Return of the derringer?

Glenn E. Meyer · October 27, 2011, 11:04 AM

Anybody see this?

http://www.heizerfirearms.com/20111025/

Two barrel 45 ACP - or 9mm. 14 oz. gun if I read it correctly. What's the advantage (slim I gues) over a pocket J frame?

smee78 · October 27, 2011, 11:09 AM

Looks neat but how well will it perform? I've had some derringers in the past and they were almost as big as my j frame.

Stressfire · October 27, 2011, 11:26 AM

Wow, I'd be curious to try one, but .45 in that small & light of a platform has gotta jump like a rabid wallaby.

Poodleshooter · October 27, 2011, 11:27 AM

I LOL'd at this bit of marketing commentary from their page:

"1911 Ergonomics"

I carry a J-frame every day, but those tiny derringer barrels give me the willies.
Shooting an NAA derringer makes me feel like I'm going to shoot my fingertips off.

aarondhgraham · October 27, 2011, 11:41 AM

But pretty much all derringers do that.

It's 5.5 inches long,,,
That's only an inch shorter than my Bersa Thunder 380.

That DA trigger would have to be better,,,
Than the hammer and spur trigger on a standard derringer.

I like the fact that it's only 5/8 inch thick,,,
I could make a wallet to hide that.

The one thing that would give me second thoughts is the,,,
Loaded rounds are visible feature of the gun,,,
Do cases ever blow out at the rim?,,,
I don't know so I'm asking.

I would love to fire one with .45 ACP rounds,,,
It would be a trip to experience the ported barrels,,,
I am very curious as to how well they would tame muzzle flip.

There will be a lot of people who will buy the gun,,,
I think they look slick as all get out,,,
But I would want to shoot it first.

All told,,,
I'm intrigued.

Aarond

abelacres · October 27, 2011, 11:48 AM

Maybe a good BUG

I'd like to see pics of the 9mm.
What keeps the rounds from falling down the barrel?
I've got a Cobra Arms Derringer in 9mm and its a PITA to load

OttoJara · October 27, 2011, 11:51 AM

If the price is right, that would be a great little CCW. Any idea when they'll be out?

heyjoe · October 27, 2011, 12:35 PM

suppossedly first quarter of 2012

dajowi · October 27, 2011, 12:37 PM

Short barrel + ported + SD ammo = MUZZLE FLASH -

Jamas · October 27, 2011, 02:22 PM

It seems like you are losing a lot with insubstantial size reduction. I was gonna say it would be great as a beach gun, but you know sand gets everywhere and this thing has lots of places to hold sand.

sgms · October 27, 2011, 02:37 PM

Interesting yes but, is it practical? Quick comparison,
DOUBLE TAP-----------------S&W 642( this one because I have one with me)

Cal. 45 acp or 9m/m---------38 spl +P
Weight 14 oz------------------15 oz
Width .665 inch--------------1.25 inch
Height 3.9 inch---------------4.5 inch
Length OA 5.5 inch----------6 3/8 inch
Barrel 3 inch------------------1 7/8 inch
Capacity 2---------------------5

With exception of the 45 acp option I see very few advantages, 1 oz. less weight, about 9/16 inch narrower, 3/5 inch shorter (for me at lest that would give me a 1 1/2 finger grip,OUCH), 1 1/8 inch more barrel, 7/8 inch shorter. I would love to see some pressure, velocity, other ballistic info on it. Like I said interesting but I'm not sure I want to give up the 3 more rounds in the revolver and Im willing to bet the smith can be reloaded faster also.

CWKahrFan · October 27, 2011, 03:22 PM

If the street price point is less than $200 it might have a chance.
What a risky and tiny market to (pardon the pun) shoot for.
New and different products are interesting... I like looking at the picture... But even if I had tons of $, there are about a thousand other guns I'd be buying before that one.

briandg · October 27, 2011, 03:31 PM

I looked it over. I wouldn't own one if paid to take it. It doesn't meet any of my needs, and I've serious doubts about the utility and capability of it.

Besides, shooting a ported .45 acp derringer seems to be like an extreme sport, and I'd never even be able to hear the police sirens afterwards.

spacecoast · October 27, 2011, 03:42 PM

Very cool, I think they will sell a bunch of them if it's priced right and works every time. The width is what makes it so pocketable, and in 9mm it shouldn't kick any more than a comparable J-frame. Coming early in 2012.

Carry_24/7 · October 27, 2011, 04:20 PM

It should be lighter, as for a few more unloaded ounces you can carry a PPS. If it could come in at less that 12 ounces, ok. I would not care about recoil.

But, it is much lighter than the Bond Arms models, which is probably the brand they are chasing. I like the two-shooters Bond has, but for their weight you can have a full sized pistol.

That they are made in America is nice. Even with the weight, I like it.

C0untZer0 · October 27, 2011, 04:38 PM

OK, now I gotta have one.

I still regret not getting the American Derringer DA-9

Derringer are pretty simple, I can't imagine it wouldn't function. What I'd be worrying about are stresscracks.

I've seen the Titanium after-market Glock firing pins shattered.... that's the only thing that concerns me with Titanium.

Master Blaster 2 · October 27, 2011, 04:42 PM

I e-mailed and got a return that it won't be out until 2012. i would buy one because I collect derringers. I do have a Downsizer .45ACP too..it hurts. Have a COP and AD DAD-9MM and a lot more

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...tap-45-pistol/

C0untZer0 · October 27, 2011, 04:56 PM

Unless I find out that it explodes and sends deadly shrapnel flying into your face, I am going to buy one no matter what.

But the main thing I see is how thin it is. It is taller and has longer OAL than the Rohrbaugh or Kahr MK9/CM9/PM9. And it's slightly heavier than the Rohrbaugh by ½ oz.

Certainly a case can be made that if you're going to carry that size and weigh around with you, why would you want only a 2 shot pistol when you can have a 7 shot pistol in almost the same form factor?

I see that it's so thin it probably does not print, and the upside of only holding 2 rounds is that it doesn't get any heavier with a loaded mag. Technically it holds 4... but the butt of the pistol acts like an ammo carrier...

Heizer DoubleTap
Caliber:9mm
Barrel:3.0in
Length:5.5in
Height:3.9in
Weight:13.5oz
Capacity:2 Rounds

Rohrbaugh R9
Caliber:9mm
Barrel:2.9in
Length:5.2in
Height:3.7in
Weight:13.5oz
Magazine Capacity:6 Rounds

Joe the Redneck · October 27, 2011, 05:07 PM

I fired a 45 acp derringer once. Only once. I have no idea where the slug went. For all I know, it is still upthere somewhere.

No for me. I'd rather hit the badguy with a 32 than try to give him a heart attack. Ofcourse the heart attack may be more effective.

Now if you handload, that might be a horse of a differnt color. Don't know it i would use reloads for SD though.

Neat gun, maybe one day they will make it in a small caliber.

SIGSHR · October 27, 2011, 05:10 PM

I would prefer a Bond Arms derringer myself. Remember that a derringer is an "arms length" or "table top" gun.

bikerbill · October 27, 2011, 05:55 PM

Why would you carry two rounds when you can carry five or six or seven in a package of similar weight? I'm not a fan of derringers for anything but attracting interest at the range ... got rid of my 9mm (admittedly, it didn't weigh 15oz) when I realized it was pretty much useless for self-defense ... Mine was nothing but a range toy, fun to shoot but incredibly inaccurate, hard to cock, slow to reload ...

Double Naught Spy · October 27, 2011, 06:06 PM

Very good comparison, C0untZer0. Something tells me that the new gun isn't going to be cheap either.

I think the porting is a very bad idea for a couple of reasons. First is the additional flash. Then is the additional noise. Then there is the issue of reducing the the velocity of what is already a very short barrel.

I have no idea what "1911 Ergonomics" means except to note that there is nothing remotely 1911 about the derrigner except for the calibers it fires.

Microgunner · October 27, 2011, 06:12 PM

American Derringer sold o/u double action derringers based on the old High Standard design some years back in .22lr, .22WMR, .38SPL., .357mag., .9mm, 40S&W and .45ACP.
They were well made but a failure. Only 2 shots.

C0untZer0 · October 27, 2011, 09:47 PM

Because it doesn't have to feed or cycle you can do some neat things with it, like load it with 125gr .45 Auto ammo... crazy stuff you might not get away with in a semi.

C0untZer0 · October 28, 2011, 09:32 AM

I wonder about all the porting, and losing muzzle velocity.
It’s not even toward the muzzle so how much is it going to counter-act muzzle climb?

For the 9mm, I would think that if you port that barrel that much you’d move the 9mm more toward the range of a 380 auto coming out of the longer barrels of some of the larger 380 pistols.

October 27, 2011, 11:04 AM	#1
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Return of the derringer? Anybody see this? http://www.heizerfirearms.com/20111025/ Two barrel 45 ACP - or 9mm. 14 oz. gun if I read it correctly. What's the advantage (slim I gues) over a pocket J frame? __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

October 27, 2011, 11:09 AM	#2
smee78 Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2008 Location: South Carolina Posts: 2,918	Looks neat but how well will it perform? I've had some derringers in the past and they were almost as big as my j frame. __________________ We know exactly where one cow with Mad-cow-disease is located, among the millions and millions of cows in America, but we haven't got a clue where thousands of illegal immigrants and terrorists are

October 27, 2011, 11:26 AM	#3
Stressfire Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,497	Wow, I'd be curious to try one, but .45 in that small & light of a platform has gotta jump like a rabid wallaby. __________________ "The best diplomat I know is a fully charged phaser bank" - Montgomery Scott

October 27, 2011, 11:41 AM	#5
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	It defines last ditch weapon,,, But pretty much all derringers do that. It's 5.5 inches long,,, That's only an inch shorter than my Bersa Thunder 380. That DA trigger would have to be better,,, Than the hammer and spur trigger on a standard derringer. I like the fact that it's only 5/8 inch thick,,, I could make a wallet to hide that. The one thing that would give me second thoughts is the,,, Loaded rounds are visible feature of the gun,,, Do cases ever blow out at the rim?,,, I don't know so I'm asking. I would love to fire one with .45 ACP rounds,,, It would be a trip to experience the ported barrels,,, I am very curious as to how well they would tame muzzle flip. There will be a lot of people who will buy the gun,,, I think they look slick as all get out,,, But I would want to shoot it first. All told,,, I'm intrigued. Aarond __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

October 27, 2011, 11:48 AM	#6
abelacres Senior Member Join Date: August 5, 2010 Location: Jackson County Florida Posts: 207	Maybe a good BUG I'd like to see pics of the 9mm. What keeps the rounds from falling down the barrel? I've got a Cobra Arms Derringer in 9mm and its a PITA to load __________________ If something seems too good to be true it's best to shoot at it just to be sure

October 27, 2011, 11:27 AM	#4
Poodleshooter Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2000 Location: Floating down the James River in VA Posts: 2,599	I LOL'd at this bit of marketing commentary from their page: "1911 Ergonomics" I carry a J-frame every day, but those tiny derringer barrels give me the willies. Shooting an NAA derringer makes me feel like I'm going to shoot my fingertips off.

October 27, 2011, 11:51 AM	#7
OttoJara Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 2008 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 459	If the price is right, that would be a great little CCW. Any idea when they'll be out? __________________ The early bird may get the worm, but, the second rat, gets the cheese. "A fear of weapons, is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud

October 27, 2011, 12:35 PM	#8
heyjoe Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2007 Posts: 438	suppossedly first quarter of 2012

October 27, 2011, 12:37 PM	#9
dajowi Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Posts: 1,196	Short barrel + ported + SD ammo = MUZZLE FLASH -

October 27, 2011, 02:22 PM	#10
Jamas Senior Member Join Date: November 24, 2010 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 154	It seems like you are losing a lot with insubstantial size reduction. I was gonna say it would be great as a beach gun, but you know sand gets everywhere and this thing has lots of places to hold sand.

October 27, 2011, 02:37 PM	#11
sgms Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2010 Location: Arizona or Ohio depending Posts: 1,021	Interesting yes but, is it practical? Quick comparison, DOUBLE TAP-----------------S&W 642( this one because I have one with me) Cal. 45 acp or 9m/m---------38 spl +P Weight 14 oz------------------15 oz Width .665 inch--------------1.25 inch Height 3.9 inch---------------4.5 inch Length OA 5.5 inch----------6 3/8 inch Barrel 3 inch------------------1 7/8 inch Capacity 2---------------------5 With exception of the 45 acp option I see very few advantages, 1 oz. less weight, about 9/16 inch narrower, 3/5 inch shorter (for me at lest that would give me a 1 1/2 finger grip,OUCH), 1 1/8 inch more barrel, 7/8 inch shorter. I would love to see some pressure, velocity, other ballistic info on it. Like I said interesting but I'm not sure I want to give up the 3 more rounds in the revolver and Im willing to bet the smith can be reloaded faster also.

October 27, 2011, 03:22 PM	#12
CWKahrFan Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2010 Posts: 2,016	If the street price point is less than $200 it might have a chance. What a risky and tiny market to (pardon the pun) shoot for. New and different products are interesting... I like looking at the picture... But even if I had tons of $, there are about a thousand other guns I'd be buying before that one. __________________ What did Mrs. Bullet say to Mr. Bullet? ... "We're having a BeeBee!"... IF THE SHOE FITS, WEAR IT!... IF THE GUN FITS, SHOOT IT! "Experience is something you don't get until just after you need it." Last edited by CWKahrFan; October 27, 2011 at 04:34 PM.

October 27, 2011, 03:31 PM	#13
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	I looked it over. I wouldn't own one if paid to take it. It doesn't meet any of my needs, and I've serious doubts about the utility and capability of it. Besides, shooting a ported .45 acp derringer seems to be like an extreme sport, and I'd never even be able to hear the police sirens afterwards.

October 27, 2011, 03:42 PM	#14
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	Very cool, I think they will sell a bunch of them if it's priced right and works every time. The width is what makes it so pocketable, and in 9mm it shouldn't kick any more than a comparable J-frame. Coming early in 2012.

October 27, 2011, 04:20 PM	#15
Carry_24/7 Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2011 Posts: 801	It should be lighter, as for a few more unloaded ounces you can carry a PPS. If it could come in at less that 12 ounces, ok. I would not care about recoil. But, it is much lighter than the Bond Arms models, which is probably the brand they are chasing. I like the two-shooters Bond has, but for their weight you can have a full sized pistol. That they are made in America is nice. Even with the weight, I like it.

October 27, 2011, 04:38 PM	#16
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	OK, now I gotta have one. I still regret not getting the American Derringer DA-9 Derringer are pretty simple, I can't imagine it wouldn't function. What I'd be worrying about are stresscracks. I've seen the Titanium after-market Glock firing pins shattered.... that's the only thing that concerns me with Titanium.

October 27, 2011, 04:42 PM	#17
Master Blaster 2 Junior member Join Date: May 29, 2011 Posts: 895	I e-mailed and got a return that it won't be out until 2012. i would buy one because I collect derringers. I do have a Downsizer .45ACP too..it hurts. Have a COP and AD DAD-9MM and a lot more http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...tap-45-pistol/ Last edited by Master Blaster 2; October 27, 2011 at 05:04 PM.

October 27, 2011, 05:07 PM	#19
Joe the Redneck Senior Member Join Date: December 19, 1998 Location: New port richey FL us Posts: 473	I fired a 45 acp derringer once. Only once. I have no idea where the slug went. For all I know, it is still upthere somewhere. No for me. I'd rather hit the badguy with a 32 than try to give him a heart attack. Ofcourse the heart attack may be more effective. Now if you handload, that might be a horse of a differnt color. Don't know it i would use reloads for SD though. Neat gun, maybe one day they will make it in a small caliber.

October 27, 2011, 05:10 PM	#20
SIGSHR Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2005 Posts: 4,700	I would prefer a Bond Arms derringer myself. Remember that a derringer is an "arms length" or "table top" gun.

October 27, 2011, 05:55 PM	#21
bikerbill Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2007 Location: Lago Vista TX Posts: 2,425	Why would you carry two rounds when you can carry five or six or seven in a package of similar weight? I'm not a fan of derringers for anything but attracting interest at the range ... got rid of my 9mm (admittedly, it didn't weigh 15oz) when I realized it was pretty much useless for self-defense ... Mine was nothing but a range toy, fun to shoot but incredibly inaccurate, hard to cock, slow to reload ... __________________ "The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants." Albert Camus

October 27, 2011, 06:06 PM	#22
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	Very good comparison, C0untZer0. Something tells me that the new gun isn't going to be cheap either. I think the porting is a very bad idea for a couple of reasons. First is the additional flash. Then is the additional noise. Then there is the issue of reducing the the velocity of what is already a very short barrel. I have no idea what "1911 Ergonomics" means except to note that there is nothing remotely 1911 about the derrigner except for the calibers it fires. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

October 27, 2011, 06:12 PM	#23
Microgunner Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2006 Location: Central Florida Posts: 3,324	American Derringer sold o/u double action derringers based on the old High Standard design some years back in .22lr, .22WMR, .38SPL., .357mag., .9mm, 40S&W and .45ACP. They were well made but a failure. Only 2 shots. __________________ *Proud NRA Benefactor Member* Last edited by Microgunner; October 27, 2011 at 06:48 PM.

October 27, 2011, 09:47 PM	#24
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	Because it doesn't have to feed or cycle you can do some neat things with it, like load it with 125gr .45 Auto ammo... crazy stuff you might not get away with in a semi.

October 28, 2011, 09:32 AM	#25
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	I wonder about all the porting, and losing muzzle velocity. It’s not even toward the muzzle so how much is it going to counter-act muzzle climb? For the 9mm, I would think that if you port that barrel that much you’d move the 9mm more toward the range of a 380 auto coming out of the longer barrels of some of the larger 380 pistols.