington 700 SPS or Sendero, Savage, CZ ect will serve you well for years. Better stocks and barrels are always upgrades for the future.

Optics is the other half of this dance. From a $199 Elite 3200 10x40, Mil Dot, Matte to a $3059 US Optics 5-25x58 SN-3 35mm Riflescope
Stock # - USOSN3A. You get what you pay for. (don't forget mounts and rings)

Look online for rifle deals. Starting with the Firing Lines own for sell forum and then maybe Gunbroker.
Have fun.

stapher1 · October 16, 2010, 09:27 PM

The 260 and 7mm-08 are two great choices. Super high bc's make these rounds have some of the lowest drop rates..not counting long action and magnums. But don't leave out the 243 win, it may beat them all.

October 2, 2010, 06:35 PM	#1
DubC-Hicks Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2009 Location: Backwoods, Northern MI Posts: 1,031	Long range rifle suggestions I would like to get into long range shooting. I am pretty sure i want a H&R or a Rossi bull barreled rifle. I am trying to figure out what barrel length and caliber would work the best. I have been looking at 25-06, 308, and 22-250. Do any of you guys have any suggestions? Any info would be appreciated. And by long range, I mean 600-1000 yards, if you need to know that. __________________ ”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown

October 2, 2010, 06:42 PM	#2
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	You didn't say what you were gonna shoot at long range. Targets, Game, etc. Forget th 22-250 because most are 1-12/14 twist, which wont shoot the heavy 22 bullets you need at 600-1000 yards. 25-06 would be out too because of the lack of long range bullets, Berger does make one that might work, I don't know. The 308 works fine for long range (to 1000) and there are plenty of exceptional bullets made for the 308. But again, depends on what you are gonna shoot. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

October 2, 2010, 07:14 PM	#3
DubC-Hicks Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2009 Location: Backwoods, Northern MI Posts: 1,031	I would be shooting targets and maybe coyotes when I have the chance. And it might be a deer hunting rifle when I hunt the fields. That's one reason I was doubting the 22-250. But I also found a .280. How would that do? __________________ ”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown

October 2, 2010, 07:49 PM	#4
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	The 280 would be a fine gun, lots of match bullets for it as well. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

October 2, 2010, 08:00 PM	#6
DubC-Hicks Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2009 Location: Backwoods, Northern MI Posts: 1,031	The .280 I found is an H&R Handi-Rifle with a 26" bull barrel for $250. It doesn't say what the rate of twist is, so does anyone happen to know what it is? How would the .280 perform at 600+ yards? __________________ ”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown

October 2, 2010, 07:55 PM	#5
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,535	H&R and Rossi are handy solid cheap rifles. But they are not going to take you to 600+ yards with any amount of satisfaction.

October 2, 2010, 08:03 PM	#7
mapsjanhere Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: Albuquerque Posts: 2,832	308 has a proven record out to 1000 yards, is cheap and available in pretty much any brand. 260 Rem and 300 WM are the two alternatives, the 260 Rem is the current choice of our resident expert, and the 300 WM is the more powerful alternative. For cheap long range, look at the Savage and Weatherby Vanguard models, they are hard to beat in bang for the buck. __________________ I used to love being able to hit hard at 1000 yards. As I get older I find hitting a mini ram at 200 yards with the 22 oddly more satisfying.

October 2, 2010, 10:29 PM	#9
DnPRK Senior Member Join Date: August 24, 2001 Location: LC, Ca Posts: 1,917	Several factors are against a cheap H&R being a precise 600 yd rifle. Break open actions are "springy" when chamber pressures get too high. And high chamber pressures are one of the factors that make a precise, flat shooting long range rifle. The barrel is not free floating. The forend is attached to the barrel. As careful as you might be from shot-to-shot, any variation in support hand position or grip on the forend will cause barrel harmonics to change. When barrel harmonics change between shots, group size grows. A "cheap" mass produced barrel will not have the mechanical concentricity of chamber, bore and lands that a match barrel will have. Also expect issues with bore straightness and variations in bore diameter over the length of the barrel. The chamber will also be cut to maximun tolerances to allow the poorest-of-poor made ammunition to fit. Since you are looking at inexpensive H&R rifles, I assume you do not reload. To get the most out of a long range rifle, you need to tailor your cartridges for bullet weight, ballistic coefficient, seating depth, runout, powder type and weight and primer type. If you find a factory load that can match all of those different variables, then you are the luckiest guy on the planet. Quick, go buy a lottery ticket. The reason I'm slammin' the H&R is to prevent you from the heartache of spending good money on a setup that might not hit paper at 600. The old saying "Buy the best and cry once" is true. I've lived it and cried many tears over cheap stuff that had to be replaced because it didn't work. I would recommend saving up a little longer and starting with a Howa 1500 varmint ($450) or Savage 12 varminter ($500) in 308 Winchester. Match grade ammo is more readily available in 308W than any other centerfire caliber. After shooting many thousands of rounds, you'll reach a plateau in performance where you'll want to upgrade to a real custom long range rig.

October 2, 2010, 10:43 PM	#10
Zak Smith Senior Member Join Date: December 12, 1999 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado, USA Posts: 2,682	article \| Practical Long-Range Rifle Shooting, Part I - Rifle & Equipment Look closely at the various 6.5mm, 7mm, and .30 caliber cartridges, in that order. In .22 caliber you will have a hard time finding any factory barrel with sufficient twist to shoot the heavy higher-BC bullets. The .25 caliber has a weak selection of high BC bullets. For long-range, your goal should be to get as close to a 0.6 BC (or higher) as possible. __________________ Zak Smith . DEMIGOD LLC . THUNDER BEAST ARMS CORP . COLORADO MULTI-GUN *My PM inbox full? Send e-mail instead.*

October 2, 2010, 11:42 PM	#11
savage1r Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2009 Posts: 313	Mosin nagant, no exceptions

October 3, 2010, 03:35 AM	#12
Bagmup Member Join Date: August 7, 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 56	.260 rem and 7mm SAUM will get you there. In fact the .260 has nearly the same trajectory as a .300WM with none of the recoil, if you're shooting steel and paper at 1000yds.

October 3, 2010, 05:26 AM	#13
Telgriff Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 2008 Location: NSW, Australia Posts: 261	Another vote for the .260, alternatively the 7mm08 both have a good selection of high BC bullets available for them

October 3, 2010, 05:34 AM	#14
zombieslayer Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,198	Something like a Weatherby Vanguard would be a better long-range alternative. I've hunted with and shot break-open singles from H&R and NEF and they're great guns, they aren't intended for long range work. The groups open up quite a bit past a couple hundred yards on the ones I've shot. My friend Tacojohn got a Vanguard at WalMart on sale for $350 in 7mm. That thing is accurate, although I don't enjoy the recoil. For cheap longer range shooting, a Mosin is worth a mention. For a couple hundred or so, you can have a clean rifle and a can of ammo. __________________ "An angry prophet, denouncing the hypocrisies of our time"

October 7, 2010, 04:50 PM	#15
DubC-Hicks Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2009 Location: Backwoods, Northern MI Posts: 1,031	Well, I do reload. I just didn't want to spend any more than I had to on the rifle, because I've heard that the H&R's do fairly well at long range. So how well will the Mosin Nagant do at long range with a scope? I had thought about it, but I wasn't sure. Do they make any other scope mounts besides the scout mounts or the mounts that drill and tap above the chamber? I haven't seen any, but I figured I'd ask. __________________ ”Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars.” ~Unknown

October 7, 2010, 07:48 PM	#16
zombieslayer Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,198	I've never shot a scoped Mosin, so I can't comment on that. But I have a Finn M39 that is pretty deadly accurate with the irons. It cost me $150 at a pawn shop. Since you're into reloading, I'd say find a clean used 30-06 or .308 and go from there. Mosins can be plenty accurate, but you can get better accuracy out of a used bolt action hunting rifle, imo. You'll also get a much better trigger than an NEF, which is especially helpful ion making those 300+ yard shots. __________________ "An angry prophet, denouncing the hypocrisies of our time"

October 8, 2010, 05:05 AM	#17
Giovanni Member Join Date: October 4, 2010 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 25	The .280 I found is an H&R Handi-Rifle with a 26" bull barrel for $250. It doesn't say what the rate of twist is, so does anyone happen to know what it is? How would the .280 perform at 600+ yards? I fully agree with DN on the handi. You're rolling the dice on whether or not you'll be getting a good one. I bought the ultra varmit bull barrel .223. This rifle shot terribly. I googled and others had the same problem. For the amount of frustration, money and ammo used to correct all problems, I could have bought a much nicer rifle. John

October 8, 2010, 05:43 AM	#18
Headgear Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2008 Location: Southeast, IN Posts: 123	I was in the same position last year at this time. I studied and asked about rifles from 300 to a $1000.00 and came to the conclusion that for long range, off the shelf rifles, Savage and CZ were probably as good of a choice as any. I went with a CZ550 which is a bit more than you are talking about but It shoots sub half minute at 500 yards. Be careful! I loved shooting that good so much that it costed me $3600.00 on a new custom. Now I want to shoot F-class. There is an addictive element that comes into play when you start hitting your mark at those distances. I do hope you get bit though, it's a blast. Cry Once!

October 8, 2010, 06:14 AM	#19
rickdavis81 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2006 Location: Missouri Posts: 398	Of those I'd chose the 308. I'd pass on the H&R and Rossi though. If your on a budget pickup a Stevens 200 or cheap Savage for now. Then swap barrels, stocks and triggers as you can.

October 8, 2010, 06:49 AM	#20
RT Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2000 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 2,194	I vote .260 Rem or a .308 Coworker's

October 8, 2010, 01:27 PM	#22
Buzzcook Senior Member Join Date: November 29, 2007 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 6,126	Find a used varmint rifle in .223.

October 8, 2010, 05:26 PM	#23
Fusion Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2010 Posts: 429	If I was building a long range rifle, a Rossi or H&R would not even be on my list of considerations. The Savage model 10 or 110 would be close to the top however.

October 16, 2010, 06:26 PM	#24
lefteyedom Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 333	Long Range Shooting and Cheap are mutuality exclusive. (but it can be affordable) Buy a really good rifle in 308 and start shooting. You will find out what you like and want as you go along. I like NEF/H&R rifles for what they are, great truck guns. Trying to make them into target rifle is kin to trying to teach a pig to sing. The trick is to only spend your money once. A good Remington 700 SPS or Sendero, Savage, CZ ect will serve you well for years. Better stocks and barrels are always upgrades for the future. Optics is the other half of this dance. From a $199 Elite 3200 10x40, Mil Dot, Matte to a $3059 US Optics 5-25x58 SN-3 35mm Riflescope Stock # - USOSN3A. You get what you pay for. (don't forget mounts and rings) Look online for rifle deals. Starting with the Firing Lines own for sell forum and then maybe Gunbroker. Have fun. __________________ Superman, you are a mean drunk

October 16, 2010, 09:27 PM	#25
stapher1 Junior Member Join Date: October 16, 2010 Location: Western Pa. Posts: 2	The 260 and 7mm-08 are two great choices. Super high bc's make these rounds have some of the lowest drop rates..not counting long action and magnums. But don't leave out the 243 win, it may beat them all.