April 24, 2012, 04:39 PM | #1 |
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Old French Shotgun
My grandfather gave me, through my dad, an old French side by side, 12 gauge shotgun he had gotten from his neighbor. This neighbor was an elderly Polish gentleman who escaped Poland with this shotgun ahead of the advancing Germans in WWII. I didn't talk to the original owner of the gun, so I don't have any information other than it is of French manufacture. Unfortunately, both this gentleman and my grandfather have passed away. I have had the shotgun for 21 years, and it has been sitting in my closet in a case. I occasionally take it out and clean, lube and oil it. It is in very good condition.
It has on the opening lever: Helice Elite BTE SCDG Marque Deposee On the underside of the receiver, it has: Hot & Prunier Valenciennes Where the barrel assembly rests on the receiver: A crown over the letters PT the numbers 52 30485 On the undersides of the barrel assembly where it meet the receiver it has: St Etiennes proof mark Canons Gallia A rearing lion in front of: Marque Deposee Crochets Encastres A crown over the letters PT 18.4 65 Reforage Longitudinal Cylindro Canon Surete' B.A. Double (with another word I cannot make out) A diamond shaped mark with the letter BF inside the numbers 52 30485 Questions: Who is the manufacturer and does anyone have any ideas about this gun, and maybe what it's value might be? Last edited by bldmaghead; April 24, 2012 at 09:02 PM. |
April 24, 2012, 05:08 PM | #2 |
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18.4 will be the bore diameter or choke diameter depending of there are other similar numbers; the 65 will be the chamber length - that means 2-1/2, NOT the 2-3/4" that is normal today
marque déposée means registered trademark Crochets Encastres means built in hooks, presumably for the bites Here are some French proof marks: http://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com...Proofmarks.pdf Pics would be real helpful |
April 24, 2012, 05:18 PM | #3 |
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Here are some more pics:
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April 24, 2012, 05:20 PM | #4 |
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Here are 3 more pics:
Also, the stock is canted to the left for a right handed shooter. Will submit another pic of that. |
April 24, 2012, 05:30 PM | #5 |
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I thought this angle shows the stock offset the best:
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April 24, 2012, 05:33 PM | #6 |
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oneounceload, according to your link, it appears to have the proof mark for St. Etienne 1897 double proof finished and joined barrels.
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April 24, 2012, 06:29 PM | #7 |
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The "Helice" top-bolting mechanism was a trade-name used by Verney-Carron, and one of Verney-Carron's marks was a logo consisting of "V", "C", and "F" all formed into one simple monogram, and you may be able to see that somewhere.
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April 24, 2012, 06:32 PM | #8 |
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I noticed that as well.
The 18.4 = .724 in inches which is either a slightly smaller bore than the .729, or it is indicating a .005 choke The Crown with the PT is a smokeless powder proof The word Helice that I am aware of is used for a game where propeller-driven targets are launched - it is the mechanical substitution for live pigeon shooting - whether this gun was designed for that, I can't say |
April 24, 2012, 07:29 PM | #9 |
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i would have the barrels opened up for 2-3/4 shells and use one oz. loads in it. it will make a nice small game shotgun. eastbank.
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April 24, 2012, 07:50 PM | #10 |
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Depending on the age and barrel conditions, it might be easier to just buy some 2-1/2" ammo from RST or Polywad
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