Colt 1908 modification

cptmclark · April 2, 2015, 11:59 AM

Hello
I have a very nice 1908 in excellent condition that is rediculously accurate. No idea why. But I like it. I've had it since '68. Problem is that it's a 32.
Could I convert it to a 380, to have a more useful handgun, by simply changing the barrel and magazine? If not, what would be necessary? Is it a bad idea for any reason? This skinny little hammerless pistol makes a great carry gun, but the 32 is just a bit anemic.

Thanks

RickB · April 2, 2015, 12:30 PM

The magwell would have to be opened-up for the larger .380 magazine.
I think the extractor was modified to a universal type when the .380 was introduced; all "1908s" are .380s, and don't know what year your 1903/.32 would have been made.
I don't think there's enough ballistic difference to make a difference.
I have both a .32 and a .380, and don't give any thought to the chambering on the rare occasions that I've carried them.

cptmclark · April 2, 2015, 12:35 PM

1903 is correct. Now I'm not sure what the model was named. Thought it was a general officers model. By serial number Colt says it was made in 1930.
There seems to be quite a bit of energy difference between the two.

RickB · April 2, 2015, 01:41 PM

The gun goes by many names, and they can all be a bit confusing.
"Model M" covers both the .32 and .380, as does "Pocket Hammerless" (though it does have a hammer).
Collectors often call the .32 a "1903" and the .380 a "1908", but the .25 was also introduced in 1908, so a "1908 pocket model" could be a .380 or a .25.
The new reproduction is being called the "General Officer Model", or something like that, but Colt never called it that when the original was in production.

James K · April 2, 2015, 07:52 PM

New reproduction??? More info, please.

The .25 was called the Vest Pocket Model.

Jim

Edited to add. OK, I now recall the reports of the new repro Pocket Hammerless. I haven't seen any guns yet, so I had forgotten about that announcement back in January (?). I think it is likely to be the same deal as Colt's vaunted "plans" to bring back its DA revolvers. Don't hold your breath.

JK

Scorch · April 2, 2015, 11:46 PM

Just as a fyi, he .25ACP 1908 is called the Vest Pocket model, whereas both the .32 and 380 are called Pocket Hammerless. I heard Colt announced they will make 3,500 Pocket Hammerless models, which will make them instant collectibles.

RickB · April 3, 2015, 11:05 AM

A pair of new production pistols were shown at SHOT. The company that makes the "Colt" Gatling guns - U.S. Armament, IIRC - is making the pistols.
The General Officer Pistol angle is interesting, with some number of the pistols having the serial number of guns known to have been issued to Generals, an accompanying letter with biography, etc.
It would be pretty cool to have the Patton gun.
Last I heard, the guns would become available this Summer.

James K · April 3, 2015, 02:16 PM

So after all the work some folks went to in order to produce fake general officers pistols, complete with a phony USP marking, Colt is now going to make fakes for them. What a brilliant idea!

Jim

RickB · April 3, 2015, 02:31 PM

I doubt that they'll be accurate enough to pass for originals, and even really nice originals are less valuable than the reproductions (that is, priced lower than the reproductions).
I'd like to get some quality mags, so hopefully spares and extras are part of the program.

EDIT: Really nice '03/'08s are still well under $1000, but obviously, pistols documented as having been issued to Generals are going to cost a lot more than that. I'd hope that someone who's going to buy something like that would not be fooled by a reproduction.

cptmclark · April 3, 2015, 06:56 PM

I'd like for you to check your facts and get back to me. You wrote that the originals are worth less than the cost of the new reproductions????
That would make me very sad with the value I place on my excellent, with original box and instruction manual plus cleaning stuff 1903 with the walnut grips and rampant colt medallion. WHOA!! I sound like a salesman. Hopefully the original collectables (not quite old enough yet to be antiques) have a higher value than indicated.

I think I got the only reply to my original question in the first reply, and it was that frame modification to the mag well area would have to be made to convert to 380. I was hoping for a "just jam in a barrel and 380 mag and fire away".

Since it's a wimpy cartridge I'll just enjoy it being so surprisingly accurate and easy to shoot well. Only puzzle I have left is why racking the slide to cock and chamber is so much harder than my 45s. Like at least double. Sometimes I don't quite get it on the first grab cause I'm not expecting it.

Thanks for the interesting replies.

Dixie Gunsmithing · April 3, 2015, 07:43 PM

Jim, Colt had to do something, after they lost the Govt. order for the 1911's.

Just joking. Surely, they wont be exact duplicates?

James K · April 4, 2015, 09:33 PM

The early guns (when the only caliber was .32) had a narrow mag well. But at some point, they changed the frame to use with both calibers and those mag wells will accept the .380 magazines. Anyway, try a .380 magazine before doing any work on the mag well.

Jim

cptmclark · April 4, 2015, 09:55 PM

1903 (32) mag fits snugly in the entrance to the mag well. However the mag "well" is only a small amount of metal at the bottom and probably at the top. From the inside walnut grips are exposed.

"High energy" 32s are available from Cor Bon, but my expectation is a wonderful mushroom well short of the important stuff. Hard ball is my best guess for effective use of a 32 ACP. And remember, anyone worth shooting is worth shooting several times.

This is an antique to me, although it doesn't meet the definition. A little sentimental although I'll probably move it on to a collector since I'm getting older. I enjoy shooting tiny little groups with it at distances beyond what most guys at the range shoot. In actual duty use, I only expect 32 caliber holes through whatever I shoot at. Could be worse and these were used by military and police in the olden days and nobody relished the idea of being shot with one.

I enjoy having a nice one and all of the box and stuff like it just came new. I do wish it was 380, but it's not really important as I carry a 45 normally.

Thanks for all the input and opinions.

RickB · April 6, 2015, 11:46 AM

Quote:

I'd like for you to check your facts and get back to me. You wrote that the originals are worth less than the cost of the new reproductions????

The price for the new reproduction that I've seen thrown around is about $1300. Scanning auctions at gunbroker, originals are in the $500-$1000 range (those that are getting bids).
A minty pistol that belonged to Ike is certainly going to be worth more than $1300, but nice '03s and '08s are still available for half that.

April 2, 2015, 11:59 AM	#1
cptmclark Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 432	Colt 1908 modification Hello I have a very nice 1908 in excellent condition that is rediculously accurate. No idea why. But I like it. I've had it since '68. Problem is that it's a 32. Could I convert it to a 380, to have a more useful handgun, by simply changing the barrel and magazine? If not, what would be necessary? Is it a bad idea for any reason? This skinny little hammerless pistol makes a great carry gun, but the 32 is just a bit anemic. Thanks

April 2, 2015, 12:30 PM	#2
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	The magwell would have to be opened-up for the larger .380 magazine. I think the extractor was modified to a universal type when the .380 was introduced; all "1908s" are .380s, and don't know what year your 1903/.32 would have been made. I don't think there's enough ballistic difference to make a difference. I have both a .32 and a .380, and don't give any thought to the chambering on the rare occasions that I've carried them. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

April 2, 2015, 01:41 PM	#4
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	The gun goes by many names, and they can all be a bit confusing. "Model M" covers both the .32 and .380, as does "Pocket Hammerless" (though it does have a hammer). Collectors often call the .32 a "1903" and the .380 a "1908", but the .25 was also introduced in 1908, so a "1908 pocket model" could be a .380 or a .25. The new reproduction is being called the "General Officer Model", or something like that, but Colt never called it that when the original was in production. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

April 2, 2015, 07:52 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	New reproduction??? More info, please. The .25 was called the Vest Pocket Model. Jim Edited to add. OK, I now recall the reports of the new repro Pocket Hammerless. I haven't seen any guns yet, so I had forgotten about that announcement back in January (?). I think it is likely to be the same deal as Colt's vaunted "plans" to bring back its DA revolvers. Don't hold your breath. JK Last edited by James K; April 2, 2015 at 08:36 PM.

April 2, 2015, 11:46 PM	#6
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	Just as a fyi, he .25ACP 1908 is called the Vest Pocket model, whereas both the .32 and 380 are called Pocket Hammerless. I heard Colt announced they will make 3,500 Pocket Hammerless models, which will make them instant collectibles. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

April 2, 2015, 12:35 PM	#3
cptmclark Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 432	1903 is correct. Now I'm not sure what the model was named. Thought it was a general officers model. By serial number Colt says it was made in 1930. There seems to be quite a bit of energy difference between the two.

April 3, 2015, 11:05 AM	#7
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	A pair of new production pistols were shown at SHOT. The company that makes the "Colt" Gatling guns - U.S. Armament, IIRC - is making the pistols. The General Officer Pistol angle is interesting, with some number of the pistols having the serial number of guns known to have been issued to Generals, an accompanying letter with biography, etc. It would be pretty cool to have the Patton gun. Last I heard, the guns would become available this Summer. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

April 3, 2015, 02:16 PM	#8
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	So after all the work some folks went to in order to produce fake general officers pistols, complete with a phony USP marking, Colt is now going to make fakes for them. What a brilliant idea! Jim

April 3, 2015, 02:31 PM	#9
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	I doubt that they'll be accurate enough to pass for originals, and even really nice originals are less valuable than the reproductions (that is, priced lower than the reproductions). I'd like to get some quality mags, so hopefully spares and extras are part of the program. EDIT: Really nice '03/'08s are still well under $1000, but obviously, pistols documented as having been issued to Generals are going to cost a lot more than that. I'd hope that someone who's going to buy something like that would not be fooled by a reproduction. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong. Last edited by RickB; April 3, 2015 at 02:48 PM.

April 3, 2015, 06:56 PM	#10
cptmclark Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 432	I'd like for you to check your facts and get back to me. You wrote that the originals are worth less than the cost of the new reproductions???? That would make me very sad with the value I place on my excellent, with original box and instruction manual plus cleaning stuff 1903 with the walnut grips and rampant colt medallion. WHOA!! I sound like a salesman. Hopefully the original collectables (not quite old enough yet to be antiques) have a higher value than indicated. I think I got the only reply to my original question in the first reply, and it was that frame modification to the mag well area would have to be made to convert to 380. I was hoping for a "just jam in a barrel and 380 mag and fire away". Since it's a wimpy cartridge I'll just enjoy it being so surprisingly accurate and easy to shoot well. Only puzzle I have left is why racking the slide to cock and chamber is so much harder than my 45s. Like at least double. Sometimes I don't quite get it on the first grab cause I'm not expecting it. Thanks for the interesting replies.

April 3, 2015, 07:43 PM	#11
Dixie Gunsmithing Moderator Emeritus Join Date: April 27, 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 1,923	Jim, Colt had to do something, after they lost the Govt. order for the 1911's. Just joking. Surely, they wont be exact duplicates?

April 4, 2015, 09:33 PM	#12
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The early guns (when the only caliber was .32) had a narrow mag well. But at some point, they changed the frame to use with both calibers and those mag wells will accept the .380 magazines. Anyway, try a .380 magazine before doing any work on the mag well. Jim

April 4, 2015, 09:55 PM	#13
cptmclark Senior Member Join Date: November 22, 2004 Location: Indiana Posts: 432	1903 (32) mag fits snugly in the entrance to the mag well. However the mag "well" is only a small amount of metal at the bottom and probably at the top. From the inside walnut grips are exposed. "High energy" 32s are available from Cor Bon, but my expectation is a wonderful mushroom well short of the important stuff. Hard ball is my best guess for effective use of a 32 ACP. And remember, anyone worth shooting is worth shooting several times. This is an antique to me, although it doesn't meet the definition. A little sentimental although I'll probably move it on to a collector since I'm getting older. I enjoy shooting tiny little groups with it at distances beyond what most guys at the range shoot. In actual duty use, I only expect 32 caliber holes through whatever I shoot at. Could be worse and these were used by military and police in the olden days and nobody relished the idea of being shot with one. I enjoy having a nice one and all of the box and stuff like it just came new. I do wish it was 380, but it's not really important as I carry a 45 normally. Thanks for all the input and opinions.