Shotgun Questions

Don Rac · August 4, 2002, 11:00 PM

Well, according to California law, anyone that's 18 or older with a valid ID can own a shotgun. So far my only gun experience is rifles, and to an extent, handguns. I know that the Remington 870 isn't a bad shotgun at all, and I can get one at my local sproting goods store for $270. It's an Magnum Express/Express Magnum

model. I was talking to the guy at the counter about using a shotgun for home defense, and he said that a slug would be a bad choice because it could go through your walls and possibly into the neighbors house as well, and recommened something like 00 or 0000 shot. My questions are:
For a first shotgun, is the model I'm looking at a bad choice?
What is 00 or 0000 ammo?
Is the price of $270 a good deal?

C.R.Sam · August 5, 2002, 12:50 AM

Agree that the 870 Express is a great all round gun. Defence, games or food getter.

Bear in mind that at normal inside the house ranges whatever shot you will use will spread little, if any. Hence precise aiming is required just as if you were using a rifle.

With that in mind, I think any shot load would be just fine.

I do agree about the possibility of slugs gettin into the neighbor's business.

Buck is just really large shot. Bigger but fewer pieces. About the same total projectile weight regardless of the size of the individual little balls.

Do a bit of research on the multitudinous selection of shotshell loadings.

In some areas, new 870 Express can be found on sale for +/- $200 plus tax.

Sam

GunGeek · August 5, 2002, 03:18 AM

Actually I (and others) would recomend using #4 shot in home defense, lethal at close ranges but less likly to penetrate walls.

870 is a fine choice for home defense, personally I prefer Mossberg 590s but it is simply because I used to carry one in the Marines. The 870 has a great track record.

Here is a nice chart of shot size: http://www.benelliusa.com/shotgun_facts/shot_sizes.cfm

dfaugh · August 5, 2002, 07:50 AM

But I don't have to worry so much about overpenetration (house some distance from all others... I could be in position to make longer shots (40-50 yards) righteously, hence the Buck...As mentioned many like #4 buck for HD...But as also pointed out, pretty much anything you can load in shotgun is gonna do serious damage at typical HD ranges..Even small bird shot is gonna make a mess of BG at anything under 10-15 yards...Certainly he's not gonna wanna fight back too much... Whatever you choose to load, try it out, see what you get...For example, the Sellier and Belloit 00 buck I use actually spreads out quite a bit, in MY gun, compared to what others have written (which is what I want out of a shotgun, less need for precise aiming under stress)...I've only owned Mossy 500s, but by all accounts 870 is good gun for your purposes...

BigD · August 5, 2002, 10:53 AM

I agree with GunGeek...#4 is *definitely* the way to go.

Don Rac · August 5, 2002, 07:36 PM

Thanks for the advice y'all! After looing at the archives it looks like I got a lot of reading to do.

CWL · August 5, 2002, 09:25 PM

$270 sounds kinda high for CA shotgun price. Try shopping around for a better deal.

Romulus · August 5, 2002, 09:43 PM

Gungeek, BigD...would that be #4 buckshot or #4 birdshot? I thought there was quite a difference...I use #4 Upland Load Federal, which I believe(d) is birdshot...

Thanks

Al Thompson · August 6, 2002, 05:27 AM

Rom, not sure which they are referring too - but - #4 Buck is about .25 in diameter, #4 birdshot is way less.

The only other overlap that comes to mind is #2 buck and #2 birdshot. Only shell I've seen loaded with #2 buck is 20 ga 3 inch shells.

jb26 · August 6, 2002, 11:31 AM

I personally use any size birdshot from 6 to BB available. Range and penetration should both be right for HD unless the badguy is wearing armor. Plus it is cheaper. I have some buck and slugs nearby if needed.

Drjones · August 9, 2002, 05:50 PM

The 870 is an awesome shottie, from what I've read here. I got a Mossberg 88, and I'm thrilled with it. You really can't go wrong between Mossberg, Remington and Winchester for basic HD.

My Mossberg was $210, and came with a full stock and a separate pistol-grip only attachment.

If I were you, I'd look at a Mossberg. They're cheaper and just as good.

Also recommend 00 buck for loads.

Drjones

sm · August 10, 2002, 04:05 AM

I realize your thinking HD. You are going to be opened up to a whole new world of shooting possibilites. Skeet, trap, clay games, hunt....

Which gun fits you? Makes a difference, I'll suggest again if a club is near try some and see what fits, thats the one you'll shoot best, practice with, and if the situation warrants a HD situation your familarity will be a welcome comfort.

off the rack a 1300 fits me pretty good, my Dr shoots a mossy, friend is awsome with a jc higgins, and the 870 is what his brother uses....try and see...check the used market.

My mom's shotty is loaded with 1 oz of # 6 (20 ga), but some heavier loads in a nylon holder on stock..

hth

sm · August 10, 2002, 04:12 AM

I realize your thinking HD. You are going to be opened up to a whole new world of shooting possibilites. Skeet, trap, clay games, hunt....

Which gun fits you? Makes a difference, I'll suggest again if a club is near try some and see what fits, thats the one you'll shoot best, practice with, and if the situation warrants a HD situation your familarity will be a welcome comfort.

off the rack a 1300 fits me pretty good, my Dr shoots a mossy, friend is awsome with a jc higgins, and the 870 is what his brother uses....try and see...check the used market.

My mom's shotty is loaded with 1 oz of # 6 (20 ga), but some heavier loads in a nylon holder on stock..

hth

riverdog · August 10, 2002, 09:14 AM

MY HD weapon is also a Rem 870 with a slug barrel. I use #4 Buck to increase terminal effects over shot and also to reduce exterior house penetration over )) Buck and slugs -- it's a compromise. #1 Buck is supposedly the theoretical optimum for penetration and pattern density, but at close range, #4 Buck will still retain almost all of its muzzle velocity and will hit in a very tight pattern. Effects would be devestating. In another residence and climate, I may choose a different load, but #4 should be fine here. Actually, BB is a good load too. Light clothing, #4 Buck should be fine in SD.

August 5, 2002, 03:18 AM	#3
GunGeek Senior Member Join Date: May 3, 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 287	Actually I (and others) would recomend using #4 shot in home defense, lethal at close ranges but less likly to penetrate walls. 870 is a fine choice for home defense, personally I prefer Mossberg 590s but it is simply because I used to carry one in the Marines. The 870 has a great track record. Here is a nice chart of shot size: http://www.benelliusa.com/shotgun_facts/shot_sizes.cfm __________________ The Gun Geek Vero Firearm Academy

August 5, 2002, 10:53 AM	#5
BigD Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2001 Location: Cincinnati, OH USA Posts: 190	I agree with GunGeek...#4 is definitely the way to go. __________________ <>< --NRA Life Member-- Read between the lines; Criticize the words they're selling. Think for yourself, And feel the walls become sand beneath your feet. --Queensryche--

August 5, 2002, 09:43 PM	#8
Romulus Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2001 Location: Kettle Moraine country Posts: 897	Gungeek, BigD...would that be #4 buckshot or #4 birdshot? I thought there was quite a difference...I use #4 Upland Load Federal, which I believe(d) is birdshot... Thanks __________________ I knew Thomas Jefferson, he was a friend of mine...Governor Clinton, you're no Thomas Jefferson Ti faccio vedere come muore un italiano

August 6, 2002, 05:27 AM	#9
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	Rom, not sure which they are referring too - but - #4 Buck is about .25 in diameter, #4 birdshot is way less. The only other overlap that comes to mind is #2 buck and #2 birdshot. Only shell I've seen loaded with #2 buck is 20 ga 3 inch shells. __________________ http://www.scfirearms.org/

August 6, 2002, 11:31 AM	#10
jb26 Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 2000 Location: NE Illinois Posts: 109	I personally use any size birdshot from 6 to BB available. Range and penetration should both be right for HD unless the badguy is wearing armor. Plus it is cheaper. I have some buck and slugs nearby if needed. __________________ -Joe The P6 by any other name is just as sweet. -jb26 (in an obscure reference to the sig 225) ex libertatum et iusticia, pax

August 4, 2002, 11:00 PM	#1
Don Rac Junior Member Join Date: August 4, 2002 Location: San Diego, Ca. Posts: 11	Shotgun Questions Well, according to California law, anyone that's 18 or older with a valid ID can own a shotgun. So far my only gun experience is rifles, and to an extent, handguns. I know that the Remington 870 isn't a bad shotgun at all, and I can get one at my local sproting goods store for $270. It's an Magnum Express/Express Magnum model. I was talking to the guy at the counter about using a shotgun for home defense, and he said that a slug would be a bad choice because it could go through your walls and possibly into the neighbors house as well, and recommened something like 00 or 0000 shot. My questions are: For a first shotgun, is the model I'm looking at a bad choice? What is 00 or 0000 ammo? Is the price of $270 a good deal?

August 5, 2002, 12:50 AM	#2
C.R.Sam Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1999 Location: Dewey, AZ Posts: 12,858	Agree that the 870 Express is a great all round gun. Defence, games or food getter. Bear in mind that at normal inside the house ranges whatever shot you will use will spread little, if any. Hence precise aiming is required just as if you were using a rifle. With that in mind, I think any shot load would be just fine. I do agree about the possibility of slugs gettin into the neighbor's business. Buck is just really large shot. Bigger but fewer pieces. About the same total projectile weight regardless of the size of the individual little balls. Do a bit of research on the multitudinous selection of shotshell loadings. In some areas, new 870 Express can be found on sale for +/- $200 plus tax. Sam

August 5, 2002, 07:50 AM	#4
dfaugh Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 1,715	I keep 00 buck in mine But I don't have to worry so much about overpenetration (house some distance from all others... I could be in position to make longer shots (40-50 yards) righteously, hence the Buck...As mentioned many like #4 buck for HD...But as also pointed out, pretty much anything you can load in shotgun is gonna do serious damage at typical HD ranges..Even small bird shot is gonna make a mess of BG at anything under 10-15 yards...Certainly he's not gonna wanna fight back too much... Whatever you choose to load, try it out, see what you get...For example, the Sellier and Belloit 00 buck I use actually spreads out quite a bit, in MY gun, compared to what others have written (which is what I want out of a shotgun, less need for precise aiming under stress)...I've only owned Mossy 500s, but by all accounts 870 is good gun for your purposes... __________________ "If you Listen to Fools, the Mob Rules" "No one has the answer, but one thing is true. You'e got to turn on evil, when its coming after you. You've gotta face it down,and when it tries to hide, you've got to go in after it, and never be denied. Time is running out...Let's roll. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for love. We're going after satan, on the wings of a dove. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for truth. Let's not let our children grow up fearful in their youth."

August 5, 2002, 07:36 PM	#6
Don Rac Junior Member Join Date: August 4, 2002 Location: San Diego, Ca. Posts: 11	Thanks for the advice y'all! After looing at the archives it looks like I got a lot of reading to do.

August 5, 2002, 09:25 PM	#7
CWL Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2001 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 1,576	$270 sounds kinda high for CA shotgun price. Try shopping around for a better deal.

August 9, 2002, 05:50 PM	#11
Drjones Senior Member Join Date: July 16, 2002 Posts: 1,239	The 870 is an awesome shottie, from what I've read here. I got a Mossberg 88, and I'm thrilled with it. You really can't go wrong between Mossberg, Remington and Winchester for basic HD. My Mossberg was $210, and came with a full stock and a separate pistol-grip only attachment. If I were you, I'd look at a Mossberg. They're cheaper and just as good. Also recommend 00 buck for loads. Drjones

August 10, 2002, 04:05 AM	#12
sm Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2002 Posts: 1,819	I realize your thinking HD. You are going to be opened up to a whole new world of shooting possibilites. Skeet, trap, clay games, hunt.... Which gun fits you? Makes a difference, I'll suggest again if a club is near try some and see what fits, thats the one you'll shoot best, practice with, and if the situation warrants a HD situation your familarity will be a welcome comfort. off the rack a 1300 fits me pretty good, my Dr shoots a mossy, friend is awsome with a jc higgins, and the 870 is what his brother uses....try and see...check the used market. My mom's shotty is loaded with 1 oz of # 6 (20 ga), but some heavier loads in a nylon holder on stock.. hth __________________ Use Enough Gun TFL Alumni

August 10, 2002, 04:12 AM	#13
sm Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2002 Posts: 1,819	I realize your thinking HD. You are going to be opened up to a whole new world of shooting possibilites. Skeet, trap, clay games, hunt.... Which gun fits you? Makes a difference, I'll suggest again if a club is near try some and see what fits, thats the one you'll shoot best, practice with, and if the situation warrants a HD situation your familarity will be a welcome comfort. off the rack a 1300 fits me pretty good, my Dr shoots a mossy, friend is awsome with a jc higgins, and the 870 is what his brother uses....try and see...check the used market. My mom's shotty is loaded with 1 oz of # 6 (20 ga), but some heavier loads in a nylon holder on stock.. hth __________________ Use Enough Gun TFL Alumni

August 10, 2002, 09:14 AM	#14
riverdog Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2000 Posts: 824	MY HD weapon is also a Rem 870 with a slug barrel. I use #4 Buck to increase terminal effects over shot and also to reduce exterior house penetration over )) Buck and slugs -- it's a compromise. #1 Buck is supposedly the theoretical optimum for penetration and pattern density, but at close range, #4 Buck will still retain almost all of its muzzle velocity and will hit in a very tight pattern. Effects would be devestating. In another residence and climate, I may choose a different load, but #4 should be fine here. Actually, BB is a good load too. Light clothing, #4 Buck should be fine in SD.