Low recoil .45 ACP recipe?

DaveInPA · February 16, 2008, 02:40 PM

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for a recipe for low-recoil, accurate .45 ACP rounds to fire through a Para Ordnance 5" 1911 for USPSA shooting. Does such a monster exist?

Thanks
Dave

WESHOOT2 · February 16, 2008, 06:47 PM

Are you reloading or buying?

Need to 'make Major'?

Components on hand?

(Only match I ever won Overall I used my 45 Caspian, 8-rd Mag-Packs, a 200g Rainier PHP, and Bullseye. Minor.)

**Shane Tuttle** · February 16, 2008, 07:46 PM

If you're just looking for a good plinking load and reloading, I'd try Hodgdon HP38 5.0gr under a 230FMJ bullet. In my Springer loaded and XD pistols it makes for a soft recoil and still cycles well. If HP38 isn't available in your area, use Winchester 231. It's basically the same powder. However, I haven't done the research if you use the same load. Be sure to research this if you do end up buying it...

185gr. bullets would generally provide less felt recoil using the same powder, but buying in bulk seems to be cheaper in 230gr.

HS6 is another powder I've come to like. Similar results.

bluetopper · February 17, 2008, 12:02 AM

My pet target load is 3.9gr of Clays powder behind a 200gr lead SWC bullet.

Very accurate with light recoil.

Wilburt · February 17, 2008, 12:48 AM

I have been using either 3.8 gr of VVN310 and 4.7 gr W231 behind a 200 gr LSWC. Both have very light recoil and shoots more accurate than me for the time being. I haven't tested them at a bench for real accuracy though, just drills at 7-15 yards.

DaveInPA · February 17, 2008, 12:49 AM

Can I count on SWC bullets to feed reliably? Sorry for all the questions, I'm a total reloading newbie.

bluetopper · February 17, 2008, 10:16 AM

Yes, just don't exceed 1.250" on your overall length.

**Shane Tuttle** · February 17, 2008, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Can I count on SWC bullets to feed reliably? Sorry for all the questions, I'm a total reloading newbie.

I don't have experience shooting SWC in Paras, but my Springer loaded and XD have had no problems in feeding as long as my OAL is well below 1.250" as parisite stated.

I forgot to tell you that my OAL for my loads are 1.220". Just remember that reducing your OAL will have greater differences in pressure. I like to have my OAL down a little ways, but make sure that my powder load is reduced quite a bit to compensate for the rise in chamber pressure.

**Shane Tuttle** · February 17, 2008, 10:33 AM

Forgot to add that don't be sorry for asking questions. This is what the board is all about. Be sorry for not asking. You waste resources if you don't....

Nortonics · February 17, 2008, 11:09 AM

As was lightly pointed out above, if you're going to shoot in competition you'll need to produce ammo that meets or exceeds the power level prescribed by the competition, which is a combo calculation of the projectile weight and the velocity attained. They will test your ammo at the competition behind a chrono to be sure it's legit.

So, don't pay attention to 'pet load' or 'plinking load' details that others are suggesting, otherwise you'll be mislead in terms of the actual rules you'll be expected to abide by.

I too have a Para 5" (1445 Limited) that I've used for competition training and have produced loads with quality components that will just break the barrier needed. Incredibly accurate (generally the lower the velocity, the better accuracy), and so light on recoil it's laughable. Here's a couple of my best based on both 185 and 200 grain projectiles:

.45 ACP
185 grain Ranier TMJ/FN
5.6 grains Hodgdon Titegroup
Winchester WLP primer
Mixed/used case manufactures
Case length: .88" to .92"
OAL: 1.20"

.45 ACP
200 grain Ranier TMJ/FN
5.2 grains Hodgdon Titegroup
Winchester WLP primer
Mixed/used case manufactures
Case length: .88" to .92"
OAL: 1.20"

flycaster · February 17, 2008, 01:20 PM

I'll throw out another combo: 200gr LSWC (I use LazerCast) over 4.1 gr. Bullseye. Accurate, comfy shooting, and cycles the gun.

Chuck

zebulonsmith · February 17, 2008, 06:31 PM

I'll throw one more in for the 200gr SWC. I load them with 5.2Gr of HP38. Shoots great out of my Springfield 1911. I have to seat them to about 1.110 to get them to chamber right.

Make sure to pull your barrel and test them out to make sure they're seated deep enough.

T. O'Heir · February 17, 2008, 06:44 PM

4.5 grains of Bullseye with a 230 grain cast RN or FP shoots well out of my pistol. Doubt it'd make major though. Remember to taper crimp only.

DaveInPA · February 17, 2008, 10:25 PM

Quote:

4.5 grains of Bullseye with a 230 grain cast RN or FP shoots well out of my pistol. Doubt it'd make major though. Remember to taper crimp only.

What does that mean?

Wilburt · February 18, 2008, 12:33 PM

There are two basic types of crimp: taper and roll. for .45 acp you want a taper crimp which basically takes the belling out of the brass you put in it to feed it the bullet. roll crimp is rolling the brass in on a groove usally found on magnum handgun loads.

DaveInPA · February 19, 2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

I have been using either 3.8 gr of VVN310 and 4.7 gr W231 behind a 200 gr LSWC. Both have very light recoil and shoots more accurate than me for the time being. I haven't tested them at a bench for real accuracy though, just drills at 7-15 yards.

What's your OAL on this load?

Wilburt · February 19, 2008, 11:59 PM

Oal is 1.241-1.245. It's where my 1911 likes it.

amamnn · February 20, 2008, 09:18 PM

If you are going to want your gun to function at a competition level with light match loads you must go to a lower strength recoil spring than what comes from the factory, even if you make no other modifications. The Hodgon site has all the info you would need for .45 acp loads of all types.

joerockt · August 13, 2008, 05:22 PM

While looking looking up some loads for USPSA, someone said this.

Quote:

(generally the lower the velocity, the better accuracy)

Could someone explain this logic to me? I've been under the assumption that the slower the bullet velocity, the less accurate. Reason being is that the slower traveling bullet remains in the barrel longer then a faster bullet, thus subject to barrel rise.

What am I missing here?

WESHOOT2 · August 14, 2008, 08:04 AM

The least felt recoil powder choice I've tested was Nitro 100.

I've made 200g LSWC with OALs ranging from 1.220" up to 1.265" (because they all weren't for my guns).

One might need a recoil spring change, but often a slight bump in charge weight alleviates that need.

My suggested 'low recoil' load: 230g RN (can be lead, plated, or jacketed; I have some thoughts...), CCI300 or WLP, sized case, 5.0g W231 (or HP38, the exact same powder), OAL 1.250--1.260" (because guns vary; I load mine to 1.255"), gentle crimp using the LEE Carbide Factory Crimp die.

Should exit your 5" Para between 700--780fps; figure 730fps.
Testing for confirmation required.

Make ten test ten.
Don't make zillion test fail oh crap....

230g RN
CCI300 / WLP
sized case
5.0g W231
OAL 1.255"

WESHOOT2 · August 14, 2008, 08:08 AM

(John Lawson once suggested that his most accurate loads came at or into proof range).
(I concur, but without a Ransom Rest LOL).

rfulmer · August 15, 2008, 07:11 AM

I really like 3.9 grains of Clays with a 200 grain LSWC (Zero brand in particular).

I like it so well I don't make anything else for my 45 for target shooting.

Russell

darkgael · August 15, 2008, 07:39 AM

"My pet target load is 3.9gr of Clays powder behind a 200gr lead SWC bullet.

Very accurate with light recoil."

I like that load too. I don't care for the way that Clays meters in my progressive so, for gallery matches, I use a similar loading of 3.8grs Bullseye and a 200gr. LSWC. I found that I had to change to a lighter 12lb spring for the gun to be happy. Outoors I step the load up to 4.0grs.
Pete

8ring · August 17, 2008, 09:07 PM

As a general matter, heavier bullets propelled by small doses of fast powder (Clays, Vithavouri N310) have the least "perceived" recoil. A 230gr bullet needs to go only 718 fps to make 165 power factor. 3.6 gr to 3.8 gr of Clays under a 230gr LRN or 225gr truncated cone bullet makes an accurate, low recoil, major power factor load.

Some folks think that their guns a "sluggish" with the heavier bullets and therefore favor 200gr loads. In my gun, a CZ97b, I can definitely say that the 200gr load has more recoil but may operate the slide slightly faster. In my opinion, the slower versus faster slide action does not come into play unless your splits are .5 seconds or less.

Chris

CPTMurdoc30 · August 17, 2008, 09:28 PM

My 45acp load is a 200gr Rainer bulet with 5.5gr of titegroup

my velocity is right at 880

so 200*880/1000= 176pf Major power factor is 160 so that gets you there with a bit extra for insurance. I like this load as it is nice and soft cycles my Kimber Custom II and you can shoot it all day long.

February 16, 2008, 02:40 PM	#1
DaveInPA Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2008 Location: Berks County, PA Posts: 1,106	Low recoil .45 ACP recipe? Hi everyone, I'm looking for a recipe for low-recoil, accurate .45 ACP rounds to fire through a Para Ordnance 5" 1911 for USPSA shooting. Does such a monster exist? Thanks Dave

February 16, 2008, 06:47 PM	#2
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	yes, but Are you reloading or buying? Need to 'make Major'? Components on hand? (Only match I ever won Overall I used my 45 Caspian, 8-rd Mag-Packs, a 200g Rainier PHP, and Bullseye. Minor.) __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

February 16, 2008, 07:46 PM	#3
Shane Tuttle Staff Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 9,443	If you're just looking for a good plinking load and reloading, I'd try Hodgdon HP38 5.0gr under a 230FMJ bullet. In my Springer loaded and XD pistols it makes for a soft recoil and still cycles well. If HP38 isn't available in your area, use Winchester 231. It's basically the same powder. However, I haven't done the research if you use the same load. Be sure to research this if you do end up buying it... 185gr. bullets would generally provide less felt recoil using the same powder, but buying in bulk seems to be cheaper in 230gr. HS6 is another powder I've come to like. Similar results. __________________ If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language. Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

February 17, 2008, 10:33 AM	#9
Shane Tuttle Staff Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 9,443	Forgot to add that don't be sorry for asking questions. This is what the board is all about. Be sorry for not asking. You waste resources if you don't.... __________________ If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language. Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

February 17, 2008, 11:09 AM	#10
Nortonics Senior Member Join Date: December 2, 2004 Location: Murderapolis Posts: 521	As was lightly pointed out above, if you're going to shoot in competition you'll need to produce ammo that meets or exceeds the power level prescribed by the competition, which is a combo calculation of the projectile weight and the velocity attained. They will test your ammo at the competition behind a chrono to be sure it's legit. So, don't pay attention to 'pet load' or 'plinking load' details that others are suggesting, otherwise you'll be mislead in terms of the actual rules you'll be expected to abide by. I too have a Para 5" (1445 Limited) that I've used for competition training and have produced loads with quality components that will just break the barrier needed. Incredibly accurate (generally the lower the velocity, the better accuracy), and so light on recoil it's laughable. Here's a couple of my best based on both 185 and 200 grain projectiles: .45 ACP 185 grain Ranier TMJ/FN 5.6 grains Hodgdon Titegroup Winchester WLP primer Mixed/used case manufactures Case length: .88" to .92" OAL: 1.20" .45 ACP 200 grain Ranier TMJ/FN 5.2 grains Hodgdon Titegroup Winchester WLP primer Mixed/used case manufactures Case length: .88" to .92" OAL: 1.20" __________________ Tom.

February 17, 2008, 12:02 AM	#4
bluetopper Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2005 Location: Northeast TX Posts: 1,197	My pet target load is 3.9gr of Clays powder behind a 200gr lead SWC bullet. Very accurate with light recoil.

February 17, 2008, 12:48 AM	#5
Wilburt Member Join Date: February 17, 2008 Posts: 16	I have been using either 3.8 gr of VVN310 and 4.7 gr W231 behind a 200 gr LSWC. Both have very light recoil and shoots more accurate than me for the time being. I haven't tested them at a bench for real accuracy though, just drills at 7-15 yards.

February 17, 2008, 12:49 AM	#6
DaveInPA Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2008 Location: Berks County, PA Posts: 1,106	Can I count on SWC bullets to feed reliably? Sorry for all the questions, I'm a total reloading newbie.

February 17, 2008, 10:16 AM	#7
bluetopper Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2005 Location: Northeast TX Posts: 1,197	Yes, just don't exceed 1.250" on your overall length.

February 17, 2008, 01:20 PM	#11
flycaster Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2004 Posts: 289	I'll throw out another combo: 200gr LSWC (I use LazerCast) over 4.1 gr. Bullseye. Accurate, comfy shooting, and cycles the gun. Chuck

February 17, 2008, 06:31 PM	#12
zebulonsmith Senior Member Join Date: October 27, 2007 Posts: 307	I'll throw one more in for the 200gr SWC. I load them with 5.2Gr of HP38. Shoots great out of my Springfield 1911. I have to seat them to about 1.110 to get them to chamber right. Make sure to pull your barrel and test them out to make sure they're seated deep enough.

February 17, 2008, 06:44 PM	#13
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	4.5 grains of Bullseye with a 230 grain cast RN or FP shoots well out of my pistol. Doubt it'd make major though. Remember to taper crimp only. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

February 18, 2008, 12:33 PM	#15
Wilburt Member Join Date: February 17, 2008 Posts: 16	There are two basic types of crimp: taper and roll. for .45 acp you want a taper crimp which basically takes the belling out of the brass you put in it to feed it the bullet. roll crimp is rolling the brass in on a groove usally found on magnum handgun loads.

February 19, 2008, 11:59 PM	#17
Wilburt Member Join Date: February 17, 2008 Posts: 16	Oal is 1.241-1.245. It's where my 1911 likes it.

February 20, 2008, 09:18 PM	#18
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	If you are going to want your gun to function at a competition level with light match loads you must go to a lower strength recoil spring than what comes from the factory, even if you make no other modifications. The Hodgon site has all the info you would need for .45 acp loads of all types. __________________ "If the enemy is in range, so are you." - Infantry Journal

August 14, 2008, 08:04 AM	#20
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	killin' me here.... The least felt recoil powder choice I've tested was Nitro 100. I've made 200g LSWC with OALs ranging from 1.220" up to 1.265" (because they all weren't for my guns). One might need a recoil spring change, but often a slight bump in charge weight alleviates that need. My suggested 'low recoil' load: 230g RN (can be lead, plated, or jacketed; I have some thoughts...), CCI300 or WLP, sized case, 5.0g W231 (or HP38, the exact same powder), OAL 1.250--1.260" (because guns vary; I load mine to 1.255"), gentle crimp using the LEE Carbide Factory Crimp die. Should exit your 5" Para between 700--780fps; figure 730fps. Testing for confirmation required. Make ten test ten. Don't make zillion test fail oh crap.... 230g RN CCI300 / WLP sized case 5.0g W231 OAL 1.255" __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

August 14, 2008, 08:08 AM	#21
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	700--800fps is best (John Lawson once suggested that his most accurate loads came at or into proof range). (I concur, but without a Ransom Rest LOL). __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

August 15, 2008, 07:11 AM	#22
rfulmer Junior Member Join Date: August 15, 2008 Location: Alabama Posts: 14	I really like 3.9 grains of Clays with a 200 grain LSWC (Zero brand in particular). I like it so well I don't make anything else for my 45 for target shooting. Russell

August 15, 2008, 07:39 AM	#23
darkgael Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2006 Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania. Posts: 5,473	Low recoil "My pet target load is 3.9gr of Clays powder behind a 200gr lead SWC bullet. Very accurate with light recoil." I like that load too. I don't care for the way that Clays meters in my progressive so, for gallery matches, I use a similar loading of 3.8grs Bullseye and a 200gr. LSWC. I found that I had to change to a lighter 12lb spring for the gun to be happy. Outoors I step the load up to 4.0grs. Pete

August 17, 2008, 09:07 PM	#24
8ring Member Join Date: October 26, 2002 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 84	As a general matter, heavier bullets propelled by small doses of fast powder (Clays, Vithavouri N310) have the least "perceived" recoil. A 230gr bullet needs to go only 718 fps to make 165 power factor. 3.6 gr to 3.8 gr of Clays under a 230gr LRN or 225gr truncated cone bullet makes an accurate, low recoil, major power factor load. Some folks think that their guns a "sluggish" with the heavier bullets and therefore favor 200gr loads. In my gun, a CZ97b, I can definitely say that the 200gr load has more recoil but may operate the slide slightly faster. In my opinion, the slower versus faster slide action does not come into play unless your splits are .5 seconds or less. Chris

August 17, 2008, 09:28 PM	#25
CPTMurdoc30 Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2008 Location: Stafford VA Posts: 969	My 45acp load is a 200gr Rainer bulet with 5.5gr of titegroup my velocity is right at 880 so 200*880/1000= 176pf Major power factor is 160 so that gets you there with a bit extra for insurance. I like this load as it is nice and soft cycles my Kimber Custom II and you can shoot it all day long. __________________ Solving Virginia's Ground Hog problems 50gr at a time.....