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June 27, 2011, 01:54 PM | #1 | |
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Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 8,821
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A question about out-of-state sellers
I've been wondering about one particular type of transaction, and I have not been able to determine the answer. Let's say I go to a gun show, and there's an out-of-state FFL, selling a long gun, which he or she represents to be part of a private collection, rather than part of business stock. Would I have to go through an FFL to buy it? My gut reaction is: if the sale crosses state lines, transfer through an FFL is in order. However, I looked at 18 USC 922, and I'm not sure that's correct. For purposes of clarity:
1) I am not a prohibited person. 2) In Arkansas, basic long gun sales between two private parties (both Arkansas residents) over the the age of 18 requires no paperwork whatsoever. When I go to 18 USC 922, I get this: Quote:
I'm just not sure about (a)(5). I took a look at ATF regulations, and they simply track the statutory language. What I get from those souces looks like: 1) As between two private sellers who reside in different states, an FFL must be used. 2) As between an FFL and a private buyer, the buyer must reside in the same state as the FFL. Where it gets unclear is this: Is transfer paperwork required from an out-of-state FFL, physically present in Arkansas & selling out of his or her private collection? I'm not looking for a way around the law here. However, I'm trying to pin down the exact contours of this part of the law and I'd like to hear your opinions.
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June 27, 2011, 03:34 PM | #2 | ||
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Join Date: October 20, 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
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My understanding is that "private collection" FFL dealer sales are conducted under the same legal framework as a FTF sale between private individuals, i.e. both the transferor and transferee must reside in the same state, and all applicable state laws must be followed. However, since this topic isn't directly addressed in the statutes, I'll have to do a little research. Someone more familiar with the topic may be along at any moment.
Also, I'd like to correct you on one aspect of your post: Quote:
Quote:
IOW a licensed dealer is allowed to transfer rifles and shotguns (but not handguns!) to nonlicensees in other states provided the transaction is conducted face-to-face and all applicable state laws are followed. As an aside, the statutes are applied somewhat differently to a C&R licensee (aka licensed collector) when buying and selling C&R firearms.
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June 27, 2011, 03:52 PM | #3 | ||
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Join Date: July 7, 2008
Location: Upper midwest
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I see only two options here. Either a sale goes through an FFL, in which case the transfer paperwork is required, or it involves two private parties, in which case, no paperwork, but they need to reside in the same state.
I suppose a licensed dealer can, as it were, take off his FFL "hat" when selling a gun from his private collection -- in which case, he'd be subject to the same rules as any other private seller. I can't see how the fact that he's an FFL would exempt him from those rules. But in this case, he doesn't reside in your state. Quote:
Quote:
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June 27, 2011, 06:01 PM | #4 |
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Join Date: January 23, 2006
Location: Plano, Texas
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A licensed gun dealer can acquire firearms, but he cannot sell or transfer a firearm to anyone at a gun show in any other state. The ONLY exception is a transfer of a curio or relic to another FFL.
Here is the ATF "What you can do at a gun show" document:http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...i-5300-23a.pdf
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June 28, 2011, 08:20 AM | #5 |
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Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
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Thanks, everyone. Based on the statute quoted by carguychris and the fact sheet linked by dogtown tom, it looks like there may be some conflict of authorities here.
For my own peace of mind, I think I'll trust my gut, and avoid transactions that involve out-of-state FFLs selling from their "personal collection."
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June 28, 2011, 08:46 AM | #6 | |
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Join Date: October 20, 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
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Quote:
Under 18 USC § 922(b)(3), it is legal for a C&R licensee to conduct FTF sales of C&R long guns (and only C&R long guns!) to out-of-state nonlicensees if the transaction complies with state law. The reason is that there is no dividing line between a C&R licensee's business inventory and personal collection; the C&R license is, by definition, used exclusively for the licensee's personal collection. The sale must be recorded in the C&R licensee's logbook but no NICS check is required.
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June 29, 2011, 08:02 AM | #7 |
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Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
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Thank you, carguychris. Though I don't foresee buying any C&R items, that's good to know.
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