Kukris in combat

[VinceMP]

What do you guys think of using a Cold Steel Kukri as a fighting knife?

I have no training in knives, so I don't really know if they would be good beyond the psychological advantage of having a big a$$ knife swung at you.

I have a few utility blades: Cold Steel SRK, USAF knife etc and thought the kukri might make a good all-around knife and come in handy for head loppin' too

Also what about esoteric weapons like belt axes or tomahawks?

[LASur5r]

Vince MP,
I have two CS Kukris attached to my bugout bag. I figure they are not only good for combat, but also a good utilitarian tool. They're small enough for CQB...and remember that the Ghurkas were some of the most feared fighters around.

My cousin was a 2nd Lt. in a tank unit on the DMZ in Korea. As part of the UN contingent, there was also a Ghurka infantry unit there at the same time. Since DMZ duty was kind of boring to my cousin he talked to the Ghurkas and he didn't believe that such a "rag-tag" outfit with "knives" of all things fit in a modern warfare situation, especially against modern tanks. So he and some of the NCO's made some bets with the Ghurkas to have their own "wargame" at the same time to see how prepared my cousin's outfit was.
Long story short...my cousin with all tank crews were "killed" the first night...twice. And that was with the old Thugee noose.
The rest of the week was pure hell as they were continuously "zapped" by the Ghurkas who not only "killed" them, but also stole a lot of things.
By the end of the week, the US troops were kind of T'd off and some of them challenged them to some fights...Kukris won. Even the ROK troops didn't want to duke it out with the Ghurkas.

[LASur5r]

Vince MP,
As an avid martial artist, I could see some of the great advantages of a tomahawk. I'd love to get my hands on a really good one made for modern combat and practice with it.
I think it might have some advantages over Kukris. Need to try it out, though.

[LawDog]

It's not the weapon, it's the man wielding the weapon. And in the Ghurkas case, they'd be bad opponents if they were only armed with toilet paper rolls.

As far as tomahawks go, my personal opinion is that they are first class edged weapons. Light, fast and versatile. Stick forms translate quite readily to the tomahawk, and for those with martial arts inclinations, the underside of the bill offers wonderful opportunities for trapping and locking.

The best tomahawks I've found so far are from Cold Steel. I've got a couple of their Vietnam tomahawks, and like them immensely.

LawDog

[Secmat]

Battle blades,(kukri,tomahawk,10"+ bladed knives,e.g.), are meant for chopping and crushing,(skulls). They are a different animal from "fighting knives" that are meant for penetration, stabbing, and cutting.

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"Those who dance are thought mad by those that don't hear the music."

[Spadone]

I have several khuk's from HI. My favorite one to date is my kumar kobra. 18" made from a file. My second choice would be a 20" sirupati. Both are light enough to stop mid-swing.I'd rather had one I controlled, instead of the other way round. The kobra is relatively thin at 1/4". I think the HI's offer more bang for the buck, than cold steel IMHO.

[Correia]

I've always wanted a Kukri since I read about lone Gurkas jumping into a German trench and lopping off heads and arms left and right.

And I've always wanted a tomahawk since I watched Last Of The Mohicans, and then I watched the Patriot so now I really want one.

I would think that having one of these as part of your emergency supplies would be very smart because they can work for many different chores.

[VinceMP]

Spadone;

What are HI kukris?

Corierra;

I used to do the Mountain Man thing for several years. Everybody carried a belt axe. Most guys used them for throwing competition or splitting kindling, but I have always been interested in them as a fighting tool.

Does anybody have any experiance using a 'hawk type weapon in a fight?

[This message has been edited by VinceMP (edited October 29, 2000).]

[Spadone]

HI stands for a company in Reno called Himilayan Imports. They have an excellent website. I would include a link, if I knew how I have bought many khukuri's, and HI's are beyond a doubt the finest available. The scabbard's are tooled,and made from thick leather. The accesory knife, and steel, called a chakma, and karda, are first rate, and not just ornaments. Prices are usually around $100, or a little over.

[LawDog]

The only combat experience with a tomahawk has been sparring. And I'm pretty sure I'd like to keep it that way.

The original Peter LaGana tomahawks were issued to the 173rd (I think) in Vietnam. I've read that most soldiers were quite fond of them. I understand that the media apparently got some photos of scouts coming in with tomahawks and either scalps or heads hanging from their belts, became quite outraged (war should be civilzed, and all that) with the end result of the tomahawks being banned for Army issue.

By-the-by, Himilayan Imports: http://members.aol.com/himimp/index.html

LawDog

[This message has been edited by LawDog (edited October 29, 2000).]

[LASur5r]

Lawdog,
Thank you, sir, you have always been a fountain of information that I appreciate. Thank you for your evaluation and the HTML...more toys for boys...Oh Boy!

I appreciate that you have Arnis experience too so that was where I could see the advantages...that the tomahawk movements fit stick movements and so it is more an adjustment to the weapon than incorporate a whole bunch of new moves.

Quick (real story)...I was going to a JC in central California when a lettuce farmer walked in to our class and asked for some help with his farm. The pay was good and it was to help him get his crop out to market before it went bad...plus we could skip school.
The first day a whole bunch of us college boys arrived and he wanted us to learn the "pace"...I was used to hard labor, but he put us up against a group of Philipino farm hands...he even offered an incentive bonus for who could pack the most crates in one day.
Being young and full of vinegar, we figured we'd kick a#* by going fast. By lunch we were dying with our hands full of blisters...half of the college kids had already quit and we were 50 yards behind the "old" Philipinoes.
At lunch break, one of the old hands was playing with a machete and the guys from Hawaii went over to watch...majority of us had at least 4 plus years in in some form of martial arts or other.
One of the guys asked how the old guy (about 40) would do in a fight.
He smiled and said to the verbal challenge,, "Come play with me, boy."
This guy was able to call live side (sharpened side) or dull side (spine) and proceeded to "chop" up our friend with the dull side while whittling the hoe stick to about a foot long (with the sharp side).
Then there was a young Filipino man who just arrived from the Philipines who stepped out of their crowd and rebuked the older man. There was a brief angry exchange in their dialect and they broke out the balisongs (butterfly knives).
Man, it was fast, then it was over with the young man putting his head down in a bow and an apology. Only later that day did we notice the red welts that the older man had put on the younger man (with the spine of the knife)...majority of the "cuts" would have bled the young man out. Just imagine if he had decided to use the sharp edge.

[LawDog]

I remember reading a letter at the Imperial War Museum from a private in the British Army during WWII. He was writing his wife to explain why he was being brought up on charges, Lack of Moral Fibre, if I'm not mistaken.

He had been detailed to stand guard over a crashed British fighter in the North African desert, and left his post to high-tail it back to camp when it got dark. The things that scared him so bad out in the desert at night weren't Germans, but snakes and Ghurkas.

Apparently the Ghurkas were quite active in his area when the sun went down, and he was of the impression that they would sneak up and feel the laces of a man's boots. If you were wearing German laces, the Ghurkas would do what Ghurkas do best. :shudder: He didn't want the Nepalese to make a mistake.

LawDog

[VinceMP]

I heard a story that during the Falklands a Gurkha unit was placed in front of the Argentines. The Argentines just legged it. They heard the Gurkhas were drug crazed cannibals!

Would kukris or 'hawks serve as a better choice for an issue knife than say the K-Bar types. Especially the kukri. I think you could use it for many more jobs.

What would make a good design for a battle 'hawk? I think a handle of 2-21/2 feet would be a little betteron my VN 'hawk.

[Spectre]

I think I'd be leery of any group whose battle cry is basically

We're here! (the Ghurkas are upon you!)

I'm fond of big choppers, and have had a CS kukri for years. I would especially hate getting hit with one.

[Edmund Rowe]

I have a couple of Cold steel Tomahawks. They are fun, but my personal favorite is even more mundane, and possibly has more utility: I have a pair of former East German military entrenching tools. They have squared blades unlike the so-called Spetsnaz type. Does it matter? I'm not too concerned about it. Maybe the pointed front is better for throwing, but I don't intend to throw mine.

I don't sharpen the edge, though I hear many who use them for fighting tools (like the Spetsnaz) do indeed put an edge on one or both cutting sides. I'm relying on more bludgeon effect.

Some of the nice benefits of an E-tool:
-Cheap (mine were $10 each!)
-simple
-useful for stuff other than fighting (My car has been stuck in the mud before!! )
-Looks more innocent than a tomahawk or kukri. I mean, it doesn't look like I'm going to some ritualistic killing ceremony (at least I never hear of such groups using E-tools)
-Although a straight thrust is not the preferred attack, you can still put some kind of hurting on someone this way. More so than a kukri or tomahawk IMHO.

Note: most kinds of folding E-tool are not nearly as well suited for this kind of combat Kludgery. The kind I prefer are the fixed designs.

Edmund

[Skorzeny]

Spectre:

The cry is "Gorkhali Ayo!" It is roughly translated, "Here come the Gurkhas!" This is the cry, which sent chills down many a Japanese conscript spines in Burma.

The real fascinating story is how the British association with the Gurkhas began (for another day, perhaps).

Skorzeny

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For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu

[Spectre]

Thanks, Skorzeny. Any clue as to pronunciation?