Pistol Grip Shotguns

[amd6547]

If you look hard enough on youtube, you will also see people hurt themselves with stocked shotguns and even handguns. Stupidity and improper technique can be dangerous.

[Dave McC]

Who said I can't perform, Southern Rebel?

In MD's old LE 3 gun league, I was HOA in 83 and 85. Runnerup in 84 to someone I taught.

Prior to that, I had to teach a few hundred COs to shoot folders from the hip. And I had to qualify over 90% on our course to remain a certified instructor. I did, but it took work I didn't need to do with a regular shotgun.

I've fired hundreds, maybe thousands of rounds from PG shotguns.

And folks that know me allow I hit most of what I shoot at.

Chances are I shoot rings around the average reader here and way better than the PGO fans.

Of course I'll never get to prove that since them guys just don't show up at the range.

Neither myself nor anyone else can shoot a PGO as well as a standard shotgun.

Why work with inferior equipment when the stakes are high?

[hogdogs]

Why work with inferior equipment when the stakes are high?

HERE HERE!!! And AMEN!!!
And a lesson on tactics from another "ol bull" who waits for the young bulls to run down the hill and run the fat off the heifers.

this is a true story and I learned a great deal from it...
'Twas about 1977 or '78 and I was on a summer truckin' trip with my dad. He had to lay over every weekend in Sanford Florida awaiting his weekly load of tropical plants. He would stay at the Days Inn which was about 4 or 5 floors... I was 9 or 10 at the time. He had given me a whoppin' 20 dollar bill to spend as I see fit for the weekend but the deal was "when yer broke... yer broke, don't ask for money." well first night in the motel I seen that cool elevator after we had been up the stairs to our room. I said "Daddy, why did we walk up the stairs if there is an elevator?" He said "'Cuz the elevator is SLOW." Well when we were heading down to go to pizza hut I head for the elevator and hit the \/ button... He said he would take the stairs... I said "RACE YA..." He said "Loser buys supper" I said "Yer on!" I get in and hit the "1" and door close buttons... Door opened at each floor and no one was there to get on... I get to ground level and he is standing there with arms folded waiting on me.... I was HOT!!! I said "What the heck?" Over the supper he made me pay for he simply said "Son, you gotta learn never to gamble on anything less than a sure thing... than it is an investment." He also added that... "You need to learn to hedge your bets" And... "If you find yourself in a fair fight you ain't cheating hard enuff..."
Now back to Dave McC's point I quoted... "Any Questions???"
Brent

[amd6547]

I am 52 and fired my first 22 at age 5. Been shooting rifles, handguns and shotguns ever since.
This is my final post on this subject, since it is getting repetitive.
1. No one claims that Pistol gripped shotguns are best as general use HD shotguns, best for hunting, best for skeet.
2. Pistol gripped shotguns have been used by pros for serious close quarters self defense.
3. If you don't feel the need to own one, or find that you are unable to perform with one within it's area of strength (close quarter combat, indoor SD), then don't own one.
Just don't insult those who take the time to practice with and master this weapon, and find that it fills a particular niche in their SD arsenal.

[Southern Rebel]

This is my final post on this subject, since it is getting repetitive.

+1 "Roger, over and out"

[Kmar40]

Why is it always some newbie who can (claim to) shoot just as well from the hip with a PGO? Now that I think about it, maybe it IS true for them.

You'd think they'd get the hint once they realize they are arguing against all the instructors and guys with extensive military or LE experience.

[hogdogs]

Kmar, IMHO, the standard full stock (not the english as I haven't tried one) is the most proficient for hip shooting as well as all other shooting positions...
Brent

[TxGun]

You do not shoot a PGO shotgun "from the hip" if you're seriously trying to hit your target, unless you are at very close... almost contact distance, or unless you don't know what the hell you're doing. At any extended distance, you hold the damn thing up and aim it. It's no great trick. As easy as a full-stocked gun? Uh, no. . I'd better say that again: Nope . And just be sure everyone truly understands: Negative (Get the mesage here?). Is it as versatile as a full-stocked gun? What do you think? (Spare me, I'm tired of doing the "rolleyes" thing). But good defensive accuracy out as far as 15-20 yards if you have good technique? Yeah. It's not hard to do if you 1) aren't recoil sensitive 2) don't have a physical impairment 3) practice a little. But like the man said earlier, if you don't like it, don't use it. That's pretty simple. OTOH, don't try to tell those who know they can hit what they shoot at with a PGO gun that (in effect), "no, you really can't. I don't know you, but I don't like 'em (or I read that some "pro" (LOL) doesn't like 'em) so I know you can't be very good with one". That's ridiculous. So why have a PGO gun? OK, let's suppose you don't like handguns and...mmm, you find it a little easier to slip a PGO SG into the hotel room, covertly, in your suitcase or travel bag when on a road trip. Maybe you find it a more convenient carry on your backpacking trips. Or, maybe you like to carry it behind your truck seat because 1) you want something a little less obvious and/or 2) you find it easier to manuever inside the vehicle. Or could be you live in a small apt. and have maintenance people in and out when you're not there...and the only real good hiding place just isn't quite big enough for a full-stocked gun. Or, a dozen other reasons. (Wait...I know, "just learn to like handguns!" Or, "just learn to deal with a longer stocked gun". Uh, yeah, OK.) Or hey, maybe said PGO fan just likes the dang thing and knows how to handle it...a sin, I know, and quite impossible, of course, but maybe that's just him and he's not that impressed with some guy on the internet telling him that he just doesn't "see the light". (Look, personally I realize that PGO shotguns should be banned, because... well, majority opinion says they are downright useless...but it looks like we have a few rebels here that are just too stubborn to listen to reason!). (That was sarcasm there...I want to be clear about that ).

Oh yeah, have I said I have exactly one dozen short-barreled defensive shotguns as of today...ONE of which is a PGO gun? I think I have. And that probably makes me a "PGO fanatic" in the opinion of some, LOL. I mean, c'mon...that's funny!

One last point. Make that a couple of questions....

Did anyone actually read this novel?

Just how dead does this horse have to be before we pronounce it deceased?

[koondawg]

I have these grips on my 870. I can shoot from normal position kinda like the you tube video only not near as close to my face. I also shoot from about halfway between my waist and shoulder using the surefire m6 laser/light for aiming. It works good for fast follow up shots. Once screwing around shootin skeet with it I tried it one handed and caught it by the forearm before it hit the ground, so i wouldnt recommend that way. Otherwise it the perfect gun for the bedside.

[Chuckusaret]

To become proficient with a PGO shotgun takes practice. I have a PGO Mossberg 500 and a Remington 870 with a buttstock and I have found the PGO is much better for HD because of the shorter length. I also shoot the PGO from about midway between my hip and shoulder with the same accuracy as the 870 up to 25 yards. Name of the game is practice and more practice.

[Dave_Shotgun]

I just bought a full-stock shotgun and I think that the stock is a little too long, so I'm thinking about cutting the stock down a little to make it more comfortable when shooting. Would that be a good idea?

[hogdogs]

Would that be a good idea?

CERTAINLY!!! A poor fit gun is painful as well as less accurately fired than one with proper fit. Is the stock wood or plastic? If plastic, you need to pull the butt plate, recoil pad off and look inside the usually hollow stock. You are making sure the "bosses" for butt plate/recoil pad screws are go deep enough to shorten it a bit. Another concern is that the factory butt piece may be shaped with a section that recesses into the hollow for a better fit. If so it will no longer fit the hole. The outside edges of the butt piece will also need shaved down as the butt end of the stock will be slightly smaller.
Before you cut it down, go to your local gun shop that deals in the higher end "sporting" guns as they have the know how and tools to properly pull a fit check and tell you your ideal length of pull so you don't cut too much off the stock. Too short is as bad as too long. For me it actually hurts my neck and upper back for days to fire a gun that forces me to srunch up to sight and fire.
Brent

[Dave_Shotgun]

Thanks for the helpful suggestions Brent. The stock is a plastic stock and it is hollow. I took off the recoil pad and saw that the stock is hollow inside and there is big bolt that looks to be holding the stock onto the gun.

[hogdogs]

To make a straight cut, Determine the amount you are losing and from the butt measure in and mark in MANY spots. then as you start make sure all the dots are connected before really cutting. Then I work all the way around with the saw to make sure I am cutting it true.

Was your butt pad grooved so some fit inside the hollow or is it totally flat?
Brent

[Kmar40]

I just bought a full-stock shotgun and I think that the stock is a little too long, so I'm thinking about cutting the stock down a little to make it more comfortable when shooting. Would that be a good idea?

I think it's a great idea. A short length of pull stock loses nothing to a PGO when moving in close quarters(the buttstock is basically either beside your body in the underarm assault position or up over your shoulder if you carry muzzle down), yet allows you to shoulder the weapon and point with far superior accuracy than a PGO.

[Dave_Shotgun]

Was your butt pad grooved so some fit inside the hollow or is it totally flat?

The butt pad is rubbery and it fit on top of the stock. It has 2 bolts that hold it on to it. I'll probably need a smaller pad though. I'm thinking about cutting it with a hacksaw and then sanding it to make it smooth.

[hogdogs]

Synthetic will easily cut with the hack saw and a razor knife at an angle will shave the burrs right off.
The pad can be trimmed to fit with a real coarse sand paper (or a bench grinder but be careful it don't get a grip and suck yer fingers in the wheel) and smoothed up with a finer paper... No need to look for a smaller pad. I don't know about now-a-days but in the past, there were not much variety as far as size of pad and you always had to trim it to fit your stock if it wasn't factory pad/ factory stock.
Brent

[buck9]

I bought one. Thought it was cool and it was. Took it out and shot it . Hit some and missed some. It is hard to aim for me from anywhere but eye level. I put a cheap 15$ laser on the barrel and now I hit dead center on the dot at twenty five feet.

[Dave_Shotgun]

I bought one. Thought it was cool and it was. Took it out and shot it . Hit some and missed some. It is hard to aim for me from anywhere but eye level. I put a cheap 15$ laser on the barrel and now I hit dead center on the dot at twenty five feet.

Glad to hear that your pistol grip and laser works well on your shotgun. I think having a shortened stock will be good for control and aiming, plus i can still shoot it like a pistol grip if I feel like. Best of both worlds.

[Dave_Shotgun]

I cut the stock down with my hacksaw. I just have to grind down the butt-pad so that it fits properly.

[BlackFeather]

it helps for a drive by and close "whites of the eye" shooting... but uh... you probably arent in Iraq or a "gangsta"

[hickok45]

Here's my take:

During the actual act of firing a shotgun, the pistol grip feels okay and gives plenty of control, I guess.

Every other time I'm handling, carrying, packing, moving, cleaning, etc., I hate the darn things. I had a nice one on my Super 90, but boy did I fall in love withy that gun again when I got the pistol grip off!

Just my opinion. Everybody has to come to their own conclusions.