1851 Pietta Revolver

[Remington kid]

The idea of just shoving in the wedge and saying that's good enough would be fine but it doesn't work that way for all of us.
A good test to see if the wedge is to tight or not tight enough is the following...After the gun is togeather and you just pushed in the wedge place it on half cock, hold the grip in your right hand and the barrel in your left and try to break the gun in the middle like you would a stick...feel any movement? If you do then it's not tight enough at all and the first shot or two will really make it loose and your accuracy will go to hell quickly.
Now tap the wedge in gently with anything that won't mar the finish, try to break it again and see if the movement is gone and it should be. Now move the cylider towards the rear and slide in a piece of tablet paper and let go of the cylinder. Now pull the paper out slowly, If it comes out smoothly without tearing you are good to go.
Got this from an old timer yesterday and it works!

[gmatov]

Mike,

If the arbor is fitted to the barrel assembly, properly, you are a little wrong.

The arbor should be bottomed out and the wedge should be drove home. If the arbor is fitted properly, you can smack that wedge with a 3 lb. sledge, and it wont draw it up to sieze the cylinder, nor tip the barrel up.

To make it fit properly, the arbor should bottom out at about .0005 to .001 clearance at the barrel assembly mating point with the frame at the locating pins, and that clearance is just for wear.

Force of firing will "push" the barrel forward a skosh, it hits the front end of the frame extension, stops. Period.

If you are able to drive the wedge in enough to bind the cylinder, you got a bad gun.

IF you can pull the barrel off the pins, twist 'er enough to clear the flats and push the barrel assembly back past the mating points, you got a bad gun.

If the arbor don't bottom out, period, when the mating surfaces are all but dead nuts, bad gun, period.

What, do you want to adjust your POI POA everytime you clean the thing? Tap the wedge a leetle bit to get just the right cyl gap each time? Try to do the same thing tomorrow? "Damn, the thing shot right where I aimed, yesterday, today it's a foot high!"

I gotta admit, when I turn mine to the side to clear the mating surfaces, it's a bitch to get it to go home. Like the arbor or the hole is oval. Use a leather mallet to bottom it out. Spacer and loading lever to jack it back off.

That's the '51 Navy. The '60 Army bottoms out and just kisses the frame extension. That one's good. It's also an ASM. Can drive that wedge tight, doesn't draw up the barrel to point at the sky.

Cheers,

George

[Smokin_Gun]

[pohill]

Just because the arbor doesn't "bottom out" does not mean it's a bad gun- that can be fixed with a weld or a shim. Just because you can drive the wedge in far enough to bind the cylinder does not mean it's a bad gun. If you're looking for a "perfect" gun, one that needs no work, you're in the wrong sport.

[Smokin_Gun]

Hiya Pohill what's up Bud...HeHe!

[pohill]

Hey, SG, wassup? So, this is where you guys hide out, hey?

[MPP1423]

hey mike,thats one of my favorates as well cause of all the c&b pistols.i think josey wells is my all time favorate though.

[gmatov]

Man,

Where the hell you buying these wedges? I have NO wedges with springs with a square hook on them, they all have a bevel on the back side, just as on the front side.

Ramped, they will push out, just as they push in. Again, I use my thumbnail to push the hook down. If you can't, use a tool such as a small screwdriver to push the hook down, a light tap should do it. If it takes more, you have other problems.

Cheers,

George

[gmatov]

pohill,

If you bought a new Pietta that has an 1/8 inch clearance under the arbor, you have bought a "BAD GUN".



You can go to Chicoines book and learn how to fix it, but it is still a fact you bought a BAD GUN. You should not HAVE to fix it. I don't know, will you agree to that? You bought a new gun, it should be right?

Anything can be made right, if you have the time and the expertise to do it. If you say, "Well, I might get a piece of junk if I go to the Auction sites, I think I will just buy new, not have to worry about anything, it will be perfect."

You think so? Remington Kid seems to be saying differently. He's not familiar with these open framed revolvers, has done great, so far as he knows, aligning the barrel with the cylinders, but doesn't know that the wedge should lock the barrel assembly to the frame assembly without drawing the barrel too far back. The wedge should not be ABLE to draw it too far back. If they make the gun with a properly bottomed arbor, it CAN'T be drawn too far back.

Saying, a competent gunsmith can fix it is not the same as saying it should be shootable out of the box. It should not require a competent gunsmith, for a new gun.

Cheers,

George

[Smokin_Gun]

The bottom line is every gun is differant, any gun outta the box only needs a competant shooter to recognise from expiriance if a gun should be kept or sent back. Not from here say but expiriance or knowledgable expirianced shooters recomendations. "life if like a box a chocolates, ya never know what you're gonna get till ya bite into one" guote from Forest Gump and sooo true.
So when in doubt ask, but ask the right person...that's the key. And I said that.

[gmatov]

Smoke,

I bought a new 1851 Pietta revolver, and when I drive the wedge in, the cylinder won't turn. What does that mean?

When I remove the cylinder ane drive the wedge in the barrel points up 10 degrees. What does that mean?

Should I learn from you oldtimers just how far to drive in the wedge? The reason I ask is that unless I bend the barrel up , I can't get the wedge to even start.

Do you think I might have a BAD GUN?

I've been lurking here a long time, do you think it would help to put a shim on top of the arbor pin? I mean, it doesn't really matter how much clearance there is at the bottom of the arbor hole, does it? You told me that 40 11 times.

Ah, poop, gonna have to figure this stuff out my own self, no help here, just your own prejudices.

Cheers,

George

Why did I miss your last post? Every gun is different. That is only true to an extent. They are all supposed to be made to a tolerance. A thou here and there is to be expected. An 1/8 inch is not.

2 feet on the wingspan of a B-51 might be allowed, then again, maybe not.

[Smokin_Gun]

No you don't have a bad gun if the wedge don't go all the way in, if the bbl was pointing 10 degrees up you would have never recieved it...if ya read what I typed I said every gun is differant.... if you see half a chamber lookin down the barrel that's a bad gun. You have a bad gun if it's pointing 10 degrees upword...send it back.

Your a moody ol fart some days you fine others you are like this...did your beer freeze or sumthin?

[gmatov]

Oh, hell no, now, for some reason, you are thinking like I am.

On a new gun, the wedge should just go in till it hits the other side of the wedge slot in the barrel housing, just sticking out, you know it's there, not cocked and trying to drive it into the wall of the barrel assembly.

And, if it's tight, and that is up to you, what tight is, and you have cyl gap clearance, great Shoot the sonomagun, Have a blast.

Cheers,

George

[Smokin_Gun]

If you mean the arbor forward of the barrel assy. nothing frong with that better tight than loose. That's if you mean forward to back and not up and down or sise to side. If I am following you...not a thing wrong with a tight wedge that will be fire form fitted anyway. That's the reason they make the wedges out of a softer material. The wedge will deform more than the barrel slot and arbor will. Tha't the main reason I like Rems over Colts...all that BS...ya know? Colts are damn pretty and fun ta shoot but the upkeep can be time consuming not over all but sometimes.

[Remington kid]

Wow guy's! Let me restate this because it seems that some of you have the wrong idea as to what I was saying.
Someone stated that you should be able to just push the wedge in with your thumb and it will be tight enough. If I push as hard as I can with just thumb preasure mine will not be tight enough and there is still a very little bit of play between where the barrel locks up to the pins.You can only feel this by trying to break the gun as discribed above. If I shoot the gun while it's a little bit loose it will only become looser as I shoot.
If I place the wedge in the gun and shove it on in with my thumb and then give it a slight rap with a small piece of wood or plastic handle it sets the barrel solid and everything runs smoothly. Taking out the wedge is no problem. It will come out most of the time with just thumb preasure.
Nothing is misaligned or needs any shims or anything like that.
I was simply stateing that I could not set this wedge as it should be with thumb preasure alone, it needs a little (Very little) rap.
This Navy could not shoot any better than it does and I'm not about to send it back and tell the people that I can't make the wedge tight enough with thumb preasure so I want it replaced

[Remington kid]

MP1423, Sure wish they would bring the old wetern style movies back!YEEE- HAAAA.

[MPP1423]

yea,you dont see many of those today!i got mec book ordered finally.amazon had it.i couldnt find it when i looked for it but mec sent me the link for it.i cant wait for it to get here cause it sounds like it is full of info.

[Low Key]

Sure wish they would bring the old wetern style movies back!YEEE- HAAAA.

You and me both, pard! I got to see half of the shootist a couple of days ago and that got me to wanting to see pale rider and unforgiven again. They don't make em like they used to anymore!

[Remington kid]

Low Key, Just think of the money we could make if they hire all of us to carry our Remington and colts in a new western. My GOD I would make a handsome old cowboy!

Kevin, You will really like that book. It gives more info on each gun and many other aspects of C&B guns than I have ever found anywhere else.
Youwont see Mec in the middle of all these arguements on here but believe me he could set a few people straight in a hurry.

[Low Key]

Low Key, Just think of the money we could make if they hire all of us to carry our Remington and colts in a new western. My GOD I would make a handsome old cowboy!

Sounds like a good idea to me! I could stand to have a few more dollars laying around. Since you've got handsome covered, I'll be the smart young feller learning all the tricks from the old farts!

Just kidden!

[Old Dragoon]

If you buy the E-book, can you download it to a CD? That might be the way to go for me, but I like books too. I gotta get a copy soon.

RK,
I did experience some non firing #10 Caps from CCI Sat. might have been the way I loaded them, might not, i didn't check which cylinder I was shooting either. I have two good cylinders that I know of and the last one is not finished to the full depth of the chamber. This cylinder came in the new gun. This cylinder is finshed down to about 1/4 inch from the end of the chamber then it is rough cut(2000). My other two are finished to the full depth, (2002, 2005).

I'll check the nipples out this week, as I seem to remember that the caps went on harder and I may need #11's for that cylinder. Bummer. but other than that everything worked great. If that cylinder takes 11's I'll change out the nipples so I can use 10's on everything.

Oh and if you guys need a fat old man for the movie...count me in.

[pohill]

"You wont see Mec in the middle of all these arguements on here but believe me he could set a few people straight in a hurry..."

I'm not looking to be right, or to be "set straight" by anyone, all I want is info - I'll pass on what I know, what I've learned, and believe me, I'll absorb new info like a sponge. If someone has useful info that might end arguments, then by all means bring it out.

[Remington kid]

OD, Strap on the Remingtons and come along! Maybe if we have enough people to write a western director or producer we can get them to make another good one.
I would like to see Clint come riding back in town at his age now and look at the bad guy with that little stogie hanging out of his mouth and say to old Ugly.....("I'M BACK) HA!! Lol.

[mec]

I think I look real pretty in this picture. Unfortunately I have to pick the pictures carefully. In real life, I look like Jack the Ripper looking for a straw hat in a urinal.

[Steve499]

Dragoon, I replaced the original nipples on my Pietta Remington with ampco nipples from Dixie yesterday. The old ones were becoming battered at the top, the hammer face not bearing squarely on them when it struck. I had been reluctant to try to change the angle on the hammer face due to the loss of the case hardening but after I put the new ones in I decided to go for it and found there WASN'T any case hardening! If there ever had been, it was so thin so as to be worthless. I was getting a few misfires as the old nipples deformed and left an angled anvil under the cap. The new nipples were supposed to be for #11 caps but # 10 Remingtons are a perfect fit. If I get the angle and length correct on the hammer face so it just touches the nipple with no cap on it, do you think the soft hammer will be much of a problem?
Mike, my Uberti Colt replica must be just right. I think the arbor bottoms out like George was talking about. I can put the wedge in with my thumb and stop pushing just as the tip is even on the other side, do the twist test you mentioned and get no play. A piece of paper between the barrel and cylinder can be pulled if it's already in there but you can't put one in. I can push the wedge on through as far as moderate thumb pressure will take it. The rounded tip is then protruding with the sides of the tip just even with the outside of the barrel. The paper will still pull with the same apparent resistance. I don't need anything to get it back out besides thumb pressure on the tip. It doesn't work loose from there when I shoot it. I understand how critical to accuracy the fit is and am really, really happy I lucked out like that. I agree with you, George, that a new gun should be RIGHT but that's often not the case. If the whole market for these things would start returning all the substandard junk that's being put out, maybe we'd see some improvement. I know I'll never buy ANYTHING from Palmetto again and I don't think MPP1423 will either, right, Kevin?

Steve